F/JG300_Gruber Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Might be time to dust off BOS. I just hope all the "Luftwhiner" energy can be turned into pushing the Devs to give us a Ju87D-5 Oooooooh YES !
Blutaar Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 I was really surprised by the new patch and i love it, thx devs. Both, the 190 and the 110g are great, the 190 feels alot better now and i really hope its not just another FM bug which gets fixed/nerfed later. Im just in fear of losing it now because it may be to good, you know what i mean, anyway good work and a big thx also to the community who did so much work and finally convinced the devs to fix this FM, without you we may never get that fix i dont know. I hope the devs will invest resources to AI programming in the near future after BoK release, for me a good AI is a must have in this genre no matter if SP or MP, we both need it. Keep up the good work.
Finkeren Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) Just had a short stint online for the first time in 2.007. Absolutely great. We got our asses handed to us by a 50/50 mixture of 109s and 190s working in teams. It was a sight to behold. The 190s could maneuver with our Yaks for a short while, then disengage at will (that acceleration ) They never seemed short on energy and I think I saw only one crash due to pilot error. Almost everyone used MG-FF cannon in the wings The Fw 190 has been reborn online, and for us who have to fight them it brings a sense of fear (it's now a very, very good fighter in skilled hands) combined with joy (Yay! Something to fight other than an endless stream of Bf 109F4s) and tingling sensation of pure dread (Oh ****! The Fw 190A5 is coming! ) Edited February 1, 2017 by Finkeren 2
KoN_ Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Thank you ` i now can spit-s and drive away and roll and pull roll over hi - low yo-yos . Its nice to be back .
Blutaar Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Maybe now is the right time to learn MP, looks like my favorite ww2 plane is now a noob friendly aircraft like it was back then i think, correct me if im wrong? Im afraid haha, such a noob.
Finkeren Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Maybe now is the right time to learn MP, looks like my favorite ww2 plane is now a noob friendly aircraft like it was back then i think, correct me if im wrong? Im afraid haha, such a noob. Well, you can always count on me being an easy target As for "noob friendly" I'm not sure really. It's certainly easy now to jump into and fly around in without getting yourself killed. But using it effectively still requires much more skill, tactical sense, discipline and thinking ahead than the 109 rocket ship or the Yak merry-go-round.
MAJ_stug41 Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Seems they can patch the game, but not the players; another 190 thread devolved to disaster. 1
Turban Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) The FW went from being "limited" to being one of the best fighters in the game. The hand brake is off! Cheer on ! No more speed loss whenever you look at the stick !! Hardest part will be to find one available on WOL ! Edited February 1, 2017 by Turban 2
Blutaar Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Well, you can always count on me being an easy target As for "noob friendly" I'm not sure really. It's certainly easy now to jump into and fly around in without getting yourself killed. But using it effectively still requires much more skill, tactical sense, discipline and thinking ahead than the 109 rocket ship or the Yak merry-go-round. Yeah but that is true for all or at least most planes, the 190 never was an exception in any game.
Finkeren Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Yeah but that is true for all or at least most planes, the 190 never was an exception in any game. Nope, the 190 isn't exceptional in this, but I'd definitely use the term "noob friendly" only about the Bf 109s and the Yaks.
Blutaar Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Ok i guess you are right, the Yak flys like a dream and if the whobble on 109s where not there i would probably say the same.
3./JG15_Kampf Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 The hand brake is of Cheer on ! Hardest part will be to find one available on WOL ! Before when the fw was broken there were already restrictions on maps for 190. Now the few that have will be exhausted soon. Now the Fw 190 has put fear in the Reds Congratulations to the DEVS for the update, great work Ops: I think at speeds above 550km / h, the elevator has lost efficiency compared to the previous version 1
Blutaar Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Before when the fw was broken there were already restrictions on maps for 190. Now the few that have will be exhausted soon. Now the Fw 190 has put fear in the Reds Congratulations to the DEVS for the update, great work Ops: I think at speeds above 550km / h, the elevator has lost efficiency compared to the previous version Yes i thought the same with the elevator effectiveness but im happy with how it is now, better leave it before screwing it up again.
