What about the Po-2?

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

To come back to the Ju 52:

It was profitable in a way that half of the work had already been doen for the ai Ju 52 included in BoS. As far as I'm aware devs even confirmed this in one of the Q&A when asked about why they decided for the Ju 52.

The 52 definetly isn't as popular as a fighter would be for instance, I guess we can agree on that. It's also not the most important aircraft in the series. But that does not mean that it's development was unprofitable or even unnessecary.

 

If money was all that matters they also shouldn't develop bombers because they take multiple times the effort of a single seat fighter aircraft while only flown by 10-15% (personal estimate) of the online comunity. As another big game shows, lots of fighters + micro payment options is the way to go if you look for a good profit.

[Monostripezebra]

A Po2 is a neat plane, but I given how the gameplay goes, I probably wouldn´t use it much at all... especially since the Ju-52 can allready land EVERYWHERE.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxST9gILxk4

 

and considering that the whole of the battle of stalingrad was about having an army encircled and besieged because of some "we can supply it by air" arrogance, the Ju52 and flying supplies into the city is about the major cause for the whole air battle then, anyways.. so, I can´t really understand how people can be all "realism!11!" and questioning the plane at the same time.. The Po2 on the other hand, sure you could have some nice fun flights and it was not completely unimportant, but then again there may be very well be more "central" planes to go with first for historic and gameplay reasons.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Monostripezebra

[busdriver]

5tuka you make a valid point, the Ju-52 model was already in the pipeline as an AI target. And yes having it in game adds to the atmosphere of the experience, as would an AI Po-2. I suspect that it (Ju-52) was indeed unprofitable in terms of the numbers sold versus the hours spent making it flyable. My experience with the gift licenses is the basis for my conclusion.

[manintan2016]

I hear what some of you say about the business aspect and sales, and others comment about the richness of the sim. All I am saying is that the Po-2 ( or Fi-156 ) would bring another historical aspect to the game other than flying around with your hair on fire and shooting everything that flew. As for the Ju-52, remember, this sim is about STALINGRAD, and including the aerial bridge to the encircled 6th Army was a nice historical touch.

[sinned]

Gambit21, since some argue money isnt everything, go buy 10 ju52 as gift at random and see how many actually use them.

 

Gather stats and show them to me to prove your point. I dont do that cuz there are so many of douchebags here. I would prefer to gift BOK as I have done so in the past.

 

 

When you read and analyze companies financials AND FORECAST on their sales trejectory for living with your career on line for 10+years, you gather a lot more by listening to words from heads of companies. Its a no brainer to me but for some, it isnt obviously.

 

Stop the nonsense and personal attacks about my logic. Stick to the point aboit ju52 history and this thread wanting po2. If you dont get my logic, go read again my threads. I do choose my words carefully as when i read carefully many of your posts with much interest.

[manintan2016]

Anybody and Everybody would argue about Anything and Everything! I would just like to see the Po-2 represented in the game for several reasons.......first, it could be used in all versions of the game (Moscow, Stalingrad, or Kuban ), and I thought it would add a historical, unaddressed aspect to the game. Other than that, it would be just plain fun flying around in an old string bag!

As an afterthought, think of the single player missions ( where most of us fly ).......Battlefield Ambulance, Artillery-Spotting, Observation......not to mention a Night Witches campaign!

[busdriver]

I hear what some of you say about the business aspect and sales, and others comment about the richness of the sim. All I am saying is that the Po-2 ( or Fi-156 ) would bring another historical aspect to the game other than flying around with your hair on fire and shooting everything that flew. As for the Ju-52, remember, this sim is about STALINGRAD, and including the aerial bridge to the encircled 6th Army was a nice historical touch.

 

I don't think any of us would argue against AI additions that add to the gaming experience. The AI Ju-52 is not just obvious for the Battle of Stalingrad, it's essential. I argue against the Devs diverting resources/hours to making flyable additions that appeal to an extremely small yet vocal fan base. 

