AAA targeting priorities

[JaffaCake]

Not sure if its in Dev's power or server owner's, but I found a lot of times AAA seems to focus entirely on one aircraft. So a single early fighter can handle entire field of AAA while bombers dive in and offload.

 

Better target distribution for AAA would be nice and would make grouped assaults a lot harder than it is now (especially airfield strafing!!)

Edited February 9, 2017 by JaffaCake

[Scojo]

I don't know if they only focus on one target, but I do know they focus on the first thing that comes in range of them. People do commonly use the tactic you described for this reason since the fighter is hard for the AAA to hit as they don't deflection shoot very well.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Wait wait..

Are you talking about Mission AF Straffing?

Thats already hard enough

As for Primary spawn AF straffing.
Thats way to easy all AF's where we spawn on say WoL need 4-5X More AAA &Flak Starting in 2 rings 6km & 3km from AF
PRetty much the sky should be filled with flak/aaa like its a carrier .

This would prevent those "special" individuals who vulch spawn AF's

[Semir]

Wait wait..

 

Are you talking about Mission AF Straffing?

 

Thats already hard enough

 

As for Primary spawn AF straffing.

Thats way to easy all AF's where we spawn on say WoL need 4-5X More AAA &Flak Starting in 2 rings 6km & 3km from AF

PRetty much the sky should be filled with flak/aaa like its a carrier .

 

This would prevent those "special" individuals who vulch spawn AF's

 

 

Strafing airfields is like the normal WW2 behaviour especially if you have air superiority. Flak was never that powerful of a deterrent even at Berlin where landing German jets were intercepted on their finals by british aircraft. They even had to launch 109s to provide cover to jets as they were landing - so if you are getting strafed jump into a fighter and drive them away how you are supposed to do it anyway

Edited February 9, 2017 by Semir

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

WHAT?

Be lucky if there was less than 5 actual battles where jets even met allied fighters in combat. (its not discovery channel)
 

[=CFC=Conky]

Strafing airfields is like the normal WW2 behaviour especially if you have air superiority. Flak was never that powerful of a deterrent even at Berlin where landing German jets were intercepted on their finals by british aircraft. They even had to launch 109s to provide cover to jets as they were landing - so if you are getting strafed jump into a fighter and drive them away how you are supposed to do it anyway

Actually, strafing airfields was very dangerous. The 262 needed a lot of room to decelerate so their approaches started a fair distance from the airfield, where they were vulnerable to interception. What is needed in the game is to put even more flak on the airfields although that might have a effect on frame rates.

 

In IL2: 1946, putting 8-10 quick firing guns on an airfield pretty much makes it suicide to do more than one strafing run, just like in WW2.

Edited February 9, 2017 by =CFC=Conky

[216th_Jordan]

I actually had an idea. As the AI is targeting primarily the flight leader/highest ranking player this could also be the case for AAA. If you go onto a normal server or review a flight recording of a full real server you will be able to see (not sure if always) a rank mark or something on top of the identifier icon of other players. On the highest ranking players this would be a star (I think). Your rank derives mostly form your single player career, but the server must somehow have this information submitted to him so maybe AAA knows it too.

 

Just an assumption though.

Edited February 9, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

no ill try a mission planner and place extra AAA and flak if i can in defensive rings. 

i want enough so its IMPOSSIBLE to make it to AF (like Aircraft carrier Flak/AAA density on 4 sides.
So maybe rings of 24AAA and 36+ Flak @ 1km 3km 5km..

fps should not be much of issue

[Semir]

no ill try a mission planner and place extra AAA and flak if i can in defensive rings. 

 

i want enough so its IMPOSSIBLE to make it to AF (like Aircraft carrier Flak/AAA density on 4 sides.

So maybe rings of 24AAA and 36+ Flak @ 1km 3km 5km..

 

fps should not be much of issue

 

 

Someone appears to be very salty at getting shot down on take off LOL

I wouldn't care about a bump in AAA for player AF as long as they don't magically respawn 30 seconds after they were destroyed

Edited February 9, 2017 by Semir

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Not salty about being shot down..

More salty when bombers on my team waste time and a bomber to fly 150km to enemy AF to bomb it (get 3 kills that does 0 in all ways ZERO) to help the team
Then suicide into AF would much rather they get destroyed 5km out and never get near so would just give up

[Semir]

Not salty about being shot down..

 

More salty when bombers on my team waste time and a bomber to fly 150km to enemy AF to bomb it (get 3 kills that does 0 in all ways ZERO) to help the team

Then suicide into AF would much rather they get destroyed 5km out and never get near so would just give up

 

 

Adding 16 high alt AAA will be sufficient and won't drain the server frames too much in comparison to high ROF AAA. Bombers don't survive the first pass anyway if they are in range of the fast firing stuff

[unreasonable]

WHAT?

