Fw 190A-5 vs Yak-1b

[Gambit21]

 

 

A good Yak pilot will simply evade all your shots, buying time for others VVS arrive on the scene and finish the poor focker.

He can't evade what he never saw coming.

[Finkeren]

 

 

A good Yak pilot will simply evade all your shots, buying time for others VVS arrive on the scene and finish the poor focker.

The same can be said for any fighter that can either maneuver to any degree or run away from a pursuer.

 

In fact, the Fw 190 has it easier, because it can run and actively draw the enemy towards his comrades, he doesn't have to wait.

[III/JG2Gustav05]

 

 

I don't know if there is a typo in the specs or this is a modeling error (or maybe even done on purpose) but the safe limit is not 3 mins, at least not in practical terms. This is very different to how it's modeled in the Daimler-Benz engined planes, where breakdown will occur within seconds of crossing the limit.

 

 

[Blutaar]

In practical terms its unrealistic, 1-3 mins is nothing that any sane person would allow to use in a combat plane if that means after that amount of time your engine could disintegrate at least what i think.

 

They would simply do what the did before, just restrict the use of overboost like we see in the 109G2 or how it was on the 190A4 or was it the A5 early idk and dosent matter, what matters is its not realistic and will hurt us later in the timeline from a simulation point of view.

[Roo5ter]

In practical terms its unrealistic, 1-3 mins is nothing that any sane person would allow to use in a combat plane

Disagree, but maybe I am just not sane.  If I am in a difficult situation where engine power is the best answer to escape or survive, I use it with only minor regard for the engine.

 

If you get shot down, where do you think that engine goes?

[Blutaar]

It goes the same way as when you use max engine output, into the ground and thats the problem if you ask me.

 

I  have to apologise for my insult, really i dont wanna offend anyone i will look at what words and how i use them more carefully, english is not my native language but in my language it dosent sound that better to be honest im sorry.

 

I better stop complaining and do more playing, no need to make enemys in this community i for the most part like so much and hopefully one day play online with/against.

[Roo5ter]

I  have to apologise for my insult

No really, I'm probably not sane.

[Finkeren]

In practical terms its unrealistic, 1-3 mins is nothing that any sane person would allow to use in a combat plane if that means after that amount of time your engine could disintegrate at least what i think.

 

They would simply do what the did before, just restrict the use of overboost like we see in the 109G2 or how it was on the 190A4 or was it the A5 early idk and dosent matter, what matters is its not realistic and will hurt us later in the timeline from a simulation point of view.

I'm no big fan of the way engine limits are implemented, but even the ridiculous 1min timeframe on the 109s has its uses. It can be used for 2-3 very short (10-15sec) bursts of extra accelleration at the start of a pursuit or right after a maneuver that drained a lot of energy.

 

The 5-6mins in the Fw 190 is pretty damn useful though.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

 

A good Yak pilot will simply evade all your shots, buying time for others VVS arrive on the scene and finish the poor focker.

To contrary there is much bigger chance that next plane which arrive will be yak enemy. Smart blue when he loose advantage will run or run then climb.

[Lusekofte]

 

 

I'm no big fan of the way engine limits are implemented

 

This and many other easy solutions have turned off quite a bit of my interest in this game. Look at the P 40 among other.

After flying since the beginning you can almost tell the outcome of any engagement with initial manoeuvre by your opponent. Personally I will not fly public in any fighter until I find one of interest and with a new rig with best resolution screen.

Because in many cases it is the one with smoothest software that wins. In my case t-racjkIr acting up in dense environment

[A_radek]

 

The A3 does 560 km/h on the deck with no overheating issues. The A5 does about the same with cowl flaps fully open, 575 km/h with 20% open (which is the best you can hope to do without overheating) and 580 km/h with flaps closed. Try beating that in an La-5F.

 

Little late but just did.

 

Moscow autumn, about 175m height, 100% fuel. After lot's of caressing I got a steady 546 without any overheat. Meaning it will do that til fuel runs out. Not that bad for a porky wooden crate. Not sure what to use if for though.