[manintan2016]

Amen, Busdriver!

[Nil]

Consider the fact that the Ju52 has NOT a Russian counterpart,  this is his obvious weak point, because server makers get hard time to balance that because campaign is also about capturing airfield.

Capturing airfields, that is the new gameplay associated with flying transport, because wining a battle is not only about destroying ground or areal targets, it is also about taking airfields.

 

TxTip , the creator of Friday night Bomber Flight has to use Pe2 for supply as there is not Li2 or C47.

We have so much fun flying transports, doping paras, supplies, cooperate and taking airfields .

 

 

Back to the topic, yes the Po2 would be fantastic of course.

[Lusekofte]

I personally do nat share bus drivers opinion, his point of view lack vision and see only the pure fight and flight capabilities. It is always the little things , the details that make a game, any game really good. The story always consist of the little things around the main scene . 

It is the usage of JU 52 and russian counterpart that make the story believable , same goes for the stock and PO 2. 

To me anyway, if you want to spend your time dogfighting, you should ignore this point.

But I am sure of one thing, even those not aware of it right now, they will leave this sim if it only contained the plane majority wants, it gets boring in the long run, without the little things making the storyy

[busdriver]

I personally do nat share bus drivers opinion, his point of view lack vision and see only the pure fight and flight capabilities. It is always the little things , the details that make a game, any game really good. The story always consist of the little things around the main scene. 

 

Ah my friend it must be a language barrier. Because I agree that the little details make this game great. My favorite aspect of the game is flying just above the trees, popping up, rolling in to drop my bombs. I love the maps, the terrain, the stuff that populates the maps. As far as my lack of vision...I think the Devs are reluctant to make another flyable airplane with limited appeal airplane like the Po-2.

 

But I am sure of one thing, even those not aware of it right now, they will leave this sim if it only contained the plane majority wants, it gets boring in the long run, without the little things making the story

 

I suspect it will not surprise you that I disagree with your conclusion. The environment/atmosphere of the BoX franchise is without equal IMO, it has compelling content right now. Then include the prospects of the Pacific...simmers have lots of reason to hang around.

[Gambit21]

Respectfully, his conjecture is extremely logical to me. Does he have irrefutable proof (sales numbers for the Ju-52)? No. But I agree with his logic. I think the Po-2 would be a waste of time and effort, unless it's strictly an AI target.

He lacks even tenuous proof, never mind "irrefutable".

[Gambit21]

Oh and Busdriver I respect your opinion, and appreciate your mature posts.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the nature of or very existence of said "logic" above.

 

I'll have a friendly debate with an adult any day. 

[sinned]

"The AI Ju-52 is not just obvious for the Battle of Stalingrad, it's essential. I argue against the Devs diverting resources/hours to making flyable additions that appeal to an extremely small yet vocal fan base"

 

Precisely.

 

Also ppl need to buy the shit they asked for.

[Gambit21]

[Gambit21]

I personally do nat share bus drivers opinion, his point of view lack vision and see only the pure fight and flight capabilities. It is always the little things , the details that make a game, any game really good. The story always consist of the little things around the main scene . 

It is the usage of JU 52 and russian counterpart that make the story believable , same goes for the stock and PO 2. 

To me anyway, if you want to spend your time dogfighting, you should ignore this point.

But I am sure of one thing, even those not aware of it right now, they will leave this sim if it only contained the plane majority wants, it gets boring in the long run, without the little things making the storyy

 

The little things are indeed important, they add up to make a really great big thing.

 

In the end the Devs will do what they need to do in order to stay in business, and I respect that.

It could very well be that the Ju52 sales don't warrant another similar aircraft - but only the Devs know one way or the other.

 

.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

An important Point to Discuss when talking about Po-2s and Ju-52s and Storchs are Ground Physics, since these are probably the most important Points for any Bushflyer. 

