Damaged engine quits near airfield.

[Matt]

There should be a distinction between the aircraft being able to be fuelled and sent back up vs an aircraft that lands at base with big holes bin it, engine damage, and one gear partially collapsed, don't you think?

There should also be a difference between crash landing somewhere in the country side and landing at your home airfield with big holes in your plane.

 

 

 

But what if you dig in your plane on landing?

 

Add another status between "crash landed" and "landed", like "landing accident" or whatever.

 

 

The best way of course would be to seperate this depending on both the status of your plane and the actions you took to finished the mission. The less damaged the plane and the more you tried to bring the plane home, the better.

 

In any case, as it stands now, as soon as your engine is damaged or you got a big fuel leak (and don't carry a huge fuel load), you're not benefitting from trying to fly home and you would be better off heading to the enemy and trying to destroy something and then crash landing on the spot (as long as you are in friendly territory), than to get home to your airfield.

[Solmyr]

Unreasonable,

 

I will give this a go next time to see if turning the engines off makes a difference as I'm fed up with the number of "Crash landed" debriefs I get even after a perfect glide approach with no fuel, having taken the time to RTB!

 

Regards

 

I did try to do that long ago and I can assume that it doesn't change anything : turned off engines may be killed yet, and the guy to get the kill.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Gents,

 

The thing I find most annoying about either the engine stopping or running out of fuel in flight, is that when this happens it credits somebody with your destruction (kill).  I have landed at active airfields many times with either the engine(s) dead or no fuel, having limped back to base only for the message to appear on finals, as discussed above.  Although the aircraft would need to be sorted, surely it would not be a "write-off" and thus landing back at your airfield shouldn't cause the other player etc to be given your frame as a "kill"!?

 

There are many times when this has happened to me, when I have taken the time to limp home.  I sometimes think that it is just easier now to bail when losing fuel or having damaged engines over friendly territory.

 

Regards

 

Dive bombing in an HE-111?

In real life this would have likely resulted in a claim by an opposing pilot. There is a decent chance he would have been awarded the kill if there was additional verification - witness, gun cam, etc - of the good strikes on the aircraft. It would not necessarilly result in the actual destruction or write off on your end. So, awarding him the points is not actually unrealistic. Also, if you check the results, you don't suffer a death in the stats either. Historically it's pretty close and it really only comes down to points in the end (on most MP maps anyway). Bailing out would result in the destruction of the AC though.

[Fern]

Watch this: 

 

Who made it back?

 

Thanks to TURK_CAN for saving my ass.

 

 

Spoiler. Here was the outcome:

 

JG4 Ether actually got credited for destroying me in game, but not in stats.

Stats show me as "landing" on the airfield.

EGORIK, makes it home also.

 

Stats that go along with the video:

EGORIK - http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1420723/?tour=18

ME - http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1420663/?tour=18

 

 

 

[Haza]

Watch this: 

 

Who made it back?

 

Thanks to TURK_CAN for saving my ass.

 

 

Spoiler. Here was the outcome:

 

JG4 Ether actually got credited for destroying me in game, but not in stats.

 

Stats show me as "landing" on the airfield.

 

EGORIK, makes it home also.

 

Stats that go along with the video:

EGORIK - http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1420723/?tour=18

ME - http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1420663/?tour=18

 

 

 

 

Fern,

 

Thanks for sharing that and for getting home, as I have also landed many times without realising that a mainwheel is missing and cartwheeled.  

However, having reviewed the stats that you included, to be honest I'm even more confused than ever.  As I see it, even with the smoke from EGORIK's aircraft it showed that TURK CAN had only inflicted 0.6% damage (although I guess even a small hole in a sump can cause an oil leak, that can look bad, however, you can still get back home.  However, even with your aircraft badly damaged at 91.8% (or 99.4% if cumulative), it shows you as having landed serviceable.  I guess I will just carry on doing my thing of trying to get home and will just accept whatever is shown.

Good old Turk Can to the rescue!!

 

Cheers

[deWaardt]

My experience with engine trouble is very good,

 

Usually when the coolant has leaked out, it'll heat up more and more, until it starts losing power and seizes up.

