Do plane controls seem a little nervous?

[=AVG=Zombie]

Sorry, my apologies....

[ST_ami7b5]

It's funny how many virtual/real pilots are arguing here instead of using the last available day of this series to fly BoS.

Tomorrow they will complain BoS server is not open...

  

[=AVG=Zombie]

Can not play at work, but I can post!!!!

[BraveSirRobin]

bongo, have you posted a video of the problem that you're seeing? (this question does not in any way imply that you are not having, or have not had in the past, an actual problem)

[SYN_Jedders]

...with this 32% built game, you mean

 

Mind you, if it is only effecting some ppl and not others then is it a game bug?, or a hardware issue for some....I don't know tbh, but I do get the notion that I might be getting what is described, mind you, I must have been getting it in RoF aswell for years and not realised it as a bug. I would love to understand if it is an actual issue or not....guess Im not gonna find out in this thread tho

[DD_bongodriver]

bongo, have you posted a video of the problem that you're seeing? (this question does not in any way imply that you are not having, or have not had in the past, an actual problem)

 

 

I haven't but a video has been posted showing the same problem.

[Sternjaeger]

For what my opinion is worth, I agree that the behaviour described is a bit weird if very strong, but it would be interesting to see the intensity of this and how it reacts to different sorts of input. I guess that before reaching any definitive conclusion it might be worth agreeing on what the behaviour should be like first, then run some empirical tests and see where/if there is a problem.

[AndyJWest]

Looking into this some more, I've discovered that despite configuring my elevator dead zones to zero, there is still an appreciable dead zone in the centre. Clearly this is only going to affect aim if I'm not giving significant elevator input at the time, and I've generally tended to start my aim low, so I can line up laterally via roll/yaw, and then pull for vertical alignment. The result is that I don't have problems with the dead zone that way. If other people have the 'dead zone' issue, it may explain why some people are having more problems, than others. It will depend on your aiming style, how you trim the plane, and ultimately whether you are aiming with the stick near its neutral position.

 

It may be that the 'dead zone' issue is a problem is with my Joystick (a Saitek ST290 Pro that has seen better days), rather than with BoS, but it is something to consider.

 

I should also make it clear that I'm not saying that I never have 'wobble' problems: I do sometimes, usually when trying for a rapid close-up snap shot. But these are the situations where I tend to overcontrol anyway. It may be that a better shot than me (of which I'm sure there are many) may notice an issue in such circumstances, whereas I'm not going to be able to distinguish it from my usual cack-handedness.

Edited December 16, 2013 by AndyJWest

[303_Kwiatek]

I played with the sensitivity and deadzones for a couple of hours now and it is really not very fun with all of the bouncing around, for those of you who have figured out how to get the planes to fly smooth take a screen shot of your settings would ya. Iv'e got a x52 pro and have been flying in sims forever, and yes i fly ROF occasionaly too so I understand it should be close to the same dynamics, but it's not for ME............ seems maybe it is something with the x52 joysticks? just a thought.

 

These is not joystick or contol problem. People whoes i know ( some RL pilots too) which all have different hardware ( different sticks) have the same impression about BOS planes behave in the air - i mean springing noses etc.

 

So these is not joystick or settings problem just it is how BOS flight model engine work and how planes behave in the "air" here.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Kwiatek

[J4SCrisZeri]

well, I have spent a few more hours on BOS and I have to confirm my first impression. Plane is horribly difficult to dominate. Not only it wobbles and shakes (that could be realistic) but the feeling of control over it is something I really dislike.

Plane rotates and pivots easily on its baricenter, the stall looks always behind the corner.

Since Im a founder I can't even think "I will just leave it on the shelf" , the game is already mine

But if FM doesn't change from alpha to gold, loving it and using it will be quite difficult for me.

It's different, I don't know where, but very different, considering I always have been playing Il2-1946 and CLoD with the same hardware/joystick and without any problem like this.

[Rama]

Last 2 pages of topic are now cleaned from most personal (and useless) stuff.

Please keep it on track.... and stop all the personal griefs (or do it in PM).

 

I just remember that's the second time I clean this thread.... That amnesy saved a couple of bans.

I will not allways forget what I said....

[EAF19_Swoop]

I felt while flying the 109 that I was as light as a feather, almost floating about on the air and very ROF in a light weight plane. This was very pronounced in the cross wind scenario. The Lagg feels like flying a brick. which is likely right and is the same in Il2. IMHO the 109 needs to feel heavier when slow so you can feel the controls better and tone down the default Rudder. I'm sure these are just placeholder FMs and will get refined further along so I'm not to worried, but worth raising.  

