Impressions of post-2.008 AI

[Dakpilot]

Not entirely relevant but an interesting AI development nonetheless, at least the developers are happy and feel it is some sort of a breakthrough...

 

http://en.blitzkrieg.com/news/aiboris

 

whether this 'neural AI' developed by Nival Interactive could have any relevance to flight sim/BoS or if it is solely for their internal use I do not know

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I just wanted to thank everyone who participated in this thread and provided a little insight on the new AI behavior.

 

I haven't had much time to fly lately and whatever game time I have had I've been dedicating to Stalker COP with the Misery mod.

 

Thanks again guys. 

 

(Don't forget to cheeki yourself before you breeki yourself.)

Edited March 13, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[Bando]

@SG: Me too, love it. 1.0d fix 2 with AO.

Tarkov is also promising to become some new gem in the genre. there the scavs (bandits) also scream cheeky breeky. Made me smile for a while when I first heard them say that.

[Scojo]

I got to fly some more Shturmovik missions in PWCG yesterday and it just reaffirmed my previous opinion that the AI changes must have done the trick.

 

My flight encountered 4 stukas with 109 escort. I took some shots at a passing stuka because it didn't deviate me too much from our flight plan. Upon doing so, one of the 109s engaged me for it while the others pecked at my allies. Once I pulled off of the stuka and it got away, the 109 quit attacking me and rejoined the stuka.

 

I've been enjoying SP so much lately that I haven't touched MP but twice this past week.

[gnomechompsky]

It's definitely better but unfortunately the sniper AI is still there. I wouldn't mind if it was just on Ace difficulty but even normal will hit you at crazy deflections.

[Scojo]

It's definitely better but unfortunately the sniper AI is still there. I wouldn't mind if it was just on Ace difficulty but even normal will hit you at crazy deflections.

In my P-40 campaign, I actually haven't gotten into any dogfighting. When I do, I'll try to keep an eye out on this or just test it out in QMB

[Scojo]

So I noticed what you were saying about the AI gunnery, gnome. I guess I hadn't noticed it before because I've always been at an advantage on contact or been in an IL-2.

 

In my P-40 last night, I found myself in a disadvantage where a 109 turned into me with a high deflection shot. He fired a short burst and my engine, gun, and control rods were all taken out. I don't know the AI experience level, but even vets online don't fire that few rounds for that much effect lol

[BlitzPig_EL]

Well, "they" are computers after all, and moreover, "they" are part of the game engine itself.

 

"They" know everything about your location speed, etc.

 

All hail the robot ace overlords.

[Scojo]

Well, "they" are computers after all, and moreover, "they" are part of the game engine itself.

 

"They" know everything about your location speed, etc.

 

All hail the robot ace overlords.

Obviously.

 

But what that implies is that the AI may not have the appropriate probability of error that they should in various actions such as turning, aiming, trigger time, etc...

 

Speaking in reference to the different levels, novice, ace, etc...

 

That's ok if it's an Ace AI, but not if it were a novice or normal.

 

Even if testing shows that the levels of AI are skewed as far as their actual "skill", I don't expect any fix for a long while though as the team is focused on other matters.

[novicebutdeadly]

I haven't really noticed too much in QMB, other than the YAK 1B AI in the initial head on really going for gold (I have the combat set to 1000M in ALT, I usually duck down to gain speed, so the AI dives down to try to get a shot in, seen a few end up crashing into the ground    ) and being a fairly good marksman.

[Pail]

seen a few end up crashing into the ground

 

Yeah the AI seems to be a bit more aggressive (or suicidal) when it comes to getting a shot on you near the ground. The friendly AI also seems a bit more aggressive without any consideration for whether you are in the

 

way or not.

 

I'm not sure but it seems like the AIs ability to correct shots that are misses has improved....too much maybe ? Many times you see an enemy that tracks and hits continually despite fairly aggressive evasive

 

maneuvres....and crashes into the ground (if it is low level fighting).

 

....General combat behaviour is better and I am seeing friendlies attack ground targets more readily....which is good.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Pail

[FlyingNutcase]

Not entirely relevant but an interesting AI development nonetheless, at least the developers are happy and feel it is some sort of a breakthrough...

