=AVG=Zombie Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I was a fan of the clickable cockpit in CLod at first but slowly but surely I have assigned joystick buttons or keys for everything.
HansHansen Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Can't we all just agree that some people want clickable cockpits and some don't? Let's just leave it up to the developers, they seemed to have made quite a few good decisions so far... Considering that, by the time this feature will be ready in BoS, DCS WWII will be finished anyway, I for myself think BoS should not undergo such dramatic changes in gameplay for customers that, by then, will already have a simulator perfectly fit for their needs.
ST_ami7b5 Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) I quite like clicking on that arms selector in DCS:P-51 - bombs, rockets and so on... and that single/auto panel below for rockets In short - would be nice if not too much work for devs. Edited December 6, 2013 by ST_ami7b5 1
DD_bongodriver Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 stick is centremounted to my chair with a brick wall behind it.......no sliding, either way the wavy arm thing I don't see as very practical, the calibration required to track a virtual fingertip to touch a virtual switch will be a PITA.
SR-F_Winger Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) i am off on my way home now. Hope the download starts soon. Have fun trying the guns folks! Edited December 6, 2013 by VSG1_Winger
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 you, sir, are a troll. Hardly. The clickable cockpit arguments have gone around in circles over and over and over and over. Some people love the idea. Some people hate it. There is nothing new that could possibly come out of this thread. You just want to keep lobbying for something that I think is a complete waste of time, but now you want to do it while not having anyone with differing opinions involved. Sorry, but that isn't going to happen.
myfingid Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I'm surprised at the amount of resistance to a clickable cockpit, and that it would be called a "gimmick", and that the Oculus Rift would be used as an example as to why it is unnecessary (I'd think it would make it more necessary since you will not be able to see the keyboard). Honestly people need look no further than what Eagle Dynamics has done with the DCS series. I started up my BlackShark for the first time in months earlier this morning while waiting for IT to call back and I have to say actually trying (and succeeding in!) remember what systems need to be started and in what order was satisfying. I admit I can't get the Mustang started half the time, but that's part of the joy! Clickable cockpits are not a "gimmick", they are another level of immersion. Anyway a clickable cockpit would require a lot more engine modeling than is likely in game since rather than assuming that all the little subsystems are working together each one would have to be modeled along with their interactions. There is a reason DCS releases are so far between, and honestly Rise of Flight works great without a clickable cockpit (not that there would be much to click anyway). I'd file it under something that would be nice to have, but it would have to be done right otherwise there is no point. My guess is it would be a few months effort to get it in the game. After that each plane would have a couple of weeks time added to them to debug the engine interplay, and honestly that's just using the same system for each plane which we know won't work. It's likely more trouble than it's worth and could have a negative effect on what, if it's anything like Rise of Flight, is about to be the best WWII sim on the market.
Emgy Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Loft mentioned in one of the first dev diaries that a cockpit of CoD-level fidelity could take a year to make. (For a dev team of their size, I assume.) Edited December 6, 2013 by Calvamos
DD_bongodriver Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Hardly. The clickable cockpit arguments have gone around in circles over and over and over and over. Some people love the idea. Some people hate it. There is nothing new that could possibly come out of this thread. You just want to keep lobbying for something that I think is a complete waste of time, but now you want to do it while not having anyone with differing opinions involved. Sorry, but that isn't going to happen. OK, but how about we just leave it at you simply hate it? that seems to be the only contribution, no need to repeat it, don't see how it's implementation could ever cause you any inconvenience as it is highly unlikely to come at the expense of other methods.
JtD Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I'd prefer if the effort went into developing a decent FM instead of adding clickable cockpits to the FM we have.
Quax Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Can't we all just agree that some people want clickable cockpits and some don't? Let's just leave it up to the developers, they seemed to have made quite a few good decisions so far... Considering that, by the time this feature will be ready in BoS, DCS WWII will be finished anyway, I for myself think BoS should not undergo such dramatic changes in gameplay for customers that, by then, will already have a simulator perfectly fit for their needs. +1 PS: In a Black Shark or modern jet, where you have the autopilot on, you have a) enough systems to switch in the air and b) time to do it. A WW2 fighter doesn´t have an autopilot and there is nothing to switch when airborne. Waste of resources - that´s all. Edited December 6, 2013 by Quax
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I'm surprised at the amount of resistance to a clickable cockpit I'll summarize it for you. Many people think that it's a complete waste of development time and effort. If you want a switch to turn your cockpit lights on, buy a MFD panel from Thrustmaster. OK, but how about we just leave it at you simply hate it? that seems to be the only contribution, no need to repeat it, don't see how it's implementation could ever cause you any inconvenience as it is highly unlikely to come at the expense of other methods. Right, and you could just leave your contribution as "I love the idea", and that would be the end of the thread. I'm very much in favor of that. So is the poor horse. Here's how the thread is going to go: I love the idea. I hate the idea. Only work on it if they have time'. I want them to work on more important things. You suck. No, YOU suck. But I really want this. But I really don't want this. You suck. No, YOU suck. I really love this idea. I really, REALLY hate this idea. ... ... ... YOU ARE ALL BANNED!!!
