IL2 Cliff of Dover now very good!

[Dakpilot]

Agree to disagree then, I find the CoD FMS much more immersive than bos.

Add to that the FM debates revolve around spits being to slow/fast by 10kph etc etc...not about yaks being over 40 kph to fast! TF got their stuff together and nailed it, BoS not so much.

 

At the altitudes flown in BoS the speeds are very close and actually at the operational altitudes it is the BF109 F4 that has the largest performance misalignment, am sure these will be addressed in time...just like CloD, as for the feeling of flight, well I guess that can be a personal thing, no point arguing about which 'feels' more on rails, each to their own

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[CisTer-dB-]

Not knocking what TF have done and I have enjoyed playing Clod but I just find the aircraft too easy to fly and particularly far too easy to land. As much as the FM's have been knocked in BoS I think the "sensation" of flight has been nailed so much better than 95% of other sims.  

 Far from wanted to discredit BoS but the sensation of flight your describing, the, I will call it, the build-in instability, is not how it is when you fly. 

[150GCT_Veltro]

CoD is great now but myself too feel a very bad flight feeling, inconsistent. There is not the feeling to fly in the air, not at all for me. CoD's physic is probably better for a space simulator than a flight sim.

 

However, is good enough to enjoy with friends online.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

Far from wanted to discredit BoS but the sensation of flight your describing, the, I will call it, the build-in instability, is not how it is when you fly.

 

I am not trying to discredit CloD and I'm not sure what you mean by build-in instability in BoS , the problem I have with Clod is the complete opposite of instability. its the landing/flying on on rails effect that I am not too keen on. As I stated in an earlier post I'm not trying to knock what TF or anyone else is doing with Clod but like BoS it's far from perfect and from a personal viewpoint too easy to fly.  

[CisTer-dB-]

Please don't get me wrong OC I am just trying to say that the sensation that you like in BOS. The one take make feel that you fly, well it's not how it is on an aircraft. In fact in a lot's of way CloD is closer to the real thing.  That's all  

 

Clod, BOS, DCS all have their good's and bad's, but for a pilot point of view, that dutch roll effect that we find in BoS is not part of the good

 

Edited April 20, 2015 by 71st_AH_dB

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Please don't get me wrong OC I am just trying to say that the sensation that you like in BOS. The one take make feel that you fly, well it's not how it is on an aircraft. In fact in a lot's of way CloD is closer to the real thing.  That's all  

 

Clod, BOS, DCS all have their good's and bad's, but for a pilot point of view, that dutch roll effect that we find in BoS is not part of the good

 

I do know that this motion is normally well damped in most modern light aircraft but I don't know if it was the case in WWII aircraft? I do like a nice decent discussion   

Edited April 20, 2015 by OriginalCustard

[Hoots]

I'd agree with you oc. You can also get away with not using coordinated rudder and aileron in clod but adverse yaw is pretty well modelled in bos. Of course I've no idea how much adverse yaw you get in a ww2 era plane but pilot reports seem to say there was some. I like clod but the planes do seem to fly hands off rather too well, maybe it's just that air instability in clod is underdone?

[Original_Uwe]

Or overdone in BoS, where is our confederate air force rep?

[CisTer-dB-]

I do know that this motion is normally well damped in most modern light aircraft but I don't know if it was the case in WWII aircraft? I do like a nice decent discussion   

No need for damping, dutch roll is a high speed, high altitude, swept wing problem. You won't have that on WWII machine   

[Hoots]

Or overdone in BoS, where is our confederate air force rep?

Maybe, who knows. I'm sure there was at least some though, there's a video clip of a spit rolling away where it's quite pronounced, and my point was that it doesn't seem to occur in clod.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

No need for damping, dutch roll is a high speed, high altitude, swept wing problem. You won't have that on WWII machine   

Here is where I got my info about dutch roll from an article by Scott Williams 

 

http://aviationglossary.com/

 

 

Dutch roll

 

A Dutch Roll is a combination of rolling and yawing (coupled lateral/directional) oscillations that normally occurs when the dihedral effects of an aircraft are more powerful than the directional stability. Usually dynamically stable but objectionable in an airplane because of the oscillatory nature. The damping of the oscillatory mode may be weak or strong depending on the properties of the particular aircraft.

 

If the aircraft has a right wing pushed down, the positive sideslip angle corrects the wing laterally before the nose is realigned with the relative wind. As the wing corrects the position, a lateral directional oscillation can occur resulting in the nose of the aircraft making a figure eight on the horizon as a result of two oscillations (roll and yaw), which, although of about the same magnitude, are out of phase with each other.