 

I'm using a MSFF2 and CH throttle and Rudder. 

[T6-ADStukadriver]

Man...it seems like every aircraft simulation game I have used/played has had a forum "discussion" like this. Those people who are satisfied with bobbing around in the sky with an aircraft that seems to lack stability should be able to leave their model inputs alone...but those who are dissatisfied with the erratic jumping around of the flight model should have some means of being able to apply better controls or stability to their model. What is wrong with that? It does look like the majority of forum posters are not happy with the jumpiness of the models. I am one of them. And I HAVE flown combat manuvers in propeller driven aircraft and own a military aircraft replica in which I have done all sorts of flight manuvers...high speed and low...and I have to say that SO FAR the flight characteristics of these models are not stable enough to replicate actual combat manuvers. Sure...you can say that wind has something to do with it and all of that, but it seems to me that the purpose of a "GAME" - no matter how realistic you want it to be...it is still a game...is to have the user happy with the GAME. No one buys a software game to get frustrated by it.  I am sure the developers and their programmers want to make the majority of owners/buyers happy...so I think they can read and comprehend that a lot of people are not happy with the current model characteristics and will try to do something about it. If the program is only about 35% complete, I think they have done an admirable job thus far. But if you want the "real thing"... get your pilot's license and fly some military trainers. Nothing compares to real a##pucker.

[Wind]

Being one of the unfortunate that have not flied yet, I basically have about zilch to say about the flight modellings.

So, I wont comment anything about that part...duh.

 

But.I have checked out about all the aviable vids, and what strikes me, in those clips, is the seeming lack

of mass/inertia and the percieved high lateral/long instability of the planes.

All the movements would seem to be logical if there the objects would have very little mass and/or there would be no

aerodynamic forces on the airframe, ia vacuum.

All the movements happen fast, too fast.

 

Like the redirection of movements, especially roll, happen almost instantly, like no drag/mass would be applied.

Watching the AI fly, for example in this 71st Mastiffs video, http://youtu.be/M0_AzSA4UVc , the roll movements are just too

fast, like the center of gravity would be in the airframe (duh) but wings would have no mass or would not be affected

by lift,drag, or general air resistance.

 

Pitch seems to have a bit the same charasteristics, but in the vids it does not seem as pronounced as roll.

I (think) can understand what people are trying to tell though, the 2 vids Quax posted, especially the 2G vid,

seem like there the plane dont slip enough in turns and the lateral stability is acting weird.

Like, the physics engine seems to think that the main gravitational pull is in the direction of the airframes "underside"

, regardless of what position the airframe in, thus trying to correct pitch angle too agressively.

As said, things are looking goddamn good,loving it, but, movements in the videos just seem just too quick and Mass free.

 

Dunno, maybe I should just shut up and write a nice letter to satan claus to get my rig couple of months earlier so I could test it...

[VBF-12_Snake9]

I use and owned a x52 for many years, and played the many sims that we all have played.  The x52 has a spring centering stick, meaning the spring always pulls the stick back to the center.  Other high end sticks is like pushing the stick through sand, meaning you can push the stick forward and leave it there hands off.  The former sticks I think are better equipped to fly BOS in it's present stage of no trim.  It is very difficult to hold the x52 stick 45 degrees forward just to fly level and then have to make tiny corrections to aim all while the centering spring is pulling the stick back to the center.  Now when the plane is trimmed out accordingly, tiny corrections are easy to make because the stick is already in the center.  Trim has always been very important when aiming with the x52, and the lack of it is causing major aiming problems for me.  Even in ROF we could use control response curves to "trim" the plane to fly straight and level with no input from our sticks.  So in my opinion this is not going to get better for me until we have trim placed into the game.  I know the 777 team is working on coding the trim, so things will get better, but right now lack of trim is no fun for this x52 user. 

[DD_bongodriver]

the 109 has trim in game, it's the horizontal stabilizer in setup, the 109 uses a moving tailplane instead of trim tabs.

[VBF-12_Snake9]

Humm, will have to try next time.  Thanks.  If that's the case I hope both the horizontal stabilizer and the elevator trim can be mapped to the same axis to keep things from being repetitive. 

[DD_bongodriver]

they can be mapped to the same axis, it will show as a conflict in the setup menu (it does in mine) but still works for the stabilizer, so I can't see why it wouldn't work when trim is finally implemented.

[Rama]

Ok, enough...

Post reports will be examined and appropriate actions taken.