The Possibility to safely Take-Off and Land on an unprepared, unnkown Out-Landing Field is extremely Important to Glider Pilots and Bushcrafters alike and some general Rules apply. 

 

As a Glider Pilot you will normally look and decide inbetween 

• Light Brown Fields, since a Light Brown indicates a Dry, Firm and Flat Surface. 
• Next Best are Waving Yellow Crop Fields. These Tend to be a slightly Less known Quantity, generally less Flat but Still Safe. Yellow Crops also Break away easily and don't grip the Surface like Grass Does. 
• Dark Brown, or very Lightly Green which indicates Soft Surface and/or Mud, highly uneven and Soft Surface
• Green, which can be a very Mixed Bag. High and Wet Grass is very Dangerous and can lead to Vicious and Destructive Ground Loops when it gets hold of a Wingtip. Green also Indicates Life-Stock and Bad Surface. Green Fields also Hide Obstacles like Fences. 
• Farm Tracks which are either very Good or absolutely Catastrophic, because of Fencing, Ditches, Telegraph Poles, Potholes etc. 

(My Least Pleasurable Aviation Experience was a Launch Failure at 20m which forced me to Touch Down in the Unprepared Wilderness between Winch and Launch Field in High, Uncut, Wet Grass Did a 120° Ground Loop. Was my first ever Start in a Twin Astir (the First of 2 so far) and I properly Banged my Head into the Canopy Framing.)

 

 

50 Shades of Brown:

 

 

 

 

Oh, and Blue Fields, wich are not Fields at all but massive Bodies of Water. Makes the Job of your Recovery quite hard and cost you not one but Several Cases of Beer, as well as Dinners. 

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Nil]

You are perfectly right Klaus Mann, off field capability should be modeled.

 

 that appeal to an extremely small yet vocal fan base. 

 

We do not know how much "small" is the fan base. We could say the same for the bomber fan base, yet, we have manies bombers in this sim.

Moreover, back to old IL2 days, people thought the same about making bombers like Stuka and Heinkell 111(before they became flyable), so it proves nothing.

 

Sinned has no real logic so to speak - nothing but conjecture.

and opinions. We need sales statistics here, not opinions.

Edited March 12, 2017 by 1./TG1_Nil

[HR_Tumu]

I asked about collector planes sales.  ( Questions for Dev ).... but the answer was;  only Jason can tell us.

 

[sinned]

These denials get quite sad.

 

Must be the guilt for asking for a dumbfound product.

[CUJO_1970]

I would say that right now the developers are focused on their goals and nothing is going to break their stride - not the PO-2 or any other aircraft - until after Kuban is 100% complete.

 

Ultimately I don't think the decision to model something like the PO-2 will be based on the projected sales of an individual aircraft. It will be based on how the series as a whole is selling.

[BlitzPig_EL]

After BoK is released I doubt there will be any time for Eastern Front additions of any kind till well after Battle of Midway (or whatever it will be called) is released.

 

There are simply too many totally new aircraft, ships, and game engine fixes (carrier landing physics, ship AI behavior, sea state and weather, just to name a few) to be done.

 

Remember, we are going to the Pacific next in an effort to generate MORE SALES.   This should tell you something about the over all economic state of the sim so far.

 

Battle of Midway is Jason's "Hail Mary" play to save this title.  That much is obvious to me, and it should be obvious to any thinking adult who understands how economies, either personal , or corporate, work.

Edited March 12, 2017 by BlitzPig_EL

[busdriver]

We do not know how much "small" is the fan base. We could say the same for the bomber fan base, yet, we have manies bombers in this sim.

Moreover, back to old IL2 days, people thought the same about making bombers like Stuka and Heinkell 111(before they became flyable), so it proves nothing.

 

My friend, my characterization of "small" fan base for the Ju-52 or Po-2 is an estimate. How small is small? I estimate less than half of all BoX owners, and my sense is it's probably less than 20% of all owners. I also agree that you could say the bomber fan base is small. Estimates are not offered as proof, merely support for my opinion.