 

 

In most modern aircraft, except high-speed swept wing designs, these free directional oscillations usually die out automatically in very few cycles unless the air continues to be gusty or turbulent. Those aircraft with continuing Dutch roll tendencies are usually equipped with gyro-stabilized yaw dampers. Manufacturers try to reach a midpoint between too much and too little directional stability. Because it is more desirable for the aircraft to have “spiral instability” than Dutch roll tendencies, most aircraft are designed with that characteristic.

 

 

I'm not sure if the dutch roll "effect" that you refer to with regard to BoS could be attributed to high wind or turbulence settings on some servers. Two servers that I regularly fly on are Wings of Liberty and Eagles Nest, both seem to have at times very high wind and turbulence settings and the aircraft can oscillate when pulling turns. I have used other servers where there is little or no wind and the aircraft have been more stable.

 

I know little of aircraft engineering but its just a layman guess.  

[Hoots]

No need for damping, dutch roll is a high speed, high altitude, swept wing problem. You won't have that on WWII machine

 

Are you sure? Think it's a phenomenon that can affect pretty much any aircraft.

[303_Kwiatek]

At the altitudes flown in BoS the speeds are very close and actually at the operational altitudes it is the BF109 F4 that has the largest performance misalignment, am sure these will be addressed in time...just like CloD, as for the feeling of flight, well I guess that can be a personal thing, no point arguing about which 'feels' more on rails, each to their own

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Dunno why you spread such bs....?    You surly know that the most overperforming planes in BOS are Yak-1 and Lagg-3.   109 F is far behind. [Edited]

Edited April 20, 2015 by Bearcat
You have no proof of that claim whatsoever.

[LukeFF]

 You surly know that the most overperforming planes in BOS are Yak-1 and Lagg-3.   109 F is far behind. [Edited]

 

You really need to stop being [Edited] and bringing national bias claims into all of your arguments about why you don't like BoS.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Bearcat

[6./ZG26_Custard]

You surly know that the most overperforming planes in BOS are Yak-1 and Lagg-3.

 

I have been flying the G2 a lot more recently, I was predominantly flying the LaGG-3 and I have to say from personal experience the G2 seems to be the best aircraft in this sim. It climbs like a rocket and when used at altitude it's got great performance.  

Edited April 20, 2015 by OriginalCustard

[303_Kwiatek]

You really need to stop being [Edited] and bringing national bias claims into all of your arguments about why you don't like BoS.

 

 

[Edited]

You the same like Dakpilot know very good that Yak-1 and Lagg-3 are most overperforiming planes in BOS.  At least im not biased and can be objective here in contrary to people like you.  You are betatester so you should be more objective,  think about it instead insulting people who want realism and historical accuracy.

 

I think you know very well these topic and other similar:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/15231-isa-speed-testing-all-fighters-game

 

 

 

So maby dont be blind fanboy and dont spread bs.... here.  

I have been flying the G2 a lot more recently, I was predominantly flying the LaGG-3 and I have say from personal experience the G2 seems to be the best aircraft in this sim. It climbs like a rocket and when used at altitude it's got great performance.  

 

You know that historical  Yak-1 69 series got maximum climb rate 15 m/s at maximum power?  You know that Fw 190 A-3 got 16 m/s at 1.3 Ata and at emergency power got about 18 m/s?   F-4 at 1.3 Ata got 18.5 m/s and G-2 at 1.3 Ata got 21 m/s? 

 

In game Yak-1 got better climb rate that Fw 190 A-3 and is litle behind F-4 where F-4 got IRL much better climb rate, not mention G-2.

 

Get also ovedone maximum dive speeds of Russian planes, overdone roll rates of La5 and Lagg-3 and of course arcadish flying Yak-1 with flaps down.

 

Dont tell me that these game is not balanced regarding flight model and peformacne of these planes.

 

But [Edited] never will be objective and always will spread such bs... trying to insult people whose see things like the are.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Bearcat

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

not mention G-2.

 

I know you didn't I was just giving a personal viewpoint, but it does seem to be the best aircraft overall in IMHO.

[LukeFF]

Troll? If for you saying truth is trolling well i think you got a problem.

 

If you don't think that "devs don't want it to be historical correct. Or rather they choose soviets propaganda accuracy" isn't trolling, then I can't help you. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by LukeFF

[303_Kwiatek]

Fanaticism or ignorance never will help anybody. Dunno why are you betatester for these game.

 

At least TF for CLOD base on historical not biased data and don't want to be balance for any side.  These is one big adventage which probably will be never reach by BOS devs.

Edited April 20, 2015 by 303_Kwiatek

[Jason_Williams]

I let this roll for a long time, but personal attacks and false claims about the devs killed it. This thread was about CLOD and not CLOD vs. BOS. Such wrong turns only lead to locks.

 

Jason