An engine that is overheating without loss of coolant, that is at 120/125 degrees and suddenly heats up to 140/160 is all normal. You might have blown a head gasket or coolant hose, at this point the engine is beyond saving if you continue to run it. You might be able to save it by shutting it down and letting it cool down, although the damage has probably already been done and the engine might not restart, or will restart but blow later down the row.

 

When oil pressure is gone and I push it at full power, it'll work for a couple minutes but then suddenly blow up. I imagine this could be the engine throwing a rod due to lack or bearing lubrication. When no oil and I run the engine at low power, it'll often survive up to 10 minutes, after which it will start to lose power and quit.

 

Catastrophic damage to the engine will most of the time kill the engine within seconds or instantly if at full power, when at lower power the engine might continue to run, but severe damage (shell through the block) it's gonna give up eventually.

 

It always gradually fails, unless I push it to full power.

 

 

 

One good indicator on engines failing gradually, is what the needles on the gauges do. Specifically the tachometer. When the engine is dying, the rpm will start to "jump" and the needle will twist up and down. If the rpm starts oscillating like 500rpm up and down, the engine is toast and will go no matter what you'll do.

 

 

About the sudden failure during landing:

 

If a damaged engine is running fine at the current power setting, don't change it. A very big factor is the engine's internal balance. If a shell went straight through some cylinders, some pistons and connector rods can be destroyed. These engines around the time were pretty though and might continue to run.

 

When your engine is at a certain power setting and rpm it might run pretty fine because the crank is still in balance, but as soon as you change the power setting the engine loses it's internal balance and rattles itself apart. Try to maintain the same airspeed as much as possible, and when you slow down very gradually reduce the engine power. Don't yank the throttle backwards, this can cause instant loss of internal balance and can cause the engine to suddenly grenade.

 

Increasing power is never a good idea, only do it if absolutely necessary.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Hmm that second edvice about do not reduce engine rpm or mf pressure after being damaged and when rpm do not fluctuate is interesting - I olways reduce engine load when damaged even when gouges do not show parameters fluctuations. I have to check it I wonder do if Same apply when loosing pressure?

Edited February 13, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[Fern]

I was in "continuous power" when limping it home. I think when the engine started to quit, I got a techno chat "overheat". I manually opened radiators and I was also applying the flaps and lowering gear. Not sure if I cut back on throttle or not. Too bad techno chat doesnt show up in replays.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Fern

[deWaardt]

Hmm that second edvice about do not reduce engine rpm or mf pressure after being damaged and when rpm do not fluctuate is interesting - I olways reduce engine load when damaged even when gouges do not show parameters fluctuations. I have to check it I wonder do if Same apply when loosing pressure?

 

 

I was in "continuous power" when limping it home. I think when the engine started to quit, I got a techno chat "overheat". I manually opened radiators and I was also applying the flaps and lowering gear. Not sure if I cut back on throttle or not. Too bad techno chat doesnt show up in replays.

 

 

It's a bit... situation specific in my experience.

When overheating, definitely throttle back.

 

It's logical to immediately change throttle setting after the engine was struck, but don't keep changing it afterwards. If you lowered it and the engine seems stable, don't reduce it until you really gotta put it down. Keep it at a constant power level and try to maintain the same speed to balance out load on the engine. If you increase load, the extra torque might run the damaged engine out of balance, same goes if you decrease power.

 

I've had so many situations where the engine ran fine for half a hour straight, but I reduced power by 10% and the engine immediately ate itself.

 

 

If you don't know what the right power setting is to run it at, very slowly advance the throttle back or forward until you find a power setting it likes. Same for rpm.

 

That's what I do, I'm fairly successful keeping damaged engines alive.

What I am saying could be wrong, though. If anyone has better tips, please give them.

 

I'm not very good at explaining, sorry.

 

 

 

Some fun stuf:

It's actually possible to unseize a seized engine if you're dareful. I do not recommend it, but it's fun anyways.

Dive at very high speeds, it can cause the prop to break loose.

Make sure you have rpm all the way down and ~30% throttle. 

 

Chance is fairly slim, but I've managed to restart an engine to run at slightly above idle speeds a couple of times. It isn't giving me any performance, but an idling engine gives less drag than a windmilling/seized prop. If you manage to unseize and restart the engine, trying to make it any power will most likely cause it to blow up catastrophically. This is especially useful for twin engine aircraft, where the windmilling/seized engine might be dragging you down, and if you can restart that engine to run at atleast idle speed you can make it home.

