I'm having one of those hair pulling problems....

[Gambit21]

I have an AI Ju52 flight (AI leader of player flight behaves the same way on auto pilot) deleting upon landing instead of taxiing.

Yes I made sure that the airfield is set to the proper country, nothing is amiss with the command land, taxi waypoints.

 

 

In fact, I copied everything and pasted it into a new mission and the aircraft behaves as it should..it lands and taxis.

Then when I paste that group back into my mission, it lands and deletes again.

 

Further, this is a completely BLANK lake-bed airfield on the Moscow map in both cases, there are not more objects, blocks, vehicles, aircraft

etc in the mission itself vs the pasted version that worked properly that could be causing interference or aberrant behavior.

I could see if one version was full of placed objects etc, then I'd have something to trouble shoot..but this simulating an off-field landing, so

there's nothing else around.

 

Same airfield, same airfield object, same everything - no other changes.

So done for the night, tomorrow I get to trouble shoot and figure out what's going. - out of ideas though for the moment.

If anyone has an idea, or has seen this before - please let me know.

[Gambit21]

I'll bet I have a conflicting neutral airfield placed there, in another group....

I always think of this stuff when I walk away and take a shower.

 

If not I'll just paste the rest of the mission into the new mission and get on with life.

[Gambit21]

Yep - duplicate airfield

[Gambit21]

Interesting - deleting the duplicate airfield in the mission didn't solve the problem.

I even deleted the other airfield and pasted in a new one for good measure. I made sure it was linked, set to Germany - still the same problem. I used the 'find' function as well to make sure I wasn't missing anything. So this afternoon I'll paste the other elements of the mission into the new/working test version mentioned above.

 

Easy enough fix, but I don't like not knowing what the problem is.

Like I said the airfield in question is basically bare at this point.

[Gambit21]

OK - everything was working...then it broke again.

Started over with a clean map, added my groups one by one until it broke, it hasn't yet...operating as you would expect.

 

I think I've narrowed it down to something in one of the Moscow templates - Towns, Cities, Churches, airfields etc.

I have everything back in except for the native stuff, and everything is working normally.

 

I'll save this working version and import those other groups in tomorrow and see what breaks it.

[TP_Jacko]

Maybe run the integrity check to see if anything odd is indicated.

[Jade_Monkey]

Thats just how the game is designed. After reaching the last point of the taxiing the planes disappear. You are not doing anything wrong.

[Gambit21]

I mean they land and delete before taxiing at that particular airfield

[Urra]

Maybe just move the taxi path a few meters left or right. There might some sort of map offset issue with that airfield( grass where it shouldn't be or just offset runway where it shouldn't be...?)

[Gambit21]

I have it working without the imported Moscow objects - so something hiding in one of those is breaking it - but just at this location.

For this mission I can leave thise objects out - but I'm curious about which one is breaking this airfield.

 

Especially since taxi behavior should be dependent on the fakefield MCU and it's points.

So I'll import the Moscow groups one by one later and see which one causes the land/delete immediately behavior.

[TP_Jacko]

Occasionally you can get a rouge group thats corrupted.

[Gambit21]

Thanks Jacko

[unreasonable]

Occasionally you can get a rouge group thats corrupted.

 

You certainly can.

[Gambit21]

Interesting - pasting every single group back into a new mission, including the Moscow groups did not break this airfield again.

I was disappointed as I wanted the mystery solved.

 

What did break it again after hours of further work was placing a second airfield MCU - even set to neutral.

 

What's even more interesting - deleting the second airfield MCU still leaves the airfield itself broken as before - aircraft will not taxi after landing. So I was right about an airfield MCU being the issue as it turns out - just in an unexpected way.

Definite bug.

 

OF COURSE this is the one airfield where I need a second airfield MCU.

[Habu]

Gambit, if i understand, you have 2 airfield object on an airfield ?

 

If i am right, you have to set the taxi path for both airfield object, if you don't, Ai are doom and took one taxi path which could be the wrong one.

[Gambit21]

Yes two airfield MCU's at the same location.

I'll send you an example when I get a chance later today.

 

They don't taxi at all when the second airfield is added (with taxi points set) - they land - stop and delete.

This second airfield was set to neutral, the primary to German.

 

Here's the most important part Habu.

Even after the second airfield MCU is deleted and no longer present on the map, but only the German airfield - the aircraft no longer taxi after landing.

 

Whereas before I added the second airfield they were behaving normally. I've duplicated this twice now.

 

Only repasting everything into a new mission (minus the second airfield) fixes this location.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Gambit21

[Habu]

Ok, send me an exemple, i will have a look.

[Gambit21]

Just PM'd you Habu.

 

So in case anyone else has this problem.

