Game version 2.008 discussion: He 111 H-16, Fw 190 A-5, La-5 with M-82F

[StG77_Kondor]

The new 190A5 is a Schlachtflieger's dream. I sure hope the team plans to revisist East/West after Pacific. The U-17 mod just leaves me wanting for an F-8. 

[I./JG1_Baron]

Nice update. Im not sure, but i have feel that Fw-190A3 is less stabile and have worst maneuverability like before. Its only mine feel or do you have anyone the similar experience?

Edited March 1, 2017 by I./JG1_Baron

[Blutaar]

Interesting, i feel a significant difference between A3 and A5, the A3 is much more agile and i need not that much of stickpressure like in the A5, the A5 feels unresponsive and the trim at 0° is off too.

I dont know but i think the A5 moved more to the old FM, maybe its just me, lets see if there are other people who think the same.

[LukeFF]

 

 

maybe its just me

 

 

Yes

[Missionbug]

Thank you very much to all involved in this latest update, really appreciated.

 

Wishing you all the very best, P  ete.

[Zappatime]

Please, contact to our support https://il2sturmovik.com/support/

It is now working correctly, I can access the map ok.

[Blutaar]

 

 

Yes

 

But you feel the difference between A3 and A5?

I need to know seriously because it could be something on my end which is off.

Or do you just say its all feelings?

Edited March 1, 2017 by Ishtaru

[Otto_bann]

...i have feel that Fw-190A3 is less stabile and have worst maneuverability like before...

Me too... It seems to me something has been modified

Edited March 1, 2017 by Otto_bann

[Thad]

muhahahah

I couldn't have expressed it better. LOL.

[KpaxBos]

Me too... It seems to me something has been modified

 

 

I have the impression that since this update, we see less well the long range planes !

 

Nice update. Im not sure, but i have feel that Fw-190A3 is less stabile and have worst maneuverability like before. Its only mine feel or do you have anyone the similar experience?

same feeling here

[Thad]

First of all thanks for remembering the 9K+GS   It was very noble and now it will live forever.

 

 

 

Second of all I think I have a new cause for the SJW around the world: The prejudice against bombers.

 

I know most people like flying fighters, the market ask for it and the company needs money. But next time try to be more attentive with the "heavies".

Maybe a different view on resource approach and time table could have squeezed a few more mods for the 111 H16. 

 

After all people don´t like flying bombers because is it really boring or not made interesting enough ??

 

I hope in the future we can have some kind of paid mod expasion pack or any other measure to correct some injustices.

 

The only funny side is that bombers are so rare on line right now that enemy fighters usually dont know how to approach and attack one.

Salutations,

 

It is my humble opinion that players shy away from flying bombers because without some escort fighters they will most likely be easily shot out of the sky. They are big and slow and not well armed.

[Finkeren]

Honestly sounds like the usual post-update placebo effect.

[Blutaar]

same feeling here

Hmm more and more say they feel a change in the A3, i feel a difference too but not on the A3, its the A5 that feels worse, i need to look at my settings but what should have changed because i tested both planes in this update.

I need more info, maybe i should reinstall the game to be sure.

So my question is, does anyone feel kind of a bigger difference between the A3 and A5?

I mean mainly the stickpressure/travel, it just feels different and the snapstall comes earlier then before but as a much larger deflection of the stick.

Also the blackout is more difficult to reach for me, fells like i cant build up as much Gs as in the A3.

[StG77_Kondor]

The A5 feels fine for me. I think the different sensation for some is the change in CoG from the A3. 

[LLv24_Zami]

I did not notice any difference in A3 behaviour last night compared to the 2.007.

[fergal69]

Great work as usual guys.

 

Thanks to all involved.

 

Looking forward to HS129

Edited March 1, 2017 by fergal69

[Blutaar]

The A5 feels fine for me. I think the different sensation for some is the change in CoG from the A3. 

To counter the shift in CoG they mounted the engine a bit further so they should not be any difference in flightcaracteristics i think, its just 71kg heavier then the A3, less then the 2 MGFF/M option has and this does not feel any different if i have those equiped or not, just a slight speed decrease.

