Tactics

[EZ-PICKINS]

Now here this...WW2 pilots dropped their landing gear and lowered their flaps to decrease their speed quickly to engage slower enemy air craft long enough to tare them to pieces.

 

[Original_Uwe]

Cool story bra.

[Gambit21]

[Fern]

[curiousGamblerr]

tare

 

 

I used to work in a fastener warehouse during college summer breaks. We would buy hundreds of thousands of nuts, bolts and screws and sell them in smaller numbers to local manufacturers and the like. We would count the thousands of screws by weight. I remember the tare button fondly...

Edited February 24, 2017 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Only a few random eyewitness and pilot accounts..

No no real proof or evidence (witnesses and pilots can't be trusted)

I used to work in a fastener warehouse during college summer breaks. We would buy hundreds of thousands of nuts, bolts and screws and sell them in smaller numbers to local manufacturers and the like. We would count the thousands of screws by weight. I remember the tare button fondly...

hahaha nice

[19//Moach]

[JG13_opcode]

what is even happening in this thread i dont even

[curiousGamblerr]

 

0:06 "Just hold them off for a few seconds... trees!" <-- you Moach 

what is even happening in this thread i dont even

 

magic

Edited February 24, 2017 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

No need to ask if someone is a fighter pilot...they'll be sure to tell you.

[pilotpierre]

I used to work in a fastener warehouse during college summer breaks. We would buy hundreds of thousands of nuts, bolts and screws and sell them in smaller numbers to local manufacturers and the like. We would count the thousands of screws by weight. I remember the tare button fondly...

Tare very muchly for that information. Although methinks its somewhat kinky to think fondly of a tare button. Did you eventually outgrow this fondness?

[Feathered_IV]

Now here this...WW2 pilots dropped their landing gear and lowered their flaps to decrease their speed quickly to engage slower enemy air craft long enough to tare them to pieces.

I think that's just a tall story made up by Stuka crews and female pilots.

[Finkeren]

I think that's just a tall story made up by Stuka crews and female pilots.

Hey! My avatar takes offense to that!

[JG4_dingsda]

It might be possible to smuggle a few cranes in here.

[Finkeren]

It might be possible to smuggle a few cranes in here.

I'm on it.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Finkeren

[JG4_dingsda]

 

 

I'm on it. https://dofbasen.dk/...tianAJensen.jpg

 

gnihihi.

[Dakpilot]

Obvious bias, you are portraying a RED crested crane

 

 

It is only fair that the BLUE crane is also represented

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Finkeren]

I don't think it's a coincidence, that the blue crane is lone-wolfing, while the red crested ones are working in pairs.

[Wulf]

I have a distinct memory that my father once told me, many years ago, that 190s would drop their flaps on occasions to try and avoid an overshoot when attacking Beauforts.

 

Years later the subject came up again in some conversation or other and I repeated his observation back to him.  He just laughed and asked me who had told me that.  When I said he had he just grinned and looked away.  I still have no idea if there's any truth to the notion.

[Dakpilot]

I don't think it's a coincidence, that the blue crane is lone-wolfing, while the red crested ones are working in pairs.

 

And there you have it ! 

 

 

Red crested crane flying in unhistoric 'finger five' formation

 

is this Cheating in MP? 

 

 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Feathered_IV]

Back on topic please

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii16skT_0xg

[Scojo]

Wouldn't bringing your landing gear down at the same time damage them?

[Dakpilot]

During operation Cerberus/Operation Donnerkeil  (The Channel Dash) it is reported that 109's and 190's dropped wheels and flaps in an attempt to slow down and deal with Swordfish torpedo bombers which they were repeatedly overshooting, apparently they were a harder target than expected, however they were all shot down and those that were able to launch their torpedoes missed the targets

 

Cheers Dkpilot

[Scojo]

It seems like if something is flying so slowly, you can just attack through the target similarly to strafing and wouldn't need to slow down, especially if you have multiple planes there to attack the target. I guess that's only true though if there aren't a large number of them to attack

[Riderocket]

What about the fast landing tactic where pilots didn't use their gear or flaps because they broke them earlier while flying around?

[Scojo]

What about the fast crash landing tactic where pilots didn't use their gear or flaps because they broke them earlier while flying around?

[Wulf]

It seems like if something is flying so slowly, you can just attack through the target similarly to strafing and wouldn't need to slow down, especially if you have multiple planes there to attack the target. I guess that's only true though if there aren't a large number of them to attack

 

 

The exception of course would be torpedo bombers as they flew about 60-80 feet off the deck.  Booming and zooming such targets would be difficult as you obviously wouldn't be able to fly through the formation without impacting the sea.  In such circumstances it may well have been preferable to attack from a 6 o'clock position at slow speed using your cannons to out-range the defensive fire from the bombers. 

[PatrickAWlson]

I have a distinct memory that my father once told me, many years ago, that 190s would drop their flaps on occasions to try and avoid an overshoot when attacking Beauforts.

 

Years later the subject came up again in some conversation or other and I repeated his observation back to him.  He just laughed and asked me who had told me that.  When I said he had he just grinned and looked away.  I still have no idea if there's any truth to the notion.

 

The only time I have heard of that tactic being used was during the channel dash, and the targets were Swordfish biplanes.  

[Aap]

The only time I have heard of that tactic being used was during the channel dash, and the targets were Swordfish biplanes.

 

I think the most famous pilot to use that tactic was Hans-Joachim Marseille in Africa. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by II./JG77_Kemp

[purK]

Apologies for the wall of text, but here's a nice read.