Pasting the entire mission group into a new mission 'un-breaks' things and the aircraft land and taxi normally.

This tells me I'm not dealing with user error.

 

There is definitely a bug at some locations that causes this behavior.

[Gambit21]

Just emailed you the latest broken mission Habu

 

Let me stress this.

I was working perfectly for maybe 15 tests in a row. The AI Ju52 would land, taxi, park, spawn the new Ju52 which would start up and take off.

Then suddenly on my last test the Ju52 would just land and delete again.

 

This time the 'not enabled' Ju52 that spawns when the landed Ju52 parks is not visible, as should be the case. So that isn't broken this time.

However the landing/taxiing broke again.

 

I did nothing between the last good test and when the mission broke other than change the weather and place another complex trigger in the airfield piped into a subtext. That's it - didn't mess with the airfield MCU's or anything else at all. I deleted the latest complex trigger (even though it should have nothing to do with the aircraft taxi behavior) but the mission stayed broken

in this location.

 

This time pasting into a new mission did not fix the problem.

 

Go to F12 and watch the AI Ju52 come in and land...takes a second.

Go to 8X.

[Gambit21]

Habu,

 

I just sent you the same group, same mission - just pasted into a new mission file.

This time it once again fixed things. So you have an example of broken taxi behavior and working taxi behavior. 

Same group, same mission...just different mission file.

 

The only difference is the new mission file is a different time of day and weather.

Again, sometimes this also breaks the visible/enabled function of the aircraft, not just taxi/delete behavior. Don't forget that.

[Gambit21]

Habu - if it will help, tomorrow I can send both missions with all of the extra groups removed.

I ran out of time today.

 

However F12 will take you to Kolodezi in both missions. Also I've reproduced these problems at another location as well.

[Gambit21]

OK - I got somewhere on this problem just now.

Rather than just reporting "It broke again for some reason WHAAAAA!!!"

 

I figured I'd better be systematic about this...so...I'm treating this like I do my 3D files.

Saving iterations as I go, every time I make a change.

 

I have some results.

 

Mission 3_6_0 = working

Mission 3_6_1 - Changed Complex trigger position on airfield result - working

Mission 3_6_2 - Changed Time..result - working

Mission 3_6_3 Changed weather to snow...result - BROKE

 

The aircraft now lands and deletes.

I will again point out the other problem if the aircraft not spawning correctly with a complex trigger that pops up.

I didn't get that result this time, but did break the landing/taxi behavior.

 

I will send 3_6_2 to you, as well as 3_6_3

I'm still not clear if you're seeing this same behaviors in the samples I've sent you.

Now however I have two missions where only ONE change was made between working and broken.

 

Again 3_6_2 = working as it should

3_6_3 = landing and taxi behavior broken (land and delete)

 

Again...go to F12 to see this.

 

Look for them in your email.

 

Jim

[Gambit21]

...also, please let me know when you can if this is something you'll be reporting, or if I should report to Han.

I'd rather you did it, since I know he'll listen to you in good time, but I'll be happy to do it myself as well.

[Gambit21]

So,weather setting that broke things in the above mentioned mission (that you now have Habu)

Overcast 01

Snow 5

Wind 240 @ 5mps

 

I've moved on sans snow for the moment so that I can finally finish the mission. I've been waylaid for

enough work sessions due to this behavior for now.

However I will circle back to the 3_6_2 version and try snow 1, or 2 etc and see if the problem still occurs.

It might even be the cloud or wind setting for all I know. All I've ruled out is time of day.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Gambit21

[Gambit21]

Snow Level to 1, overcast 01,  no wind (will add that next) and behavior returns to normal.

[Habu]

...also, please let me know when you can if this is something you'll be reporting, or if I should report to Han. I'd rather you did it, since I know he'll listen to you in good time, but I'll be happy to do it myself as well.

Do the report, because i'm not sure having time to try to reproduce it.

 

If i can take time, i will add a report.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Habu

[Habu]

Gambit, i took time to have a look, and i think that the problem could be link to your timer, which could explain that one time it works, and another time not.

 

I wouldn't use the same timer to change the nationality from one airfield and another airfield as taxing path are not the same. So at the same time 2 taxing path can be present. Ant the spawn of the new plane is at the same time too.

 

So at T0, you have 1 plane which spawn and should taxi but at the same time you have 2 path for taxing.

 

I send you by mail what i would do.

 

PS : If you can avoid timer with 0s, use at least 2s. We already have problem on rof mission with timer set on 0s.

 

PS 2 : Be carrefull, the land command define where AI plane land and the axe. So you have to set them in the right way. On your problem airfield, you have 2 command land which don't have teh same landing axe.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Habu

[Habu]

 

 

Snow Level to 1, overcast 01, no wind (will add that next) and behavior returns to normal.