At nominal power the A5 needs to be trimmed 1° to the nose instead of 0°, is that how it should be, has anyone an idea, im just curios?

Edited March 1, 2017 by Ishtaru

[Asgar]

 

 

To counter the shift in CoG they mounted the engine a bit further so

 

 

they didn't "counter" the CoG shift by moving the engine forward, they moved the engine to create the CoG shift

[Irgendjemand]

anyone please how do i activate fuel injection with U17 mod in A5? Simply flooring it doesnt seem to do the trick

[216th_Jordan]

boost switch, same as in La-5.

Edited March 1, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[Finkeren]

anyone please how do i activate fuel injection with U17 mod in A5? Simply flooring it doesnt seem to do the trick

The same boost button that's used in the Shvetzov-engined planes.

 

The C3 injection only works, if you are at 100% throttle and below 1000m altitude.

[Blutaar]

 

 

they didn't "counter" the CoG shift by moving the engine forward, they moved the engine to create the CoG shift

 

I allways thought the CoG shifted because of the added weight and they just countered that by adding 15cm between cockpit and engine and because of the tendencie to have more/bigger weapons in the future, guess i was wrong, thx for pointing out.

So it could explain why the neutral trim has changed 1°, i assume the CoG with standard config is shifted to the back because i have to trim nose down?

What other negative effect has a off center CoG besides a new trim setting?

Edited March 1, 2017 by Ishtaru

[Irgendjemand]

thanks guys

[C6_lefuneste]

thanks for the AI work devs!!

 

+1.

Work on AI was a prerequisite for me to purchase  BoK.The devs are working on it, so I just purchased BoK...

[Asgar]

I allways thought the CoG shifted because of the added weight and they just countered that by adding 15cm between cockpit and engine and because of the tendencie to have more/bigger weapons in the future, guess i was wrong, thx for pointing out.

So it could explain why the neutral trim has changed 1°, i assume the CoG with standard config is shifted to the back because i have to trim nose down?

What other negative effect has a off center CoG besides a new trim setting?

it has a positive effect. the A-5 can carry bigger payloads. that's why the shifted the CoG in the first place. At least that's what my sources say

 

 

edit: i'm gonna enjoy flying her during the Winter!

Edited March 1, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[RAY-EU]

Thanks very good , but are mising the Mortar rocket Grw21 ! & still jettison flamable deposits !

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-674-7772-13A%2C_Flugzeug_Focke-Wulf_Fw_190%2C_Bewaffnung.jpg

Edited March 1, 2017 by RAY-EU

[Gl-l0st]

thus its low flow which in itself is a vacuum effect, read carefully "Vacuum effect"..which to me is almost a vacuum.. low pressure just like a Tornado. high pressure under the wing low pressure over the wing.

 

and you read it wrong, the title above those pictures say incorrect theory did you even read it? go read the NASA papers. there is a link.

 

here a much better explanation for you simpler mind. https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/UEET/StudentSite/dynamicsofflight.html#wings

 

yea, I see I reversed the low and high, sorry I'm not an english major; like some of you smarty pants out there, that like to boast your intelligence. I'm just a simple Correctional Officer you guys like to refer to us as knuckle dragging guards.I have a passion for another life as a wannabe pilot. and its a hobbie I like to learn ever since my little buddy gave me a right seat tour in a Cessna 172RG, I have been hooked on flight, I can not get my pilot license as I have had a sever injury from my job to my lower back, which was fused L5-S1. so I'm not medically cleared to fly.

 

 

vacuum effect..

 

flow1.jpg

WOW get all personal calling me smarty pants who likes to boast intelligence, and your a simple Correction Office well poor you. I didn't criticize you if you would take the time to read what I typed. You now type into the diagram, under the airfoil section "vacuum effect" to try make it more misleading or are you still not understanding what I typed?

Please just a simple apology would be nice Mastiff, and your not the only one in the world with a serious injury and even if you were that gives you somehow the right to lambast?

[Dutchvdm]

Could You guys show Fw190A-5 skins?

 

I only had time to make screenshots of one.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope i have time to do the others Sunday.