3./JG15_Kampf Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Yes i thought the same with the elevator effectiveness but im happy with how it is now, better leave it before screwing it up again. Yes, I do not want to change anything (at least now). It's just my impression that I would like to share with the community. I see yaks accompanying the Fw in elevator curves at high speeds. But the yaks can not keep up with the roll at those same speeds. More is my impression. I do not want to derail the topic 1
Dakpilot Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Those members of this community who handed over their hard earned cash in the expectation of flying something that replicated the original had every right to express their disappointment. That disappointment turned to exasperation when concerns were met with a wall of denial, hostility and obfuscation from those individuals who, although probably never having flown the plane, did everything they could to ridicule and attack those people who sought to have it reviewed. Even though the FM was clearly broken that situation was allowed to fester for getting on for two years and in all probability has irreparably damaged relations within the community. Even now you persist in denying the obvious and attacking those who sought change. Well, who was proven right in the end (clue) - not you guys What a load of drama llama codswallop see Borys' post above for a more realistic and factual view Cheers Dakpilot 1
EAF_Apollo Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Also as for other aircraft there is still the issue of the rudder roll relation. Absolutely. We know it's getting fixed, but since they said they wanted to do it for all aircraft at once, I think we'll have to wait a bit. My money's on them doing it in the two month period in late Summer, where there are no scheduled updates. What's this? Rudder Roll relation?
ShamrockOneFive Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 What's this? Rudder Roll relation? When you use the rudder and the aircraft rolls. Details in this Dev Diary: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=405724
curiousGamblerr Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Went up against the 190 twice today and what people are saying about being able to keep on target is absolutely correct. Both times I made moves to ruin shots that would have absolutely worked with the old FM and both times I was hit and damaged enough to run home. The butcher bird certainly deserves the name now. Good stuff! 1
EAF_Apollo Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 When you use the rudder and the aircraft rolls. Details in this Dev Diary: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=405724 Thanks Shamrock. I'll check it out. Cheers.
216th_Jordan Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I want all of the FMs to be as accurate as possible in relative performance, not just the platforms I fly in the most. I think we need to keep our feet on the ground here. I would love fixes/improvements for all other planes but they generally seem to perform alright and well within the devs self set margin of error. FW190 was very off and needed to be fixed but this was a heap of work. It was stated that this is an exception rather than the rule. Its just not affordable.. If there is a serious issue it needs fixing otherwise we have to live with it. 2
Finkeren Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I think we need to keep our feet on the ground here. I would love fixes/improvements for all other planes but they generally seem to perform alright and well within the devs self set margin of error. FW190 was very off and needed to be fixed but this was a heap of work. It was stated that this is an exception rather than the rule. Its just not affordable.. If there is a serious issue it needs fixing otherwise we have to live with it. Agreed, though I still think they should get on the Yak-1 and Bf 109F4 overperformance, if Gavrick has some time to spare at one point. 3
TWC_Ace Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Agreed, though I still think they should get on the Yak-1 and Bf 109F4 overperformance, if Gavrick has some time to spare at one point. LOL Fink Im already struggling in Yak1...on a tight more serious note...What do you think is overperforming in Yak and F4? Edited February 2, 2017 by blackram
Finkeren Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 LOL Fink Im already struggling in Yak1...on a tight more serious note...What do you think is overperforming in Yak and F4? I don't think anything, but more talented people than me have run tests which apparently show, that both the Yak-1 and the F4 are too fast at altitude. Not by that much, and it's not a big issue, but it's still worth looking at at some point.
Matt Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I think taxiing has changed too btw, I'm having way less trouble with it than before. Though I'm not sure what changes could've affected that.
216th_Jordan Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Agreed, though I still think they should get on the Yak-1 and Bf 109F4 overperformance, if Gavrick has some time to spare at one point. Sure, one can dream.
