Bombing the Reich

[DD_Arthur]

I must admit I'm really looking forward to Mfdway and carrier operations.  I don't seem to have any problems landing either

 

If it was in my power to decide the next steps of this series then yes, I'd be invading Sicily.  This would give us carriers and just about every mid-war allied type then flying.

 

We are now in the midst of the third eastern front expansion.  Diversity is a good thing.  I'm not quite sure if the eastern front does give us any sense of the tides of war changing.  Western Russia is more flat, open and often swampy plains divided by river barriers.  The next major change of scenery would be the Carpathians in late '44.  

 

Edit;  Oh yeah....I'm a Brit.  Let me tell you, the last thing I want them to do is the BoB!

Edited February 23, 2017 by DD_Arthur

[Finkeren]

I have to admit, a P51A (A 36 Apache) over the sands of North Africa has great appeal to me, so don't go dissing the P 51 Fink...

 

 

 

Me dissing the P-51 is like me dissing Justin Bieber. I'm pretty sure neither of them care what I think, as they bask in the adoration of millions of people.

[sinned]

I never claimed, that the Eastern Front is "key to business succes". That's just my personal preference. What I'm skeptical of is the idea, that more American toys to play with suddenly will increae sales vastly.

 

I do agree though, that the course set out by Jason is at least circumstantial evidence, that he sees things the way you do.

I gave you the link, eastern front or pacific or med being most fun fun is a moot point if not key to business success at this stage for jason.

In order to have even some possibility of fun fun theatre, i support wherever they go.

 

 

Pacific is next.

 

Fink pls excuse me as i make a run before europe fans bounce me in this european infested forum.

 

Peace out and you do have good gunnery and nice personality to teach.

[Finkeren]

Pacific is definitely next. That you're right about.

 

I hope you'll be proven right, and the sales skyrocket with the first Pacific installment. Whatever is good for this sim works for me.

 

All the best, and watch your six

[sinned]

I hope so too and stay pls away from my six.

[wtornado]

Have you guys seen this? Looks like you can do a legit England to Germany bombing mission in modded 1946 at this point. Complete with takeoff, form up and P-47s not being able to escort all the way to the target because it's so far.

 

 

I made a lot of ''the Defense of the Reich'' missions for HSFX but they were not popular becuase I would put in a correct amount of Allied vs AXIS

planes in the co-ops and when you were german you had to be good to get back to base alive.(That is what happens when you make co-ops historical)

The Battle of France lasted longer than the Battle of Midway.

 

Just sayin'.

Midway Co-ops on M4today are one of the most popular downloads considering the Hyperlobby and 1946 are dying.

So is North Africa and Battle of Britain and much to my surprise the Historical North Korean Co-ops too

 

I have to admit, a P51A (A 36 Apache) over the sands of North Africa has great appeal to me, so don't go dissing the P 51 Fink...

 

 

Well It would be fun to see the Apache even if it came in when the North African campaign was pretty well over.

 

They would of been good for Pantelleria although there was not much going on there and the invasion of Sicily.

 

 

 

Maybe Team Fusion Simulations after their North African campaign might go back to the ETO from 1943 to 1945

with the late war fighters and heavy bombers they already have maps that would be good for that.

[Scojo]

I think it's possible it could boost sales. I really think it will come down to just how well it's marketed through steam and whatever channels WT players see. All of the people I know here in my small part of America who play plane games play WT and always buy through Steam.

 

Now how much will it boost sales? I don't know.

 

One thing that I've learned about the Western market though is don't push individual plane purchasing. For some reason Americans hate the micro-transaction kind of purchase model. They want to buy the whole thing up front. And that's going to be difficult for this Sim as costs are higher since it's a bit more niche and they can't include everything as a $60 "box" game

 

So given these things, it's really just a gamble, I think. However maybe the team knows something I don't and have good reason to believe the Pacific will bring in more sales.