 

Be lucky if there was less than 5 actual battles where jets even met allied fighters in combat. (its not discovery channel)

 

 

This is quite wrong - allied fighters shot down many Me262s, especially when they were attempting to land and were totally helpless. Have a look at this thread for some numbers:

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/german-262s-shot-down.34553/

 

The problem with MP is that too many people just do not care if they die. You can make any adjustments to AA etc that you like and this will not change the underlying behaviour unless there is a strong incentive to live.

 

My proposal is that MP switches to a pay-as-you-fly model. The player must pay for take-off credits in advance. Each time the player chooses an aircraft from the server list, credits are deducted. Pricing can be tweaked to make certain aircraft less attractive. A successful landing at home base refunds credits in full: perhaps a partial deduction if damaged. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by unreasonable

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

No references for that website showing where the info was taken from..

if it was taken from American Battle reports made public
it cannot be trusted as a historical source of information
Same goes for info coming out of RAF , LW & VVS
None of them can be trusted.

The best is independent investigations and so on but thats also hard when only info around is propaganda

Eg,
Take total number of people who died in b=17's than times that but 3-4 to get real factual numbers.
Take the total number of russians in WW2 killed by the enemy then remove about 1/3 that were actually killed by the government via starvation and prison labor

[unreasonable]

No references for that website showing where the info was taken from..

 

if it was taken from American Battle reports made public

it cannot be trusted as a historical source of information

Same goes for info coming out of RAF , LW & VVS

None of them can be trusted.

 

The best is independent investigations and so on but thats also hard when only info around is propaganda

 

Eg,

Take total number of people who died in b=17's than times that but 3-4 to get real factual numbers.

Take the total number of russians in WW2 killed by the enemy then remove about 1/3 that were actually killed by the government via starvation and prison labor

 

Well if USAAF, RAF, LW, VVS and other government reports cannot be trusted, even when assessed by historians, then we can all just make up whatever we want, right?

After all, if the only info around is propaganda, my version of history is just as well documented as yours.

 

Then there is gun camera footage: but wait, this must have been made using Il-2 1946 wonder woman view, right?

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by unreasonable

[Scojo]

Are you talking about Mission AF Straffing?

 

Thats already hard enough

 

No it isn't. If you have just one other aircraft to draw the AAA's attention, you can strafe them without any worries because of the behavior the OP is describing.

 

This thread isn't about needing more AAA, it's about improving the AAA's AI so that it feels more "logical".

 

Right now AAA latches onto the first thing to come into their range for as long as it's in range. They don't prioritize enemy aircraft that are behaving like ones that want to harm the airfield, such as a bomber flying towards the airfield. Also, in some cases it would be logical for each AAA to pick its own target when multiple planes are threatening their area since it will put pressure on all of them on their attack.

 

This is quite wrong - allied fighters shot down many Me262s, especially when they were attempting to land and were totally helpless. Have a look at this thread for some numbers:

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/german-262s-shot-down.34553/

 

The problem with MP is that too many people just do not care if they die. You can make any adjustments to AA etc that you like and this will not change the underlying behaviour unless there is a strong incentive to live.

 

My proposal is that MP switches to a pay-as-you-fly model. The player must pay for take-off credits in advance. Each time the player chooses an aircraft from the server list, credits are deducted. Pricing can be tweaked to make certain aircraft less attractive. A successful landing at home base refunds credits in full: perhaps a partial deduction if damaged. 

 

You're describing Random Expert and TAW.

[unreasonable]

 

 

You're describing Random Expert and TAW.

 

No I am not. I am talking about actual money, not some in game accounting unit that no-one cares about.

[Scojo]

No I am not. I am talking about actual money, not some in game accounting unit that no-one cares about.

I don't know about others, but I'd never touch such a server. ESPECIALLY since I prefer to fly ground attack/bomber.

 

People do care. A lot of people don't want to be constantly relegated to transport missions. in fact that's one of the reasons, along with no GPS, more people flock to WoL instead of those servers. Put in a server that wants real money instead of virtual and even more would stay away lol.

 

And I assume you mean server. I hope you don't mean the sim should enforce such a system

[curiousGamblerr]

I don't know about others, but I'd never touch such a server. ESPECIALLY since I prefer to fly ground attack/bomber.

 

People do care. A lot of people don't want to be constantly relegated to transport missions. in fact that's one of the reasons, along with no GPS, more people flock to WoL instead of those servers. Put in a server that wants real money instead of virtual and even more would stay away lol.

 

And I assume you mean server. I hope you don't mean the sim should enforce such a system

 

Yeah, while I totally get where unreasonable is coming from, I don't think money is the right incentive for a variety of reasons.

 

For me, my personal sense of immersion is still the driving factor, even on TAW where you have to earn aircraft. I hate seeing "... destroyed 19.GIAP//curiousGamblerr" appear in the chat, and getting killed or captured is even worse. So I tend to fly WoL almost exactly like I fly TAW. I don't need to put cash on the table to add to this immersion, and I don't think those who don't already aim for such immersion on their own are going to start paying for it.

 

Again, totally understand where the idea comes from though.

Edited February 10, 2017 by 19.GIAP//curiousGamblerr