[Finkeren]

 

Little late but just did.

 

Moscow autumn, about 175m height, 100% fuel. After lot's of caressing I got a steady 546 without any overheat. Meaning it will do that til fuel runs out. Not that bad for a porky wooden crate. Not sure what to use if for though.

No not bad, and the early La-5F is on its way to becoming a very effective fighter, but the people who claim, that the La-5 is the fastest aircraft on the deck in this sim have no idea, what they're talking about.

[216th_Jordan]

No not bad, and the early La-5F is on its way to becoming a very effective fighter, but the people who claim, that the La-5 is the fastest aircraft on the deck in this sim have no idea, what they're talking about.

 

Well except for the FW-190 it is

[A_radek]

Well except for the FW-190 it is

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but already at a 1000 meter height the F4 will keep up or be slightly faster at full power. Tried to use the La5 as a low alt missile last night. Full speed slashing through those low altitude fur balls that always seem to form near target areas. My gunnery skills were more of a problem than plane performance. But felt it's biggest let down in this role was it's rearward visibility. Could not determine if it was a 109 or 190 spraying bullets after me. At least not without turning sharp enough to loose the small speed advantage I would have to a 109. Against a 190 on the other hand I'm sure it could hold it's own in a dogfight down on the deck.

[Finkeren]

Against a 190 on the other hand I'm sure it could hold it's own in a dogfight down on the deck.

 

It probably could, and I've seen it done, but it takes a lot of skill to fly the La-5 effectively (almost as much as took for the Fw 190 before the FM revision). The La-5 is not an easy plane to fly under any circumstances, the Fw 190 now is (as it should be). I now fly the Fw 190 a lot in MP, and I generally view La-5s as easy pickings.

 

That's not to say, that there is anything wrong with the La-5, it clearly has a lot going for it, but it just lacks that extra bit of oomph, that made it a great fighter in its later incarnations.

[DD_Arthur]

Skillfully flown La-5 on the deck?  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp_6OC1Qq-s

 

Phew!  It only took five of us to shoot this guy down

[Finkeren]

Skillfully flown La-5 on the deck?  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp_6OC1Qq-s

 

Phew!  It only took five of us to shoot this guy down

 

He seemed to fly it fine enough on the defensive, but really take a look at the video: You never had a problem getting a shooting solution, you were flying close to 100 km/h faster than him most of the time, you had no trouble pulling a lead on him. You did exactly what you should and kept your 190s speed up, which allowed you to outfly him at every turn.

[StG2_Manfred]

He seemed to fly it fine enough on the defensive, but really take a look at the video: You never had a problem getting a shooting solution, you were flying close to 100 km/h faster than him most of the time, you had no trouble pulling a lead on him. You did exactly what you should and kept your 190s speed up, which allowed you to outfly him at every turn.

 

When the Focke pulled a lead on him? Between 1:20 and 1:30 the La pilot even is able to pull completely inside of him and the rest of the time the La pilot fights with other planes, which provides the Fw pilot the firing solutions.

[Finkeren]

When the Focke pulled a lead on him? Between 1:20 and 1:30 the La pilot even is able to pull completely inside of him and the rest of the time the La pilot fights with other planes, which provides the Fw pilot the firing solutions.

Well, of course the La-5 was turning inside of the 190, because it was going much slower, so naturally his turning radius is going to be smaller.

 

By "pulling" a lead I'm not talking about outturning your opponent. I'm talking about that little extra pull on the stick, you do to line up a deflection shot, something that was very hard to do in the 190 prior to 2.007 without staling. You can see it be done at around 1:15, where the La-5 is clearly out-turning him but he has plenty of energy to pull up sharply to line up a deflection shot lead.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Finkeren

[StG2_Manfred]

It's the only situation and still not enough lead to fire and hit. You make it sound that the Focke was dominating this fight, but the La pilot is concentrating most of the time on other planes which gaves the Focke pilot the firing solutions. 

 

And yes, of course, with the old FM (prior 2.007) the Focke performed worse than now. I'm not denying that.