 

To be honest, if flyable bombers (excluding the Bf-110) were an add-on costing the same as the Ju-52, I would not buy them. I don't fly them. But if B-25s or Mosquitos were a "for pay" add-on option, I'd throw money at them. So I do understand your reference to bomber fan base, and acknowledge my bomber preferences are a niche of the genre.

 

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I think I have been a decent supporter of the franchise like you, and plan to continue to support them. I would be happy for you guys if the Devs decided to add the Po-2 and Fi-156. But if their decision to add them is driven by potential sales of those particular airplanes, I think they will be disappointed with the results. Bottom line: I suspect most guys will be like me and decline to purchase those airplanes.

Edited March 12, 2017 by busdriver

[Finkeren]

Ultimately I don't think the decision to model something like the PO-2 will be based on the projected sales of an individual aircraft. It will be based on how the series as a whole is selling.

I hope you're right, because the sim as a whole seems to be on an upwards curve, which (hopefully) will translate into increased sales compared to BoM.

[Nil]

My friend, my characterization of "small" fan base for the Ju-52 or Po-2 is an estimate. How small is small? I estimate less than half of all BoX owners, and my sense is it's probably less than 20% of all owners. I also agree that you could say the bomber fan base is small. Estimates are not offered as proof, merely support for my opinion.

 

To be honest, if flyable bombers (excluding the Bf-110) were an add-on costing the same as the Ju-52, I would not buy them. I don't fly them. But if B-25s or Mosquitos were a "for pay" add-on option, I'd throw money at them. So I do understand your reference to bomber fan base, and acknowledge my bomber preferences are a niche of the genre.

 

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I think I have been a decent supporter of the franchise like you, and plan to continue to support them. I would be happy for you guys if the Devs decided to add the Po-2 and Fi-156. But if their decision to add them is driven by potential sales of those particular airplanes, I think they will be disappointed with the results. Bottom line: I suspect most guys will be like me and decline to purchase those airplanes.

Dear Friend Busdriver, maybe the dev team goal when they are creating a collector plane is not to sell it to everybody. 

I mean far from everybody can buy a collector plane simply because they have not enough money, or they believe it is more interesting to buy "battle of" because they get much more content for each dollar spent.

Also, pilots have their own preference in terms of plane type. 

 

Personally, I buy whatever dev team release even if I do not use it, because I really love how they are doing things.

 

The thing is that before releasing a Po2, I hope they will release a C47 or Li2 (A c47 would also serve the pacific theater)

Tactical Air War just went online again, and some people including myself are enjoying flying Tante Ju to resupply Airfields. NO PLANE can do that better than a transport plane.

 

 

The fact the some gift receiver did not opened your Ju52 gift is sad, It seems that some people get free things  just because they are free, not because they have an interested in it.

[sinned]

"maybe the dev team goal when they are creating a collector plane is not to sell it to everybody"

 

STOP.

 

I can understand this kind of thinking is a soothing mental justification for those to lift guilt for Ju52, but it helps no one.

 

Producer of this series, Jason asked (prior to Ju5w

2 launch) "EVERYONE NEEDS TO BUY WHAT WE OFFER".

How is that not clear to anyone?

 

If you want to end the series, go ahead with this line of thinking.

[Pail]

Ok. I bought the bus...

 

Can we have a Po 2 now.

 

...and I still reckon a FW 189 would be more popular than an Fi 156....

[BlitzPig_EL]

 

...and I still reckon a FW 189 would be more popular than an Fi 156....

 

I agree 100% with this.  Far more useful, and you will live longer in it too.

 

As to the Po 2, it would be cool, but because of the limitations of this, or any computer sim, your options are limited and your survival will be even more limited.  I would think an I-153 would be the better choice as it can be used effectively in multiple roles,

and will be far easier to implement into missions with the current game meta, either on or off line, as a player flyable aircraft.