 

But again, your chances are very low to get the engine to run again. It might turn over a few times, but will most likely just die again.

I'd say.... 5% chance. Not worth it, but fun anyways.

[216th_Jordan]

It's logical to immediately change throttle setting after the engine was struck, but don't keep changing it afterwards. If you lowered it and the engine seems stable, don't reduce it until you really gotta put it down. Keep it at a constant power level and try to maintain the same speed to balance out load on the engine. If you increase load, the extra torque might run the damaged engine out of balance, same goes if you decrease power.

 

 

This. I always do it like that and normally don't have a problem if the engine runs stable at a certain setting. If your cooling system is hit it is different of course.

 

When your engine is revving you need to find a setting that is relatively stable (look at the rpm needle and pick a point where it is least jumping). Throttle back completely on finial approach, basically gliding in.

 

One thing: you can run the engine at a high rpm sometimes without problems, it is really the oscillations you have got to watch out for.

Edited February 13, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[Solmyr]

My experience with engine trouble is very good,

 

Usually when the coolant has leaked out, it'll heat up more and more, until it starts losing power and seizes up.

An engine that is overheating without loss of coolant, that is at 120/125 degrees and suddenly heats up to 140/160 is all normal. You might have blown a head gasket or coolant hose, at this point the engine is beyond saving if you continue to run it. You might be able to save it by shutting it down and letting it cool down, although the damage has probably already been done and the engine might not restart, or will restart but blow later down the row.

 

When oil pressure is gone and I push it at full power, it'll work for a couple minutes but then suddenly blow up. I imagine this could be the engine throwing a rod due to lack or bearing lubrication. When no oil and I run the engine at low power, it'll often survive up to 10 minutes, after which it will start to lose power and quit.

 

Catastrophic damage to the engine will most of the time kill the engine within seconds or instantly if at full power, when at lower power the engine might continue to run, but severe damage (shell through the block) it's gonna give up eventually.

 

It always gradually fails, unless I push it to full power.

 

 

 

One good indicator on engines failing gradually, is what the needles on the gauges do. Specifically the tachometer. When the engine is dying, the rpm will start to "jump" and the needle will twist up and down. If the rpm starts oscillating like 500rpm up and down, the engine is toast and will go no matter what you'll do.

 

 

About the sudden failure during landing:

 

If a damaged engine is running fine at the current power setting, don't change it. A very big factor is the engine's internal balance. If a shell went straight through some cylinders, some pistons and connector rods can be destroyed. These engines around the time were pretty though and might continue to run.

 

When your engine is at a certain power setting and rpm it might run pretty fine because the crank is still in balance, but as soon as you change the power setting the engine loses it's internal balance and rattles itself apart. Try to maintain the same airspeed as much as possible, and when you slow down very gradually reduce the engine power. Don't yank the throttle backwards, this can cause instant loss of internal balance and can cause the engine to suddenly grenade.

 

Increasing power is never a good idea, only do it if absolutely necessary.

 

Excellent explanations.

[Scojo]

I've noticed this. It always happens when two things happen:

 

1) Rapid throttle change

 

2) Prop speeds up when diving toward the airfield

[SCG_motoadve]

Agree with this and I have done lots of times is stay high over the airfield , expecting the engine to quit, then do a deadstick landing on the airfield,no damage to the plane other than the toasted engine.

 

Still get mission failed in single player , and that I was killed in multiplayer.

[Scojo]

Agree with this and I have done lots of times is stay high over the airfield , expecting the engine to quit, then do a deadstick landing on the airfield,no damage to the plane other than the toasted engine.

 

Still get mission failed in single player , and that I was killed in multiplayer.

What server? I land with dead engines a good bit and as long as the landing gear is intact, I get the "In Service" status

[SCG_motoadve]

WOL

[Scojo]

WOL

Are you damaging components other than your engine on landing?

 

I've landed without an engine there no problem before. The times I get listed as crash landed are always times when I damaged some additional component during the landing

[hames123]

You probably remember it stopping on the final approach because you nursed it all the way back to the field. If you were just shot down over the target area, you would probably just not remember it, or if you did, as just another victim of the evil Flakkity Flak.