 

Grt M

Edited March 2, 2017 by I./ZG1_Martijnvdm

[Tuninfogliato]

Good morning to all pilots.
I would like to ask a question about pathc 2,008.
FW 190 A5 and HE 11:00 16 planes are available to fly in the campaign BOM and BOS. I ave purchase the Kuban campaign but in the campaigns mentioned above are not available, are flyable only in Quik mission.
Thank you

[Finkeren]

Good morning to all pilots.

I would like to ask a question about pathc 2,008.

FW 190 A5 and HE 11:00 16 planes are available to fly in the campaign BOM and BOS. I ave purchase the Kuban campaign but in the campaigns mentioned above are not available, are flyable only in Quik mission.

Thank you

That's because the Kuban campaign has not been released yet.

[[DBS]Prody]

i like the new Heinkel, good job guys .

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

For some reason the He 111 H-16 Normalmap (under graphics/planes/He111H16/Textures) is only 256x256 px in size. No idea if this issue was due to patchday or if it really went past the tester team without notice (which I can hardly imagine as it's glarilngly obvious that sth isn't right when looking at the aircraft in skin viewer).

[Yogiflight]

Hi Tuninfogliato, they are not in the BOS and BOM campaign, simply, because they were not yet in duty at that times.

[Scojo]

Hmm more and more say they feel a change in the A3, i feel a difference too but not on the A3, its the A5 that feels worse, i need to look at my settings but what should have changed because i tested both planes in this update.

I need more info, maybe i should reinstall the game to be sure.

So my question is, does anyone feel kind of a bigger difference between the A3 and A5?

I mean mainly the stickpressure/travel, it just feels different and the snapstall comes earlier then before but as a much larger deflection of the stick.

Also the blackout is more difficult to reach for me, fells like i cant build up as much Gs as in the A3.

Do you mean earlier as in time wise or airspeed wise? I'm pretty sure a heavier plane will stall quicker than a lighter one..

 

Also, you can't exactly expect a different model of plane to fly the same as an older one. Plus, one of the changes in the A5 is more armor. That would negatively affect flight characteristics

[unreasonable]

Do you mean earlier as in time wise or airspeed wise? I'm pretty sure a heavier plane will stall quicker than a lighter one..

 

Also, you can't exactly expect a different model of plane to fly the same as an older one. Plus, one of the changes in the A5 is more armor. That would negatively affect flight characteristics

 

At minimum T/O weight the A5 is only 70kg heavier than the A3 in the same condition. Given that both aircraft could be carrying over 1,000kg in fuel and armaments, the intrinsic weight change is fairly small. Pluck any random A3 and A5 out of the sky and there is a significant probability that the A3 will be much heavier.

 

Comparing like with like, the In game Tech Specs give level minimum stall speeds at 166-189 kph for A3, vs 169-195 kph for A5, depending on the weight conditions. At minimum T/O weight this is almost imperceptible, fully loaded it is just about material: the only effect is to make sure you have plenty of speed before lift off. But again this mostly down to the extra load the A5 can carry.

 

Matching the speeds and weights and calculating CLmax shows that they are (almost) the same, the difference possibly being rounding error in the speed measurements. The critical angle of attack is the same in each: 19.5 degrees, so the limitation on yanking the stick in a sudden turn is to all intents and purposes the same. 

 

All in all it looks highly unlikely that there is any significant difference in the FMs apart from the power production, and effects from the variable cooling mechanism.  Perhaps the CG change has some subtle effects. Generally I would hazard that effects caused by changing weight over the course of a mission would be much greater than any caused by fundamental differences between the two types.

Edited March 2, 2017 by unreasonable

[Scojo]

At minimum T/O weight the A5 is only 70kg heavier than the A3 in the same condition. Given that both aircraft could be carrying over 1,000kg in fuel and armaments, the intrinsic weight change is fairly small. Pluck any random A3 and A5 out of the sky and there is a significant probability that the A3 will be much heavier.

 

Comparing like with like, the In game Tech Specs give level minimum stall speeds at 166-189 kph for A3, vs 169-195 kph for A5, depending on the weight conditions. At minimum T/O weight this is almost imperceptible, fully loaded it is just about material: the only effect is to make sure you have plenty of speed before lift off. But again this mostly down to the extra load the A5 can carry.