Edited March 13, 2017 by BlitzPig_EL

[Scojo]

A fighter will sell better than a transport, yes.

 

However adding a variety of planes, in spite of their individual sales performance, could be a long term investment with good benefit, no?

 

What's more fun and likely to get you to buy a combat flight sim; one with just specific fighters/bombers, or one with a large variety of planes and targets? The latter appeals to me because it creates an experience and a simulation and not just a game. This is exactly why I love IL-2 so much compared to other CFS.

 

The JU-52 isn't some useless irrelevant filler either. It gives new flight experience and also adds to the environment as it was historically a very significant aircraft. However at the very least, I've enjoyed seeing them and even shooting them down or on the ground in game and they have added improved atmosphere to the wonderful experience that is IL-2.

[hames123]

Well, the Ju 52 had to be added, without it, Battle of Stalingrad just would not be Battle of Stalingrad.

[Finkeren]

Well, the Ju 52 had to be added, without it, Battle of Stalingrad just would not be Battle of Stalingrad.

By that logic, pretty much any Eastern Front battle up until late 1944 wouldn't be the same without the Po-2. The Po-2 was everywhere and played many crucial roles on every front, and there were 4-5 times as many of them as there were Ju 52s

[GrendelsDad]

Gents, it is not difficult to infer.

 

If actual sales of Ju52 is in par with 1CGS reception of initial forum demand, we wont be even having this conversation.

There would have been an announcement about vvs side transportation plane?

 

Now, tell me, with Ju52 pre-order AND actual release date well behind us, is there an upcoming announcement?

 

Except that they have a strict schedule...if you notice the JU52 came about at the END of the production of IL2 BOM. So I can infer that they will add planes if they find time.

 

Has there been an announcement?

 

Hopefully someone at cgs prove me wrong?

 

Finding someone to fly Ju52 together is a joke.

[Scojo]

Isn't there a unit dedicated to the 52? They have a heavy presence on FNBF. They also take to the skies a good bit on TAW.

 

Of course it'll be less flown than fighters and bombers. That doesn't mean it's doing poorly considering what kind of aircraft it is.

[hames123]

By that logic, pretty much any Eastern Front battle up until late 1944 wouldn't be the same without the Po-2. The Po-2 was everywhere and played many crucial roles on every front, and there were 4-5 times as many of them as there were Ju 52s

I would like to see the PO-2, but what you said is not logical. The Ju52 is needed because it shaped the air war over Stalingrad dramtically once the pocket was established. While I would like to see the PO-2, they never really shaped a air battle or campaign, working mainly in the background. Thus, it would be hard to release them linked to a title. However, I would love to see them in, with crazy night attack missions, package delivery and messenger mission.

[Gambit21]

Fink means that the Po-2 was ubiquitous in the theater, to a much greater extent than the Ju-52.

His statement is completely logical.

 

Many pivotal, not to mention simply important or essential things happen "in the background"

Edited March 21, 2017 by Gambit21

[Juri_JS]

I doubt the developers will spend any time and money on the Po-2 and similar planes, but I think the Po-2 could be the perfect plane for a 3rd party community project. We have a number of people in the community who have the necessary modelling knowledge. In the past some of them have created planes and cockpits for Il-2 1946 - among others a cockpit and reworked model for the U-2/Po-2.

[Gambit21]

The developers keep all things aircraft related close to the vest - I don't think that's going to change any time soon. Given what's involved I completely understand this stance. Modeling, while indeed a skill that a few of us are more than capable, is a small part of the process.

 

These devs knock models out FAST too - it's the other stuff, flight model, LOD's etc that take the real time, and we can't help with that anyway.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Gambit21

[Scojo]

Don't forget research and proper testing

[Gambit21]

Well I didn't think I had to type an exhaustive list - point is, it's an extensive grind in which modeling is a small part.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Gambit21

[Scojo]

Don't forget all of the coffee runs and funny email chains needed to keep morale high