[Roo5ter]

Opinion:  La-5 is the most underrated aircraft in this game.

Fact:  La-5 has about the same power as the FW but is signifcantly lighter.   Also pretty reasonable to say it has that power longer than the FW at sea level especially with the M82F modification.  

My tactic for fighting a FW 1v1 in the La-5 - Drag to the deck and do your best to burn his energy with some regard for your own.  You can recover energy quite easily at sea level in the La-5 where the FW has some level of difficulty in doing so due to the higher weight.  

[Finkeren]

Opinion: La-5 is the most underrated aircraft in this game.

 

Fact: La-5 has about the same power as the FW but is signifcantly lighter. Also pretty reasonable to say it has that power longer than the FW at sea level especially with the M82F modification.

 

My tactic for fighting a FW 1v1 in the La-5 - Drag to the deck and do your best to burn his energy with some regard for your own. You can recover energy quite easily at sea level in the La-5 where the FW has some level of difficulty in doing so due to the higher weight.

Nothing wrong with that statement, and I deeply admire the ppl who can fly the La-5 to its strengths.

 

Personally I find the La-5 very hard to fight in. I think it primarilly comes down to three factors:

 

1. I'm a crap pilot, and the La-5 is just a demanding aircraft to fly, especially with regards to engine management.

 

2. Even though the La-5 has good acceleration at low speeds, the accelleration becomes abysmal at higher speeds, making it seem slower in a fight than it actually is and makes it hard to keep it at the speed where it performs best.

 

3. The La-5 bleeds a lot of energy when maneuvering, making it very easy to end up low-and-slow.

[Lusekofte]

I have yet to see the plane catching me in full speed in a FW 190, through out all patches it is the fastest plane I ever tried in this sim

[Roo5ter]

I feel like the engine management for the La-5 is some of the easiest.  I dont even have to worry about water which makes it simple.
Obviously you shouldnt be using the La-5 at high speed.  You might not have the tightest turn radius but you can hold a turn a lot longer than other aircraft that are heavier and don't have your massive boosted engine power. 
 

[Gambit21]

Shouldn't be using the La5 at high speed? I would think quite the opposite. Elaborate.

[Willy__]

I think he misstyped.

[Roo5ter]

Let me rephrase that, I don't really want to fight in high speed engagements with the Germans.  I would RATHER burn out energy than deal with FW at high speed where they are strongest.  FW are freaking everywhere now but who can blame the pilots?  Fantastic aircraft.

[Gambit21]

Ahh...I wasn't challenging, just curious.

I die against even the AI letting my speed drop in that thing.

[Roo5ter]

It's a pretty versatile aircraft that has a number of strengths.  Definitely room for different pilots to use it in a number of ways.  Against 109s I often spend a majority of the fight with the engine wound out.  They aren't particularly easy to catch until they start doing less than subtle climbs or turns.  Getting dragged behind one for any sort of time is risky with the poor rear vis of the La-5 and FW appearing out of nowhere.

[gnomechompsky]

The La-5 isn't great.  Poor visibility and speed on the deck isn't particularly useful.  No matter how fast you go on the deck you aren't going to outrun a boom & zoomer.  

[CUJO_1970]

Being on the deck just delays the inevitable...just like tight turns simply means your going to die tired.

 

Working through a complete HDD crash which happened right after the latest patch (back up and currently d/l windows updates) so...haven't really had a chance to run the A-5 through her paces.

 

I won't be fighting on the deck with it, that's for sure...other than ambushes, traps and bounces that is. I don't run after Russian fighters on the deck for long and they usually don't follow me at altitude for long.

[CUJO_1970]

Best advice I can give Russian pilots: Use energy tactics and fight in the vertical + with a wing-man. Fly as fast as you possibly can.

 

Use your free time climbing; your best fighting altitude is medium altitude, before 2nd gear change on FW-190.

 

And remember: 2 FW-190 vs. 4 Yaks = advantage FW-190.

[JG13_opcode]

Strongly disagree.