Sternjaeger Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Hardly. The clickable cockpit arguments have gone around in circles over and over and over and over. Some people love the idea. Some people hate it. There is nothing new that could possibly come out of this thread. You just want to keep lobbying for something that I think is a complete waste of time, but now you want to do it while not having anyone with differing opinions involved. Sorry, but that isn't going to happen. it's not about the opinion, everybody is entitled to their own, it's about the condescending behaviour. Edited December 6, 2013 by Sternjaeger
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 it's not about the opinion, everybody is entitled to their own, it's about the condescending behaviour. Are you talking about your condescending behavior or that of the people who don't agree with you?
DD_bongodriver Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Exactly, and I will continue to validate why I love the idea with well thought out reasons. it's not about the opinion, everybody is entitled to their own, it's about the condescending behaviour.
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Exactly, and I will continue to validate why I love the idea with well thought out reasons. I'd love to know what well thought out reasons will change that fact that it would require a lot of development time that would be better spent on other things.
DD_bongodriver Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I'll summarize it for you. A few people think that it's a complete waste of development time and effort. If you want a switch to turn your cockpit lights on, it's much cheaper than buying a MFD panel from Thrustmaster. Right, and you could just leave your contribution as "I love the idea", because coming up with good explanations ruins my cynical point of view. I'm very much in favor of that. So is the poor non existant horse that is really a pointless metaphor. Here's how the thread is going to go: I love the idea. I hate the idea and you all suck for liking it. ... ... ... YOU ARE ALL BANNED!!! Fixed it for you. I'd love to know what well thought out reasons will change that fact that it would require a lot of development time that would be better spent on other things. I'd love to know why people who would like to see the feature at some point in the future when all the important development such as completing the game is so offensive to you.
Sternjaeger Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Are you talking about your condescending behavior or that of the people who don't agree with you? nope, we are referring to your sarcastic, patronising bashing of the concept, which is now very common in various simulators and brings an extra element of immersion to the sim. I'd love to know what well thought out reasons will change that fact that it would require a lot of development time that would be better spent on other things. See above. I think that, should they decide to go for it, a team like 777 would know how to do it, without taking time off other precious development.
Quax Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Nobody would use the clickable cockpits when airborne anyway. WW2 fighters don´t have autopilots and there is nothing to switch when inflight. If someone decides to fiddle with the mouse for 20 secs he will either have crashed or be shot down. Very well spend half a year of development time ! Same conclusion, then in most threads: devs know what they do - they did proof this in four years of ROF. if you want a sim, where you can click the mouse for 3 minutes to start the engine, i can suggest one (you have the time for it, cause there is no war and no enemies). And if you want a sim, where anything is included and nothing works, i have another suggestion. f.e.: one user says: the planes ground loops too easy - the next says: plane behaves too easy. What is the compromise ? Something silly for sure. Edited December 6, 2013 by Quax
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I'd love to know why people who would like to see the feature at some point in the future when all the important development such as completing the game is so offensive to you. Because it's a complete waste of development time. a team like 777 would know how to do it, without taking time off other precious development. It's not possible to do it without taking time off more important issues.
falstaff Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) As a side note...the problem with the 'time would be better spent on other things' line is that it can just about be applied to absolutely anything, any time, in any game/sim/anywhere. It is a classic catch-all. It is actually highly subjective, and therefore a matter of opinion. I'm guessing that the real-life pilot turn-out is quite high on this forum, but the turn-out of people with knowledge of coding methodologies and project implementation may not be so high. Ergo, when I want real flight knowledge, I talk to my brother. When he wants software and/or coding/project advice, he may ask me. Saying something is *easy* or *difficult and/or time-consuming* to code and implement (and test) is a generalisation, and without good working knowledge of the code at hand, hard to assert. BTW, Sternjaeger, calling people trolls if they simply disagree with you, or humouressly make a point you dont like, is not always the best way forward (mate). Edited December 6, 2013 by falstaff
Sternjaeger Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Nobody would use the clickable cockpits when airborne anyway. WW2 fighters don´t have autopilots and there is nothing to switch when inflight. If someone decides to fiddle with the mouse for 20 secs he will either have crashed or be shot down. Very well spend half a year of development time ! Same conclusion, then in most threads: devs know what they do - they did proof this in four years of ROF. f.e.: one user says: the planes ground loops too easy - the next says: plane behaves too easy. What is the compromise ? Something silly for sure. erm... fuel selector switch, weapon selector, radio frequency, manual boost, lights, ADF to mention a few... have you ever used Flight Simulator? A sim is not just about dogfights guys.. Edited December 6, 2013 by Sternjaeger
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 nope, we are referring to your sarcastic, patronising bashing of the concept, which is now very common in various simulators and brings an extra element of immersion to the sim. Nothing patronizing or sarcastic about pointing out that there are far more important things for the dev team to be working on. Going through all the steps to start the engine just isn't that important. In your opinion. And the opinion of the dev team.
