FW 190 worth it?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'm not sure I ever saw that one gul durnit. To be fair, there are at least two better Fw drivers in my squad than I am. Thanks for the name drop though. I appreciate it

[Lusekofte]

 

 

But does someone pay you to talk positively about the Fw190? Do you have some benefit?

 

What are you? aeronautical engineer?  WT pilot where no obstacle shall be tolerated?  The FW 190 is a far better aircraft than any we have in Russian side when it comes to all other things than turn fights. It is really pathetic to see how helpless people can be. If it is historical correct , haven't the faintest idea, and neither do you

[Capt_Stubing]

The FW 190 is a great plane but in it's current form it has some issues as some have noted.  Is it worth it?  Well given the two main fighters for the Axis are the 109s and FW I would say yes.  We will see what it's like after the fix. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

It is not to hard, to intercept. Why? It has almost no possibility to escape in a nosedive, to gain separation.

 

Pretty self explanatory... even with draggy bombs on it the FW190s level flight speed is quite fast. It does lower your probability of intercept when you, as an attack plane, spend less time in enemy territory.

 

If a La-5 spots you and you're flying too low then yeah... you're screwed.

[Finkeren]

I'm not sure I ever saw that one gul durnit. To be fair, there are at least two better Fw drivers in my squad than I am. Thanks for the name drop though. I appreciate it

I saved the recording specifically because I remember you from the forums. It's rare enough to meet people online, who you've had conversations with on the forum.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

We've had our fair share of agreements and heated arguments over the last four years. I like that most here can see things in a fair to positive light and the banshee's are relatively few. Here's to seeing the Fw improve this spring and we can move on to something else. I suspect a banshee or two will continue to howl into the night though.

[StG2_Manfred]

I had a recording from last year of me getting my ass handed to me by HerrMurf. Unfortunately that no longer works. Will make sure to record the next time I meet a crack 190 pilot.

 

Note: I'm not saying the Fw 190 in this sim is outstanding and I'm definitely not saying, that its FM and performance is just right, I personally look forward to the changes.

 

What I'm saying is, that it's foolish to claim, that the 190 is completely useless as a fighter and that noone can do anything with it offensively, that's just plain false.

 

Personally I can't fly the Fw 190 worth a damn, in my hands it's just as pathetic as the P-40. But there are people who master it and can take on Yaks on even terms.

Well, then I guess this record was made before the last iteration.

 

What I'm saying is that it is foolish to say that one can fight offensive with it, it's not plain false, it's the truth. I fly almost exclusively German planes and I see barely people which choose this plane for dogfighting anymore.

 

And most ridiculous for me is, that people constantly explain here in the forums how this bird is to fly. And if there advice is questioned then the argue one wouldn't fly it to its strength.

 

If it is that simple then why nobody of you just sit into this bird, press the record button and shoot down a couple of LaGGs, Yaks and Las and upload this video? Show it capabilites and prove me wrong. But instead of providing this most simple evidence there is only palaver.

 

"It's the best plane in this sim but unfortunately I'm not a good fighter pilot. But my brother's friend knows a guy which can fly it very well"

Seriously? Honestly, I would feel ashamed if I would talk about things and give recommendations I cannot back up. Sorry for my frankness

[Lusekofte]

 

 

The FW 190 is a great plane but in it's current form it has some issues as some have noted.

 

 

I do not think anyone visited this site for more than a week is not convinced it has issues. I think we all agree on that. But the lame duck post here are totally out of order. 

I found rule # 1 to be , never loose speed, stick to high speed and no one can get to you. I find it oddly less willing to accelerate , and that is deadly with a Yak around. 

Its fire power and ability as a weapon platform is very close to IL 2 when it comes to ground pounding. And for bouncing unknowing enemies I can imagine it is quite capable and deadly

[Guest deleted@30725]

I like mastering what it is rather than complaining what it's not. With the right tactics and pilot this thing is deadly.

[L3Pl4K]

 

 

Pretty self explanatory... even with draggy bombs on it the FW190s level flight speed is quite fast. It does lower your probability of intercept when you, as an attack plane, spend less time in enemy territory.

Most people will use this plane as fighter and not as Jabo.

A great strengh of the (real)190 is its dive performance. But for now, this do not work as it should.
 

[Danziger]

I like mastering what it is rather than complaining what it's not. With the right tactics and pilot this thing is deadly.

Exactly. I'm sure when it does get fixed, the same names will be crying about how it wasn't. If you can't handle it the way it is now then you'll still suck when it gets fixed. The people who actually use it now will be that much more effective when the fix comes but I think the majority of loudest complainers will not be satisfied.

[StG2_Manfred]

....

The people who actually use it now will be that much more effective when the fix comes....

Who are those people? You? Or do you also know them only from hearsay? Can you ask them to provide a video?

 

The OP was asking if the 190 is worth the money. I said yes if he wants to fly it as a fighter bomber, no as a pure fighter.