 

All 4 of those yaks have a better climb rate than the 190. Whichever two aren't under attack are free to climb and develop an energy advantage

[Original_Uwe]

Except the 190's can disengage at will, reset, and attack when they wish.

[Finkeren]

Agree with opcode.

 

The Fw 190 is formidable, overall a better fighter than the Yaks, but it is not the greatest for fighting multiple opponents. That's a job for the 109. When outnumbered, climb rate becomes the most important factor, because you have to stay on top to be safe.

Except the 190's can disengage at will, reset, and attack when they wish.

The difference is, that simply running away allows your opponents to disengage as well.

 

Staying on top of the fight means you can pick off anyone who tries to leave, and that's where the 109 excells.

[JtD]

If you're in the faster plane, you can not only disengage, but also re-engage. Your opponent only has a small say in when the fight ends. The Problem with this particular set-up is the climb rate of the Yak, which will allow it to vertically disengage. Which essentially means both Fw and Yak have an option to disengage from the fight, even though pushing the nose down is certainly safer than raising it, in particular against multiple opponents.

 

Imho, in terms of flight performance the Fw190A-3 and Yak-1S69 are very close, and so are the Fw190A-5 and Yak-1S127. What really makes the difference is one vs. four 20mm cannons. That doesn't turn the Fw190 into a superior fighter, but it does turn it into a superior killer.

[Finkeren]

Vertical disengagement > horizontal disengagement, especially against multiple opponents. You can attack again much faster and with more control of the situation from an altitude advantage than from a speed advantage.

[Finkeren]

Imho, in terms of flight performance the Fw190A-3 and Yak-1S69 are very close, and so are the Fw190A-5 and Yak-1S127. What really makes the difference is one vs. four 20mm cannons. That doesn't turn the Fw190 into a superior fighter, but it does turn it into a superior killer.

In terms of pure performance it's a very interesting match-up.

The Fw 190 has the speed, end acceleration, dive performance, weight of fire, maneuverability at high speeds and roll rate.

 

The Yak has the sustained turn rate, low speed handling, climb rate, initial acceleration, field of vision (the Yak-1B) and is more forgiving to mistakes.

 

Basically, if the air speed of the engagement can be kept high, it's advantage Fw 190, otherwise it's advantage Yak. In any engagement above 4000m the Fw 190 is at a clear advantage.

 

However, the Fw 190 has a lot of "extra" benefits, that IMHO makes it much better than the Yak: It's an extremely stable gun platform - hardly any shaking at all, it is very easy to fly without bleeding unnecessary energy, it's got very simple controls and it's overall slightly sturdier.

[A_radek]

More online testing and this thing (la-5) is changing the game for me.

 

I realized like mentioned here before, It's deck top speed is not something you can rely on for safety. But that coupled with it's roll rate is magic. Twice, with surprising ease, I could shake a 109 diving on me. Without needing to bleed much speed. One must have cut his throttle not to, the other overshot through my yoyo straight in to my sights. Perhaps I was lucky to meet pilots as untalented as me but that yakB is right now a hangar queen.

 

The two 20 are a much bigger upgrade over yak armament than I thought they would be.

 

Finkerens fw190 trick to trim for a very shallow dive is very effective with the la5 as well. Thanks Fink! While a shallow climb will kill it's speed.

 

It needs a lot of downtrim once going. This also increases top speed a little.

 

It seems to prefer winter maps, more so than the other planes I've given some time. Perhaps that's the nature of air cooling. Need to properly test this as it's only a strong feeling I have now.

 

Rearward visibility is crap. But it is good enough to effectively keep track of the attacker while scissoring/yoyo:ing.

 

Landing is tricky!

 

Roo5ter named this the games most underrated aircraft. A +1 on that.

 

@Cujo1970, do you have a more specific alt for fw second gear change?

 

@opcode, apologies for derailing from the fw/yak subject.

[JG13_opcode]

Except the 190's can disengage at will, reset, and attack when they wish.

I agree, but that doesn't mean 2x 190 have the advantage over 4x yak-1