 

http://en.blitzkrieg.com/news/aiboris

 

whether this 'neural AI' developed by Nival Interactive could have any relevance to flight sim/BoS or if it is solely for their internal use I do not know

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Thanks for posting this Dak. It's great to see that a true "neural" AI is apparently proving itself in a modern game. This is where I really and truly hope IL2's AI will get to rather than the manual decision tree approach that's apparently currently used. 

 

An interesting quote from the Blitzkreig 3 website: "We gave him only the basic tactical moves, but during his training he invented a variety of strategies. He makes decisions just like a talented military leader. It has become difficult to predict his actions now, and, most importantly, to distinguish them from human behavior."

 

"We can no longer distinguish his actions from human behavior." Oh how I long for those days, and that's when coops will be king - a focused group of real players for social engagement with realistic AI flights, not the generally furball multiplayer that things end up as now. Flight sim utopia, especially if there were realistic AI voice comms from friendlies. 

 

[Of course AI represented realistically at each skill level, not every AI being Eric Hartman etc. ]

[gnomechompsky]

I'm not sure but it seems like the AIs ability to correct shots that are misses has improved....too much maybe ? Many times you see an enemy that tracks and hits continually despite fairly aggressive evasive

 

maneuvres....and crashes into the ground (if it is low level

I don't know I think the accuracy of the AI (fighter planes not turrets) has always been insanely high. As other people have said they frequently pull off shots at deflections that just aren't normally possible even at lower difficulties. But now we are seeing improvements it would be nice to see this tackled. Edited March 17, 2017 by gnomechompsky

[Scojo]

I don't know I think the accuracy of the AI (fighter planes not turrets) has always been insanely high. As other people have said they frequently pull off shots at deflections that just aren't normally possible even at lower difficulties. But now we are seeing improvements it would be nice to see this tackled.

I don't think it's improved. I think now that the other problems for AI are out of the way with the changes, that's the next AI issue in line that's fairly noticeable.

 

Priority 1 problem always makes priority 2 problem less noticeable, and then when it's removed priority 2 problem becomes the priority 1 problem, so it's more noticeable.

 

This is why a product is never "finished", instead we simply move toward a point at which fixing the next problem involves more work than the benefit having it fixed gives.

 

ROI determines when you hit a stopping point, basically.

[Pail]

I was wondering if the ability of the AI to target others that are not the player has been achieved by increased aggression to the closest target.

 

Maybe that explains what I was trying to say, better.

 

In that way the AI is mimicking human behaviour....just not he human behaviour we want.

 

Seeing the friendly AI do the "Mine! Mine!..." all after the one target... (sometimes colliding)

 

...and I wish they wouldn't keep chasing burning planes to steal my kills. Some things I have noticed may also be quirks of PWCG (or mucking around with its settings).

[Albino]

I played the 'Last Strength' mission in the City Assault part of the Stalingrad part 1 campaign last night. My Yak escort failed to takeoff so my flight of Laggs could only make a brief pass on He-111s over the city before having to head home.

 

I was surprised and dissapointed. I had thought this issue was resolved some time ago.

 

Regards

 

Albino

[Thad]

Perhaps you took of too quickly for the rest of your flight. Were the other Yaks actually part of your flight or a different designated flight?

 

I read elsewhere that one needs to give the rest of your flight time to get to the runway for takeoff before the player actually departs.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Thad

[Albino]

Perhaps you took of too quickly for the rest of your flight. Were the other Yaks actually part of your flight or a different designated flight?

 

I read elsewhere that one needs to give the rest of your flight time to get to the runway for takeoff before the player actually departs.

 

 

I've made that mistake before

 

The Yaks were a separate flight. Mine was comprised of Laggs. In this mission both flights start on the runway.

[seafireliv]

Really? That's a real shame.

Agreed. AI is hugely important in my view.

[hames123]

I think that the ground attacker AI is more important and more difficult to code. It has to be able to calculate when it is in a good position to take snap shots at tanks and trucks, and when to do that huge loop and then return to the target.