 

Now to speak to Pacific vs Western Front, I can honestly say that most Americans I know know a lot more about the aircraft in the Pacific than the Western Front. I think that's in large part due to the emphasis on Pearl Harbor in our history books/classes. Everyone knows about the Japanese Zero from that, however when it comes to general public education on the Western Front, there's never much emphasis on the aircraft we used or fought against there since there's not a big air war type event associated with it like Pearl Harbor or the atomic bombings or the "crazy" Kamikazies...

 

Therefore when looking at mass appeal in this market, I think Pacific will grab that better than the Western Front

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I think it's possible it could boost sales. I really think it will come down to just how well it's marketed through steam and whatever channels WT players see. All of the people I know here in my small part of America who play plane games play WT and always buy through Steam.

 

Now how much will it boost sales? I don't know.

 

One thing that I've learned about the Western market though is don't push individual plane purchasing. For some reason Americans hate the micro-transaction kind of purchase model. They want to buy the whole thing up front. And that's going to be difficult for this Sim as costs are higher since it's a bit more niche and they can't include everything as a $60 "box" game

 

So given these things, it's really just a gamble, I think. However maybe the team knows something I don't and have good reason to believe the Pacific will bring in more sales.

 

Now to speak to Pacific vs Western Front, I can honestly say that most Americans I know know a lot more about the aircraft in the Pacific than the Western Front. I think that's in large part due to the emphasis on Pearl Harbor in our history books/classes. Everyone knows about the Japanese Zero from that, however when it comes to general public education on the Western Front, there's never much emphasis on the aircraft we used or fought against there since there's not a big air war type event associated with it like Pearl Harbor or the atomic bombings or the "crazy" Kamikazies...

 

Therefore when looking at mass appeal in this market, I think Pacific will grab that better than the Western Front

 

As a fellow American, I always found the war in Europe more interesting and I'm 10/10 more knowledgeable about the European Theater and its happenings than I am with the Pacific Theater.

 

I agree that this is maybe atypical and I expect anything PTO related to sell pretty well.

[Scojo]

As a fellow American, I always found the war in Europe more interesting and I'm 10/10 more knowledgeable about the European Theater and its happenings than I am with the Pacific Theater.

 

I agree that this is maybe atypical and I expect anything PTO related to sell pretty well.

 

I don't doubt you do. Not all Americans are that way. I'm just referring to the larger group of Americans, especially those that only know about the war from what they were taught in our public educational system

And I'm not saying I'm right. I was just providing reason behind my speculation of which theatre would be more well known or popular to the typical American

[Chief_Mouser]

Do you remember that Pacific Fighters in original Il-2 came as a standalone AND merged versions? After a very short time the standalone version pretty much disappeared. Those that went for it discovered the all-encompassing content of Il-2 and joined in with the whole thing. Jason and the devs must be hoping that the same thing happens with BoMid, that loads of 'new' players who buy Midway because it's Pacific-oriented will get BoS/BoM/BoK retrospectively. Might be an even-smarter marketing strategy than just going for US-focused players.

Cheers.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

There is so much opportunity in a tactical ETO series we don't need to go all the way to the Reich for years. Italy too. By then the tech, VR and DXxx will be ready to do it right over the 'enemy' heartland.

[Holtzauge]

<snip>

Now to speak to Pacific vs Western Front, I can honestly say that most Americans I know know a lot more about the aircraft in the Pacific than the Western Front. I think that's in large part due to the emphasis on Pearl Harbor in our history books/classes. Everyone knows about the Japanese Zero from that, however when it comes to general public education on the Western Front, there's never much emphasis on the aircraft we used or fought against there since there's not a big air war type event associated with it like Pearl Harbor or the atomic bombings or the "crazy" Kamikazies...

 

Therefore when looking at mass appeal in this market, I think Pacific will grab that better than the Western Front

 

 

As a fellow American, I always found the war in Europe more interesting and I'm 10/10 more knowledgeable about the European Theater and its happenings than I am with the Pacific Theater.