 

Matching the speeds and weights and calculating CLmax shows that they are (almost) the same, the difference possibly being rounding error in the speed measurements. The critical angle of attack is the same in each: 19.5 degrees, so the limitation on yanking the stick in a sudden turn is to all intents and purposes the same. 

 

All in all it looks highly unlikely that there is any significant difference in the FMs apart from the power production, and effects from the variable cooling mechanism.  Perhaps the CG change has some subtle effects. Generally I would hazard that effects caused by changing weight over the course of a mission would be much greater than any caused by fundamental differences between the two types.

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation. If there is a problem, I hope we get it worked out

 

I will say though, there don't seem to be any glaring bugs so far with the new aircraft, so that's awesome

 

I got to fly both of the new aircraft a little yesterday and I'll be excited to use them more when missions are released for them or they go multiplayer

[Blitzen]

 I notice that there has been a modification in how the AI enemy aircraft prioritize their target.In the past it has been generally the players aircraft .I've had plenty of experience being chased all the way home by 3 or 4 Migs even tho they had plenty of my team mates to pick on nearby  & vice versa..Has anyone played long enough since the new version to notice the change or how much of a difference it has made.I know there is a separate thread going on this subject but thought this might be a better place to ask...

[Blutaar]

Dont get me wrong, i like the A5 a lot but it is the difference in responsiveness that i have a problem with, what causes the difference in handling, sure its havier but its just 71kg, it weighs nearly half of that what the 2xMGFF/M modification brings and it absolutely makes no difference for me in flight if i have these installed or not, i just cant feel a difference, not on the A3 and also not on the A5, but on the A5 i can feel a difference in agility and responsivness = more sticktravel and overall less capable of pulling a blackout.

 

I cant pull as much gs as like in the A3 and i need much more sticktravel, what causes this, first i thought ok, if the CoG shifted it explains the different neutral trim setting but im not sure if a shifted CoG has a negative effect on the amount of sticktravel and overall agility, for me i can feel a clear difference between A3 and A5, the question for me is why?

 

I am no expert but i know there are a few people here who knows a lot and im thankful for them and hope some can give me an answer, what bogs me is why am i the only one who feel that difference, there are more people thinking the A3 got worse but noone who talks about the worse flightcharacteristics of the A5 compared to the A3, maybe im not the only one but then people maybe thinking it is because of a new model and dont bother but that A5 was just an upgarde like the Yak1b which feels much better then the Yak1, not on the A5, it feels clearly worse for me then the A3 so in the end it has more speed but everything other is worse.

 

I never read about performance differences in flightcharacteristics between the different FWs only greater speed and firepower is mentioned but overall the FWs are portrait as very maneuverable and high speedish, maybe i miss something so pls help me out, before i forget i just mean the standard fighter config not some Jabo or insaenly heavy loadouts, we are talking about 71kg in this case, dont forget that.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Ishtaru

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I cant pull as much gs as like in the A3 and i need much more sticktravel, what causes this, first i thought ok, if the CoG shifted it explains the different neutral trim setting but im not sure if a shifted CoG has a negative effect on the amount of sticktravel and overall agility, for me i can feel a clear difference between A3 and A5, the question for me is why?

Moving the CoG forward increases flight stability, thus reduces manouvrebility (manouvrebility is nothing more than intendet unstability). So your observation pretty much matches with the effects expected from a forward CoG shift, you need more stick travel / force to make the aircraft change it's flight attitude to a certain degree compared to the A-3.

 

Since I don't have the aircraft I can't comment on the extent of the effect described by you, but the noticeable difference sounds realistic.

[Blutaar]

Thx for your answer, so this explains that a shift in CoG have also a negative effect.

 

Another question is, when i need to trim nose down, does it mean the CoG has shifted to the back and not to the front like you explained?

And are there any sources that talks about the difference in stability between A3 and A5 caused of the CoG shift or is that just self explanatory and dont need be mentioned?

To be honest, i didnt read that much manuals about the different FWs.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Ishtaru