303_Kwiatek Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) LOL Fink Im already struggling in Yak1...on a tight more serious note...What do you think is overperforming in Yak and F4? Yak1, Yak-1B, Lagg3 ( all M-105 PF engines), 109 F-4 overperformed in speed at high alts. Also there is no need to adjust mixture in Russian engines above full throttle height ( engine dont over rich). Also Mig3 (which is late series) is too fast at deck about 25 kph. Other hand who want to fly planes which would be very historically corrected I mean in real life combat even much worse plane have more chance to win casue combat is so dynamically with G load and pilots fatigue which is hard to simulate by game. If all planes would be modeled with historical spec Russian planes in game would have very low chance to win any fight in 1941/1942 which IRL still have more chance to win casue of aspects which game couldn't simulate now. There is no secret that in 1941-1942 German planes overperformed all Russian fighters in near all area. For comparison all Yak-1 fighters with M-105PF engines need full radiator open during climb to prevent overheating which for example gave Yak-1 69 series only maximum 15 m/s climb rate ( not 17 m/s like in game). Russian could fight in equal terms at low alts from 1943 with Yak-1B, Yak-9 and La5F fighters which were very good low altitude fighters. ( LA5F was even faster then 109s and more equal to Fw 190 A at low alts) Some interesting notes about Yak-1 M-105 PF engines ( by Russian test and pilots) - just for more knowledge " However, despite all the advantages of the formulation of the new engine ( M-105 PF), the Yak-1 deteriorated further operation of the cooling system, which is simply not cope with the increased heat dissipation. When tested in the 236th IAP seven Yak-1 with the motors M-105Pa, readjust to the increased boost, it turned out that the flight to the rated speed of the engine and a maximum speed with flaps radiators installed in the "downstream" shall not exceed two minutes to withstand operating limit temperature of water and oil; and climb even under full throttle, the radiators were not possible without grounds for cooling the engine every 2500 ... ... 3000 m. And this is normal for an average strip summer outside temperatures near the ground 18-23 ° C. When testing two cars (number 1549, 1643) of the seven pilots of the Air Force Institute confirmed this characteristic VMG. As shown by comparative flight tests of Yak-1 number 3673, 1474, 4174, 2175, 2675, 0676, 1376, 1676, 2076, 2276 with new and old water and maslogondolami ended July 3, 1942, tangible improvements in the systems motor cooling are not allowed. For normal operation in parts have been instructed to limit the engine speed to 2250 rev / min in horizontal flight at maximum speed at altitudes below shift height supercharger, and up to 2600 rev / min to climb during the first ten hours of operation. This is partially lost the advantage achieved by the installation of M-105PF, manifested as time at low altitudes. This lack of cooling system has become chronic. Carried March 12, 1943 the test Yak-1 number 02119, 20120, 10123, 17124, 38124, 17125, 25125, 11126, 29126 again confirmed the conclusion that it does not provide the normal temperature in the air at top speed. Poor performance VMG has become one of the main reasons for obtaining evaluation "unsatisfactory" under control tests in NII VVS machines number 04111, 07127. However, despite this, the issue of aircraft did not stop, and all the problems once again fell on the shoulders of flight and technical staff. " Insturction by VVS pilot how to manage Yak fighters : " When you climb to the maximum rate of climb mode radiator valves must be open fully. Any other position they can not be referring to the engine overheating. But if the outside air temperature or the heat of the motor allowed on any airplane to climb at the position of "downstream" gates, while the climb 5000 m would be reduced by approximately 0.2 minutes." BTw it would be nice if devs improve mixture managment in Russian engines above FTH, and check Mig3 data ( actually we got mix performacne from early series produced before war without slats and other prop and reduction gear with late type which got detoriated performacne about 20-30 kph slowier depend of alt) Edited February 2, 2017 by 303_Kwiatek 2
Dakpilot Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Some interesting notes about Yak-1 M-105 PF engines ( by Russian test and pilots) - just for more knowledge For more knowledge am sure people would be interested in the source of these quotes to read more and get better context Cheers Dakpilot
unreasonable Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 On the Yak cooling - just playing Juri's Yak campaign I found that I most certainly had to back off from full throttle climb to avoid overheat with full open radiators - on the summer/autumn map. At about 3km.
303_Kwiatek Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) For more knowledge am sure people would be interested in the source of these quotes to read more and get better context Cheers Dakpilot Sure. I found very good Russian site about these with a lot of stuff about Russian planes performance and development, test and data http://www.airpages.ru/eng/index.html Some things ( exampe about Yaks operating notes are in russian so its need to use translator) https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=pl&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.pl&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.airpages.ru/dc/doc100.shtml&usg=ALkJrhhQ84TuIywM9K2siF2gMDurxJc47A Also Gordon, Khazanow book " Soviets combat aircraft of WW2 " is very good https://www.amazon.com/Soviet-Combat-Aircraft-Second-World/dp/1857800834 Edited February 2, 2017 by 303_Kwiatek
Blutaar Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Maybe some issue with the cooling limits, the manuel says max water cooling 100c but ingame overheat warning apears at 115c if i remember correct.
SJ_Butcher Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Glad that they corrected this plane, I would love to have better FMs close as much (IRL) as they can. The most important things in a sim is the following: FM Physics Content Online Graphics I am sure that the devs prioritize the content over FM which is bad I think, but they need the money so I understand it too. I hope in the future every plane that come outs have the best FM close to IRL to avoid all this problems.
6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I will open a Thread Testing the Yak and MiG Claims. 1
JtD Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I think taxiing has changed too btw, I'm having way less trouble with it than before. Though I'm not sure what changes could've affected that.The change in centre of gravity to a more forward position also improves ground handling. If you can feel it, great, and you can be sure it's not placebo.
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