 

I agree that this is maybe atypical and I expect anything PTO related to sell pretty well.

 

Interesting, I never would have guessed that! I would have thought "the Mighty Eighth" and the European theatre not the Pacific had a special place in the hearts of Americans. Lucky then that I'm not in charge of the IL-2 release planning and sales cause I would have said the majority of the Yanks want the same thing as me: Namely the ETO and not the PTO!  But then what do I know? I did not do a good job predicting the results of the recent US elections either......

[Rjel]

Me dissing the P-51 is like me dissing Justin Bieber. I'm pretty sure neither of them care what I think, as they bask in the adoration of millions of people.

The difference being 10 years from now people will still know what a P-51 was......

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I took a nap in the middle of the day and missed such a discussion. On thing to add however, mentioned problems with landing and that people will have it even harder with carrier landings.

 

But thats the thrill ! Thats the challange that is so appealing. Another barren featureless desert ... I mean eastern area with same kind of things wouldnt particularly change any experience. With this you can learn something new. 

 

 

 

I would have thought "the Mighty Eighth"

 

Pacific has its own story - Old 666. 

Although this one has been highly exaggerated, since they even made Dogfights episode about it claiming some absurd numbers that B-17 splashed while in reality they scored none.  

[Scojo]

Do you remember that Pacific Fighters in original Il-2 came as a standalone AND merged versions? After a very short time the standalone version pretty much disappeared. Those that went for it discovered the all-encompassing content of Il-2 and joined in with the whole thing. Jason and the devs must be hoping that the same thing happens with BoMid, that loads of 'new' players who buy Midway because it's Pacific-oriented will get BoS/BoM/BoK retrospectively. Might be an even-smarter marketing strategy than just going for US-focused players.

Cheers.

 

Until you just mentioned it, I had forgotten that Pacific Fighters was what got me into flight sims. I remember seeing it in stores and saving up to buy it and my original logitek joystick

[Lusekofte]

I think it will bring in the sceptic people from 2012 , win over more from COD and some from other simulators, there will be more people buying. It bring along a more positive attitude around in other sites this pacific thing.

To me it depends on how the planes will behave and what plane set there will be. I have no special interest in it other than what multiengine bombers, the dauntless and Kate and the Devastator , the latter is to me important

[Scojo]

I think it will bring in the sceptic people from 2012 , win over more from COD and some from other simulators, there will be more people buying. It bring along a more positive attitude around in other sites this pacific thing.

To me it depends on how the planes will behave and what plane set there will be. I have no special interest in it other than what multiengine bombers, the dauntless and Kate and the Devastator , the latter is to me important

Surely you'll at least enjoy the Dauntless, Avenger, or Vindicator?

 

Unfortunately, not many twin engines though. Just Marauder and Catalina, right? But I'd love  to have either or both for sure

[BlitzPig_EL]

 On thing to add however, mentioned problems with landing and that people will have it even harder with carrier landings.

 

But thats the thrill ! Thats the challange that is so appealing.

 

 

 

 

I'm not doubting that it is thrilling for hard core old hands, but for new people, that we desperately need, it will be an instant turn off, and they won't like it when they come here complaining about it and get the typical "Learn how to fly n00b!" response from the old hands.

 

I hope that the upcoming "fix" for the roll coupling issue, puts some reality back in the low speed regime, and that ground handling can be more realistically represented before we get carrier ops, because if not there are going to be a lot of planes in the drink, and a lot of unhappy customers.

[Scojo]

I'm not doubting that it is thrilling for hard core old hands, but for new people, that we desperately need, it will be an instant turn off, and they won't like it when they come here complaining about it and get the typical "Learn how to fly n00b!" response from the old hands.

 

I hope that the upcoming "fix" for the roll coupling issue, puts some reality back in the low speed regime, and that ground handling can be more realistically represented before we get carrier ops, because if not there are going to be a lot of planes in the drink, and a lot of unhappy customers.