DD_bongodriver Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 And the opinion of the dev team in your opinion.
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 erm... fuel selector switch, weapon selector, radio frequency, manual boost, lights, ADF to mention a few... have you ever used Flight Simulator? A sim is not just about dogfights guys.. HOTAS + Thrustmaster MFD
Sternjaeger Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 BTW, Sternjaeger, calling people trolls if they simply disagree with you, or humouressly make a point you dont like, is not always the best way forward (mate). well there's disagreeing, and there's trolling. I think our friend here gave us quite an exhaustive sample of his trolling. I think we can agree that someone who gives a reply along the lines of "because I think it's a waste of time and that's it" is either 12 or a troll. 1
DD_bongodriver Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Or really really frightened of click pits.
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 in your opinion. No, that's fact. Does the Lagg or 109 have a clickable cockpit? QED
Sternjaeger Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 HOTAS + Thrustmaster MFD well, regardless of personal preference, you can appreciate that not everybody can afford such a setup, don't you think? 1
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I think we can agree that someone who gives a reply along the lines of "because I think it's a waste of time and that's it" is either 12 or a troll. LOL And your entire argument is "I really want this". So we're both trolling?
Sim Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 It's nice to have, just like Ferrari is nice to have. But practical? To add clickable cockpits - you would need to model everything, the current CEM won't do. So you spend 1 year to develop one aircraft (DCS P-51D took even longer than that?). The BoS is released in.. what? 2016? Thanks, but no..
DD_bongodriver Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 No, that's fact. Does the Lagg or 109 have a clickable cockpit? QED If they had them do you think people would still be enquiring if we could have them?
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 well, regardless of personal preference, you can appreciate that not everybody can afford such a setup, don't you think? TM MFD is a probably cheaper than the extra money you'd be spending on new planes for the next 10 years. If they had them do you think people would still be enquiring if we could have them? What does that have to do with whether the dev teams thinks that clickable cockpits are worth their time?
Quax Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 erm... fuel selector switch, weapon selector, radio frequency, manual boost, lights, ADF to mention a few... have you ever used Flight Simulator? A sim is not just about dogfights guys.. No, i never used that ridiculous Flight Simulator. And flying starts making fun, when i take manual controls. I don´t have to switch anything anymore. If there is some frequency to change, the FO will do In a 109 there was nothing to switch at all. The bomb timer had two positions. Easy to do this without a mouse.
DD_bongodriver Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 What does that have to do with whether the dev teams thinks that clickable cockpits are worth their time? You aren't the dev team, what does you opinion have to do with what the dev teams oppinions are? No, i never used that ridiculous Flight Simulator. And flying starts making fun, when i take manual controls. I don´t have to switch anything anymore. If there is some frequency to change, the FO will do In a 109 there was nothing to switch at all. The bomb timer had two positions. Easy to do this without a mouse. Yes sorry, it's easy to forget that for some the world is complete with just a 109.
Sternjaeger Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) LOL And your entire argument is "I really want this". So we're both trolling? I didn't say "I really want this", I said it would add an extra element of immersion, because it would imply an advanced management of your aircraft, which is surely going to be used by DCS and it would be a defining benchmark between stuff like this sim and War Thunder for instance. Because flying a warbird is not just about dogfights, it's chiefly about management of an advanced propeller driven aircraft. No, i never used that ridiculous Flight Simulator. And flying starts making fun, when i take manual controls. I don´t have to switch anything anymore. If there is some frequency to change, the FO will do In a 109 there was nothing to switch at all. The bomb timer had two positions. Easy to do this without a mouse. you have War Thunder for that kind of fun mate. Flight Simulator is not ridiculous, it's good for learning procedures, something that you, as a real life pilot, should really appreciate actually.. but then again I guess we want different things from the same product.. Edited December 6, 2013 by Sternjaeger 1
BraveSirRobin Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 You aren't the dev team, what does you opinion have to do with what the dev teams oppinions are? Bongo, they released aircraft without clickable cockpits. That means they don't think it's important enough to put the effort into clickable cockpits.
ATAG_Slipstream Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 No, it means they don't have time to do it currently, doesn't mean it won't be done some time in the future, when you will no doubt tthen think it is a great idea.
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