 

I'm on it, and i'm doing some test since that morning and will report 2 problems (i found another one searching to solve yours).

 

I can reproduce your problem with your mission and a blanck mission build only for the test.

 

The problem is in the wind speed. I'll tell you more when i have finish my test.

[Habu]

Ok Gambit, i finished my test.

 

As i said, the problem is the wind speed. As soon the wind speed is set to 5 or above, the JU52 will not taxing after it lands (i tested with 109G2 and it doesn't have the problem). It'll land and stop its engines as soon it lands and disapeared. I reported the problem to the dev. The problem is nt link to Moscow map or the kind of airfield, because i can reproduce it on hard airfield on Lapino.

 

Anyway, i send you the mission with the change i'll do if i was the mission builder to avoid any other problem, as i said you in one of my previous post.

[Gambit21]

Wind - ok then.

Thank you for the help.

 

It took me a while to close in on this because it just didn't occur to me for the longest time that it could possibly

be weather settings.

[Habu]

Honnestly, at the begining, i though it was the special configuration you want to use. I didn't think that the wind speed could cause a bug. On the mission i send you, you'll find how i work for debug. It help a lot. Use subtittle for action and you know where you have the problem. And the best is to delete all th other element and work only on the part where you have a problem.

 

For information, I did 6 versions of your working mission, and build 2 missions from scratch, with one which have 11 versions, to find the bug, and almost all the day doing only that.

 

And the bug seems to be only for the JU52, i ddidn't test all the planes. That's why i told you that we can't prevent all the bug. We try, but sometimes there are some which are very special that can take some times to discover it and find what is the problem.

[Gambit21]

Habu - as an aside.

It seems the AI will land from the direction defined by the placement of the German airfield MCU of course. Nothing surprising there.

 

However the number 2 plane happily lands from the direction of his leader and taxis using the same waypoints even though by this time, the lead plane has landed, parked, and triggered the airfield swap with different waypoints (which is also facing in the opposite direction)

This is good. Seems the landing logic is passed down from the leader even if the airfield changes.

 

A second flight coming in will land from the new direction defined by the swapped airfield.

 

So for taxi purposes proximity of the command land to the waypoints seems to take precedence over whether the airfield MCU is German or neutral.

 

This is all good - no problem but rather a rare break in the user's favor.

 

I'll comment on the 0 timers later - I hate typing on my phone.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Gambit21

[Gambit21]

Honnestly, at the begining, i though it was the special configuration you want to use. I didn't think that the wind speed could cause a bug. On the mission i send you, you'll find how i work for debug. It help a lot. Use subtittle for action and you know where you have the problem. And the best is to delete all th other element and work only on the part where you have a problem.

 

For information, I did 6 versions of your working mission, and build 2 missions from scratch, with one which have 11 versions, to find the bug, and almost all the day doing only that.

 

And the bug seems to be only for the JU52, i ddidn't test all the planes. That's why i told you that we can't prevent all the bug. We try, but sometimes there are some which are very special that can take some times to discover it and find what is the problem.

 

I appreciate your efforts.

All is working as it should..minus the wind...which I really want in that mission. 

[Habu]

 

 

All is working as it should..minus the wind...which I really want in that mission

At that moment, the bug is present, but now that i know what to check, be sure that i will check it for the next beta if it's not fix in the current one, and i'll report it until it's fix. 

 

So, keep in mind that you have to change the wind speed when it will be fix.

 

I wrote some informations on the search only to show (not just for you, but to all who read that post) that finding a bug is not enough, and that some work is need untill the dev fix it. It's a meaning to share you how we work as beta tester (it's not a way to make us complain), and explain why it could take time to find the cause. Many bugs are report, and some players complain they report a bug and it's not fix. It's not we don't care, it's because we don't reproduce it (which don't mean that the bug doesn't exist) and can't give some strong informations to the dev. Beta tester are players and mission builder too, so problems that players have is our problems too, but even if try to detect all the problem we can during beta test, can't detect all of them. As you can see reporting a bug is fine, but without knowing which cause the bug don't help, because there could be many possibility for the bug, and sometimes it's things that we don't suspect.

 

Finding a bug is fine.

Finding a bug and knowing why there is a bug is better because dev do not spend time to search what is the problem. When they know exactly what is the problem, they can fix easier. I don't say that it's easier to fix it, but it's easier in the way that they know where to look in the code to fix it.

 

That's why it's very important to know some information (it's why we ask many questions sometimes, and some are based on our experience, even if you think there is no link with the problem you found. If you read again my previous posts, i asked you if you tested with another plane, i already have in mind that it could be link only to the JU52) about bugs to try to reproduce it.