Eh I don't think it will be too bad. The tail hook helps a lot and I think the same people that would have a hard enough time with carrier landings to complain also have a hard time with regular landings.

 

Plus, I don't see most American planes being as hard to land even on a carrier as it is to land a Mig or La-5. Two planes which I still can't seem prevent from ground looping on landing

 

Then there's always the island runway crutch if someone really can't handle the carrier stuff

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I agree with you here completely.

 

A massive overhaul of ground handling, and the physics of aircraft control surface interaction with the virtual airflow, and roll coupling, among others, will have to happen to make carrier ops even remotely possible in this game engine.

With the possible "roll-coupling" exception, I don't agree with this at all. Even the roll-coupling issue is pretty minor for the most part.

Edited February 23, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

I'm not doubting that it is thrilling for hard core old hands, but for new people

I'm no hardcore old player. Up until 3-4 years ago I was quite casual one. But the point I'm making that natural part of flight simulators is the need to learn. You need to learn your aircraft, need to learn how to bomb and now there will be a need to learn how to land. So nothing ridiculous if you ask me. Frankly, Japanese side might be a great starting point here since Japanese machines have generally speaking lower stalling point and superior low speed handling. But I doubt Wildcat will pose a great problem either. 

There are also things built on carriers that help pilots make proper approach, you just have to do it right. 

[Scojo]

and now there will be a need to learn how to land.

There wasn't a need before?

 

Well you may be right when it comes to MP. No one seems to care about getting home, but that won't change for the Pacific either lol

 

Maybe the people that can't land will just play on servers so they never have to worry about it

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

There wasn't a need before?

I meant to land on an aircraft carrier. Thought it was obvious. But nvm. 

 

 

 

No one seems to care about getting home, but that won't change for the Pacific either lol

Not true, at least not fully. On servers like TAW its the opposite to what you say. 

 

 

 

Maybe the people that can't land will just play on servers so they never have to worry about it

 

And maybe they will simply learn. Seriously, we can dumb down gameplay and require no learning at all. Make it as casual as it gets. But then again, there is a reason why we are here and not at War Thunder. 

[216th_Jordan]

I think landing on carries will be a point that gets people buying the game

To be honest I don't see carrier landings as being harder in this game, near stall behavior was actually very difficult in old sturm and landing gear seemed to be made of plastic.

Thats 2 things that would make landing on carriers in BoX easier.

Edited February 23, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[Lusekofte]

Well to me things like torpedo drop is important, I liked the fact that the torpedo dropping was so hard that it had its own button in the interface (historical or non fragile) in IL 2 46.

I think there should be no short cut in these things, if you are to be successful you need to follow the book. The right amount of speed and altitude . this goes for landing also, I see no point making anything of it arcadish in full real settings.  none of the operation is impossible for anyone if they spend time learning, if not they should play in easy settings. I am still disappointed in the bombaimer interface we got in this game, one of the reasons I can not bring myself to fly bombers we have in this game and in COD

Edited February 23, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[[CPT]milopugdog]

About time this topic was closed. Please, someone other than me put a picture of a crane in it and it'll be shut down in an instant.

You can have cranes anywhere with a signature such as mine, friend.

[Skoop]

I know that following BoK they're heading to the Pacific. While I think its an interesting aspect of WWII, naval aviation, CAG's, surface warfare and all that that theater entails, its not really my thing as I prefer the ETO. I don't know about you guys, but I think a late-war expansion with P-51's, 109K's, B-17's, day/night strategic bombing, interception etc etc would be the way to go. It's one of those aspects that hasn't really been covered officially in the sim world and its something that would really shine in IL-2. 

 

Obviously BoK still has a long way to go in the dev cycle and the Pacific expansions are several years out if not more. Still, here's to hoping? But as they say, wish in one hand...