 

"When I started to close and fire, I noticed that his plane seemed to have stopped in the air.  I had to decide whether to shoot and run, or to try to stop my plane.  I cut throttle, lowered flaps, and dropped my wheels - I still kept closing.  I had to fishtail and do flat weaves to stay behind him.  This maneuver was repeated three times, and on one occasion I almost cut his tail off, we were so close..."

Full account:

From JG 26 - Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, by Donald L. Caldwell (Ivy Books, New York 1991), ISBN 0-8041-1050-6 (First Ballentine Edition, June 1993), at page 276:

[The following occurred on the afternoon of September 17, 1944 - the first day of Operation Market-Garden]:

The Third Gruppe [of JG26] also fought a battle with Mustangs, with ruinous consequences for itself.  In mid-afternoon, Major Mietusch assembled about fifteen Bf 109s of his scattered command and headed for the landing zones, climbing all the way.  The weather had taken a turn for the worse, and there was a continuous layer of thin cloud at 15,000 feet.  The Germans climbed through it, and then, while above the Dutch-German border, Mietusch spotted a squadron of P-51s below them.  He radioed, “Otter Mietusch, I am attacking!” and dove through the cloud.  His first burst of fire destroyed the Number 4 plane of the trailing cover flight.  Oblt. Schild hit the Number 2 Mustang’s drop tank, and it dove away trailing a solid sheet of flame.  The events of the next few minutes are best stated in the words of the leader of that P-51 flight, Lt. William Beyer of the 361st Fighter Group’s 376th Squadron:

*          *          *

I was the flight leader at the tail end of the squadron.  We had flown back and forth between checkpoints for a couple of hours.  My wingmen apparently got tired of looking around for enemy aircraft.  Only by the grace of God did I happen to look behind us at that particular moment, because in no more than a couple of seconds the enemy would have shot the whole flight down.

I saw about fifteen German fighters closing fast with all their guns firing.  I immediately broke 180 degrees and called out the enemy attack.  My Number 4 man went down in flames, and my wingman got hit and spun out.  I headed straight back into the German fighters and went through the whole group, just about in the center of them.  We were separated by only a few feet...

I immediately made another 180-degree turn, picked out one of them, and started to chase it.  The rest of the fighters zoomed back up into the clouds and disappeared.  We made many violent high-G maneuvers with wide open throttle.  When I started to close and fire, I noticed that his plane seemed to have stopped in the air.  I had to decide whether to shoot and run, or to try to stop my plane.  I cut throttle, lowered flaps, and dropped my wheels - I still kept closing.  I had to fishtail and do flat weaves to stay behind him.  This maneuver was repeated three times, and on one occasion I almost cut his tail off, we were so close...

Then we started into steep dives.  The last one was at around 1,000 feet with flaps down.  This last maneuver was deadly and nerve-racking.  He went straight down toward the ground, hoping I couldn’t pull out.  If I pulled out early, he could have come in behind me, so I stayed with him.  If we had had our wheels down when we pulled out, we would have been on the ground.

 
It was after this pullout that I finally was able to get my sights lined up and fire at him.  I must have hit him with the first burst, because he kept turning and went into the ground and broke up.  Knowing the caliber of this German pilot, I am sure that if I had taken the time to get off some shots when he was slowing down he could have possibly shot me down or made a getaway.  My other combat victories were not nearly as spectacular as this one, and it is with this in mind that I can recall it so vividly.

*          *          *

Lt Beyer’s victim was Klaus Mietusch.  Mietusch was one of the most fascinating individuals in the Geschwader’s history.  He was a career officer, had joined the Geschwader in 1938, and was its senior pilot in length of service when he died at age twenty-five.  His early combat career was marked by a seemingly endless series of failures and frustrations.  A member of the successful 7th Staffel under Muencheberg, he did not come into his own until he succeeded to the command and led it on detached assignment in Russia in 1943.  He was the opposite of the typical extroverted, self-confident fighter pilot.  He compensated for what he believed to be his lack of ability by an act of will.  According to Priller, Mietusch’s combat motto was, “Bore in, until the enemy is as large as a barn door in your sights.”  Again quoting Priller, duty as Mietusch’s wingman was an “unforgettable experience.”  Mietusch was shot down ten times and was wounded at least four times.  He was said never to have turned down a mission, and he had logged an incredible 452 combat sorties at the time of his death.  His seventy-two victories brought the award of the Oak Leaves to his Knights’s Cross, two months after his death.

[Scojo]

 you obviously wouldn't be able to fly through the formation without impacting the sea.

Yes you can. Pull up. It's called boom 'n zoom

[216th_Jordan]

lol. this thread is awesome.

[Finkeren]

I heard a rumour that some pilots would extend their landing gear in order to use them to flip over Tiger tanks and feed on their soft underbelly.

P-51: Velociraptor of the skies!

[GrendelsDad]

Crane/ landing gear down in obvious attack position/ thread

[Scojo]

Crane/ landing gear down in obvious attack position/ thread

 Mind blown

[LukeFF]

I heard a rumour that some pilots would extend their landing gear in order to use them to flip over Tiger tanks and feed on their soft underbelly.

 

And then they used their .50 cals to sink destroyers.

[Wulf]

Yes you can. Pull up. It's called boom 'n zoom

 

 

Yes, you could but when attacking a flight of bombers, in the way you describe, you would potentially be exposed to concentrated defensive fire on both the dive and zoom.  If on the other hand you can pass through the formation you can maintain much higher speed before climbing back to an attacking position out of range of the defensive fire.

[pilotpierre]

Back on topic please

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii16skT_0xg

Jesus she must be an alien. If you look closely (and I am sure most of you have) it goes all the way up to her navel.

[Gambit21]

This thread lacks even a single Booby

 

Fixed

[Finkeren]

I'll see your boobies and raise you a pair of great tits

 

 

We're not derailing this thread, are we?