Is Forced Feedback Worth the Transition?

[BornToBattle]

Just wondering, since it sounds like it may add a bit of deeper immersion to the game(s). I've had my old CH Products yoke, stick and peddles since the '90's and have been quite frankly flawless. Love them. But I began thinking about how forced feedback may add another level realism to flying or then perhaps it wouldn't be worth it for whatever reason.

 

I've never owned anything but CH Products and have never flown with a force feedback. Any examples of what one experiences? I would imagine it would be available in both stick and yoke. What's the "weapons of choice" out there with everyone when it comes to forced feedback and ease of mapping? I thrive on realism. I also fly civilian sims too so what's your take on this?

 

Thank you in advance!

Edited January 9, 2017 by BornToBattle

[Bando]

As far as I know there are no manufacturers making a FFB joystick at the moment.

Logitech made a Hotas with FFB, but I believe it is not the best on the market (don't know, I do not own one) and there's the Microsoft FFB 2 stick.

The MSFFB2 is an old stick, very good potmeters were used and (like the one I own) still work flawless. If you can buy one on the internet, you could consider that.

Mine is collecting dust, for I switched to the warthog with a 20cm extension.

[Lusekofte]

There are for Yokes, but to get proper quality they cost about 1800€ 

Here is one of the best

 

I am not sure if it work with this software, I am considering buying a yoke in addition to my stick , 

[Tomsk]

I love my MS Sidewinder 2 FFB, really communicates to you about the speed you are at, and what your plane is doing. It's a real shame none of the new sticks are FFB, I would pay good money for something of Warthog quality with FFB.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Tomsk

[Thad]

No current FFB joysticks in production? Unfortunate.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I love my MS Sidewinder 2 FFB, really communicates to you about the speed you are at, and what your plane is doing. It's a real shame none of the new sticks are FFB, I would pay good money for something of Warthog quality with FFB.

 

+1 to that.

[BOO]

Think less about immersion and more about feel really. The MS Sidewinder FF and its communication of speed and approaching stalls is really good. Other FFB effects can me a bit "meh" but the overall stick in hand stability and accuracy is very very good.  it can sometimes act odd but not a big issue to sort very quickly whilst staying in the game. Once sorted it stays sorted for the session.

 

If you play WW2 or early DCS jets exclusively (the FFB  in some of the modules is great) then its one to consider. If you also fly modern aircraft in sims then the lack of buttons may limit you. You can mod it but that is a voodoo i cannot bring myself to risk a stick on! :-)

 

If you go this route be careful what you buy - you want the MS Sidewinder FF 2. the "2" is important at the original was a game port connector. And dont confuse the sidewinder FFB with the MS Precision (another really good cheap stick second hand but no FFB). If you are patient you can sometimes pick up a bargain but usually someone else will want it too so dont go thinking this is like a $5 supabuy. Ebay is probably the worst place to find a bargain now as everyone can soon see what they are worth. 

 

Finally there was a red trigger model with funny sticky grip coating that some say is better (probable that it was just a less abused and newer stick they tried, my red trigger feels no different to my standard stick) - The sticky grip is "mingin" but can be removed.

 

Regards

 

BOO

[Lusekofte]

MS sidewinder is gaining popularity, I know people bought 3 on eBay so they have a spare when one brake down. I had one years ago. Very good. Many say it is the best table joystick ever built. And other say the patent is about to go out. So we might see someone build it. 

I have not checked, but I know some flying cod bought on eBay not too long ago

[javelina]

No current FFB joysticks in production? Unfortunate.

 

Indeed!

[BOO]

The BEST thing about the sidewinder is that you can buy one for the average price on Ebay and, if it doesnt suit, sell it again for the same price :-)

[BornToBattle]

Wow. I always was under the assumption that forced feedback was a bit more cutting edge with being able to feel what is happening via the stick , etc. Hard to believe nobody makes one now. Why wasn't it more popular? Was it due to their price range or simply nobody gave a hoot?

[Sgt_Joch]

I had a force feedback stick at one time, may have been the sidewinder. I personally never liked it, since I found the stick itself was not very accurate. I returned it after a few days.

 

Even without force feedback, it is easy to tell when you are getting close to a stall or the limits of your AC by the sound, visual and AC performance clue.

 

I personally love CH gear. I used to have a gameport fighterstick/pro throttle/pro pedal combo I used for years. I replaced it with a Thustmaster Cougar which I used for a long time.

 

A few years back, after looking at various sticks, I re-purchased a USB CH fighterstick/pro throttle combo as a backup to the Cougar, but I liked it so much it is my primary stick and the Cougar is now the backup.

 

From a cost/benefit "most bang for your buck" point of view, you can't go wrong with CH gear.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Sgt_Joch

[BornToBattle]

From a cost/benefit "most bang for your buck" point of view, you can't go wrong with CH gear.

 

I'll tell ya, I have no complaints whatsoever and I've pounded on these peddles through the past almost 20 years like nobody's business, let alone friends and family that have wanted to give the flight sim world a whirl and ended up literally picking up my 568 Combatstick USB off the table and thrashing it around like they were fighting with a wombat.

 

It is true too there are signs of things such as an impending stall without having FFB, so I suppose the market eventually saw that nobody was really seeing a big benefit to them versus the price they were asking.

Edited January 10, 2017 by BornToBattle

[Tomsk]

Wow. I always was under the assumption that forced feedback was a bit more cutting edge with being able to feel what is happening via the stick , etc. Hard to believe nobody makes one now. Why wasn't it more popular? Was it due to their price range or simply nobody gave a hoot?

 

I've heard the problem is patents, the area of force feedback stuff is heavily tied up in patents, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony . As sadly often happens with patents (and one of the reasons I'm not a fan of them) I believe that the company holding the patent decided to stop developing force feedback hardware, and instead just sue other companies wanting to do so  

[BOO]

I had a force feedback stick at one time, may have been the sidewinder. I personally never liked it, since I found the stick itself was not very accurate. I returned it after a few days.

 

Even without force feedback, it is easy to tell when you are getting close to a stall or the limits of your AC by the sound, visual and AC performance clue.

 

 

I own several sticks now and find the Sidewinder to be very precise.  

 

Agreed on the second point though  -but i still like the extra sensory input. :-)

[Lusekofte]

I wonder what happens if I instal this

 

on my stick

Edited January 10, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Sokol1]

Surely at least it will leave then completely unbalanced. 

[Lusekofte]

I think it will shake to pieces , but it had been interesting to see how powerful it is

[BornToBattle]

I've heard the problem is patents, the area of force feedback stuff is heavily tied up in patents, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony . As sadly often happens with patents (and one of the reasons I'm not a fan of them) I believe that the company holding the patent decided to stop developing force feedback hardware, and instead just sue other companies wanting to do so

 

Geez, that's crappy. Someone in the legal department must have thought they'd make more money doing just what you say. Stinks, as the end users (us) miss out on the whole thing.

[Sokol1]

Is not for nothing that MS close his FFB line in 2003, and now is Immersion investor.  

 

Byby FFB joysticks. 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Made my own force feedback a while ago but it was just a quick mock up and worked fine.

Logitech racing wheel mounted ontop of Saitek joystick (only gives feedback on Ailerons tho)

[DD_Crash]

I added a rumble pad shaker to my Warthog, not brilliant but I know when I am going to stall http://dangerdogz.com/forums/topic/12681-shaker-on-the-warthog/