 

DCS is already covering this, just saw pics this week of dcs b-17 over Normandy.  Glad IL2 BOX is going where it's going, dcs in the ETO and IL2 in the pacific is the perfect reason to just fly both sims.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Skoop

[hames123]

There is so much opportunity in a tactical ETO series we don't need to go all the way to the Reich for years. Italy too. By then the tech, VR and DXxx will be ready to do it right over the 'enemy' heartland.

Yes, that is what I keep saying, technology will improve and we may one day have the large bombing campaigns.

[Retnek]

... I am still disappointed in the bombaimer interface we got in this game, one of the reasons I can not bring myself to fly bombers we have in this game and in COD

 

Luse, the LotFe in CloD is simulated well, afaik the vizier in the Blenny, too. Take the He-111 and go for it, very precise and near the real thing. Using the Ju-88-bomb-vizier is disturbed by an autopilot-bug, but it's fine for any area target, too. There are some other bugs with bomb-spacing, but all-in-all it's ok.

  Anyhow, one has to build up some routine with both vizier systems, in BoX and in CloD. It's a comparable complex task, but CloD is much closer to the real thing.

  Caring for realism I'd like to complain about the German autopilot system in BoX much more, since it's fixing the climb rate, too. An autopilot just keeping the plane on course and let you manage the climb rate yourself with the trim was the original German setup, so much better! Set the course via autopilot, set your climb rate via trim and enjoy the flight! So much fun with the Ju-88 to let a Hurricane behind you in a nicely trimmed sinking flight.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm not too worried about people having trouble landing on aircraft carriers. I couldn't stick a landing for probably 6 months of flying IL-2. I was all about the quick missions and multiplayer dogfights (some of the memorable ones early on were in the mountains near Kuban even) and then later on I got into more of the flight ops and getting landings right. Carrier ops are immensely cool and you don't have to land it at the end really to have a good experience (necessarily) as a new pilot.

 

I'm with Fink that I have some skepticism towards the turn towards the Pacific theater providing a boost to the series. I think the Kuban/Midway announcement has gone a long way to restoring faith within the community. The positive vibe around here was not to be found a couple of years back. Will Midway bring in new pilots? I'm really not sure but I'm hoping that Jason uses Midway as an opportunity to do a bit of a "reset" in terms of marketing and get the word out. A flashy trailer set at an opportune moment in the marketing campaign would probably be helpful in drawing new players in - the community can probably help do the rest. From there... maybe we'll suck a few into the East Front and provide an overall bigger audience to go to Okinawa and beyond... maybe even somehow over Western Europe in some capacity.

 

There continues to be interest in the series... Just this month there have been 334 views on my Battle of Moscow review and between 600-700 views every month before that.

Edited February 24, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[Gambit21]

Pacific is definitely next. That you're right about.

 

I hope you'll be proven right, and the sales skyrocket with the first Pacific installment. Whatever is good for this sim works for me.

 

All the best, and watch your six

 

I do believe going to PTO is the best decision from a revenue standpoint - it's also about as far away from the Eastern Front as we can get.

I'm talking terrain, plane set, operations. That is a good thing because I think a lot of us are feeling quite a bit of fatigue from being in Russia and flying

German and Russian aircraft. Just like with the old sim as much as I love the Zeke and Wildcat etc, I'll go back and fly Eastern Front here and there, and create Eastern Front

missions here and there...but I want a choice in the matter. 

 

Give us Midway, Solomons/Henderson (which will set us up for both early and mid-war) then a later war scenario with Hellcats and Corsairs, and we'll be in good shape and ready to move on.

I think a pre and post invasion tactical Channel map/France scenario is a great idea.

 

I'm 100% ignorant about the Med...and my interest in reflects that...and I'd be pretty ticked off anyway with another release right now with more 109's etc. Enough.

However I'll gladly support that direction after PTO.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I do believe going to PTO is the best decision from a revenue standpoint - it's also about as far away from the Eastern Front as we can get.

I'm talking terrain, plane set, operations. That is a good thing because I think a lot of us are feeling quite a bit of fatigue from being in Russia and flying

German and Russian aircraft. Just like with the old sim as much as I love the Zeke and Wildcat etc, I'll go back and fly Eastern Front here and there, and create Eastern Front

missions here and there...but I want a choice in the matter. 

 

Give us Midway, Solomons/Henderson (which will set us up for both early and mid-war) then a later war scenario with Hellcats and Corsairs, and we'll be in good shape and ready to move on.

I think a pre and post invasion tactical Channel map/France scenario is a great idea.

 

I'm 100% ignorant about the Med...and my interest in reflects that...and I'd be pretty ticked off anyway with another release right now with more 109's etc. Enough.

However I'll gladly support that direction after PTO.

 

Going to have a lot of fun flying in the Pacific I think! That said... The Med would be interesting. Yes, there are a lot of 109s there, but its an interesting place to be. You have the Italian air force which had a great variety of types and you have a good mix of Allied types of both the common and well known variety and the lesser known ones as well. It's a great theater for fans of the P-40 as it was widely used in many varieties. Not unlike Guadalcanal where there were quite a few versions of P-40 passing through.

 

More obscurely would be the operations of the USN covering the Operation Torch landings and the action that the Wildcats participated in during that operation. All in all a fascinating theater. Still... I see how its breaking down right now. You have DCS doing Normany, Team Fusion is tackling the early North Africa campaign, and IL-2 is covering the East and the Pacific. At least that's how it shakes out for now.

[curiousGamblerr]

Jason spoke of the "Spirit of '46" or something, right? It's interesting that the Pacific was also the second move of the original series... If BoX ends up as successful as the original, I won't complain!

[Scojo]

Not true, at least not fully. On servers like TAW its the opposite to what you say. 

 

And maybe they will simply learn. Seriously, we can dumb down gameplay and require no learning at all. Make it as casual as it gets. But then again, there is a reason why we are here and not at War Thunder. 

I was joking

 

IDGAF if anyone thinks carrier landings are too difficult. They can either learn or get over it

[curiousGamblerr]

I was joking

 

IDGAF if anyone thinks carrier landings are too difficult. They can either learn or get over it

Learning how to pull a perfect carrier landing is going to be so fun! I hope I don't get married or lose a hand or something in the next two years...

[Gambit21]

I'm married - flying would be easier if I'd lost the hand.

[Rjel]

Learning how to pull a perfect carrier landing is going to be so fun! I hope I don't get married or lose a hand or something in the next two years...

Those are the only two possibilities you might face in not learning to land on a carrier??? Man, I wish I was as confident.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Rjel

[Scojo]

 get married

shivers

Those are the only two possibilities you might face in not learning to land on a carrier??? Man, I wish I was as confident.

In general it's really not that bad. Give yourself some distance, know your glide slope speed with flaps and gear down, stay at that speed in to the carrier, put the tail hook down early enough to hit the cable. The cable and your forward momentum do the rest.

 

I'm sure it's not that easy IRL, since your heart would be beating 1,000kph, but in a Sim, you'll be fine. Also, not many Sim missions ever had me landing in bad weather. Carrier landings in a storm or rough seas? That would be a nightmare.

The carrier should be pointing into the wind though as to make your relative approach speed pretty small letting you time the upswing of the ship

[curiousGamblerr]

Those are the only two possibilities you might face in not learning to land on a carrier??? Man, I wish I was as confident.

Lol no, but those would keep me from spending hours and hours *trying* - success is not assured by any means based on my Pacific Foghters experience

Edited February 24, 2017 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[Finkeren]

Learning how to pull a perfect carrier landing is going to be so fun! I hope I don't get married or lose a hand or something in the next two years...

Getting married didn't really restrict my flying time.

 

Having children did.