 

You could help this guy with his decision and provide a video where you show its fighter qualities. But I'm sure nothing will come, only smart palaver as I said.

Edited January 5, 2017 by StG2_Manfred

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

There are lots of valid complaints about the Fw. Dive characteristics are not one of them. The 190 dives better and handles at high speed better than anything in game. This is indisputable.

[ITAF_Cymao]

What are you? aeronautical engineer

No, I'm not. I'm a simple player.

But didnt need to be engineer to understand that it was wrong, maybe it was sufficient fly it in the last year.

If they have to fix means that now it is  wrong.

And I think that is correct to suggest to wait for the fix before to buy something that is currently wrong.

 

 

 

WT pilot where no obstacle shall be tolerated?

 

WT = War thunder? If yes, I've never flown WT. I flew in IL2 1946 since 2004 with some success...

 

 

 

It is really pathetic to see how helpless people can be. If it is historical correct , haven't the faintest idea, and neither do you

 

Who is pathetic? One who criticizes but continues to fly with this aircraft with good stats, or who dont fly Fw, but wants to teach us how to fly the Focke or how to shoot AI in single player?

How long did you have  flown on FW190 last year and where?

 

 

S! and sorry for my fluent English

Edited January 5, 2017 by ITAF_Cymao

[Gambit21]

I haven't flow the 190 online yet - but I've messed around with it enough offline to know that in it's current state I'd fly it online more I less like I used to

in the old IL2.

 

Get high, stay fast, choose an unwary victim, dive, burst, extent, climb - repeat.

I don't imagine that tactic will change drastically after the update...it will just do the above job even better.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Gambit21

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It'll be better in a scissors than it is now, more than likely. It will be quite a bit better in climb performance. It will turn better and be marginally better in a dogfight. It still won't be a nimble knife fighter. If you want to slit an opponents throat take the 109. She's a scalpel. If you want to gut your opponent take a 190. She's a battle axe.

 

Just to stay on topic - I'd still buy it an hour later.

Edited January 5, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Riderocket]

Fw190 A 3 was better fighter than Spifire MKV a,b and Bf109 F4 , G2-4 and G6 .

 

The instructions were to avoid dogfight with Yaks but could bomb objectives and with advantage speed escape .

 

you mean was a better "fighter bomber"

[Danziger]

Who are those people? You? Or do you also know them only from hearsay? Can you ask them to provide a video?

 

The OP was asking if the 190 is worth the money. I said yes if he wants to fly it as a fighter bomber, no as a pure fighter.

 

You could help this guy with his decision and provide a video where you show its fighter qualities. But I'm sure nothing will come, only smart palaver as I said.

I guess you are assuming my comments are aimed at you? If the shoe fits...

 

I never made any distinction of using it as a fighter or bomber. I meant using it at all period. Like any other plane it can be used to it's advantages despite it's weaknesses. I'm not someone who refuses fly just because of a bug. Is the 190 FM incorrect? Yes it's been proven. That doesn't mean it is unflyable or completely useless as some whiners would have everyone believe.

 

If you want videos go sign up with Mr. X. I have better things to do than learn how to make videos just to give flying lessons.

 

Edit: Well I have been wanting to learn how to make videos for ages so if it isn't too much of a pain to learn, I will make one when I finish the 4k MiG-3 template.

Edited January 5, 2017 by BorysVorobyov

[ShamrockOneFive]

Most people will use this plane as fighter and not as Jabo.

A great strengh of the (real)190 is its dive performance. But for now, this do not work as it should.

 

 

But that wasn't what I was talking about... 

I haven't flow the 190 online yet - but I've messed around with it enough offline to know that in it's current state I'd fly it online more I less like I used to

in the old IL2.

 

Get high, stay fast, choose an unwary victim, dive, burst, extent, climb - repeat.

I don't imagine that tactic will change drastically after the update...it will just do the above job even better.

 

That's pretty much it. With the revised FM it'll be a bit easier to handle but it isn't going to suddenly be a turn fighter... It'll just be more forgiving at the kinds of tactics that it will still do fairly well right now. I encourage people to give it a try but to also completely forget typical "dogfighting" techniques and use slashing attacks.

[konate]

It'll be better in a scissors than it is now, more than likely. It will be quite a bit better in climb performance. 

 

I believe Developer Diary #140 states the climb rate will remain the same.

 

The main performance characteristics - speed and climb rate - should remain the same.

[LukeFF]

 

 

But does someone pay you to talk positively about the Fw190? Do you have some benefit?

 

That's about as weak of a troll attempt I've seen recently. 

[Wulf]

I have never liked it in Il2 (Original) was twitchy , and easy to stall.

Same in Warbirds and EAW.

 

I have seen all the complaints here too,but good thing is that it will be fixed.

 

Is it worth buying it?

 

 

I'd suggest you wait until the revised version is released.  Once that has happened, and the adjusted FM has been reviewed by people who actually know something about the aircraft (and Manfred would be one of those people) you'll be in a much better position to determine if it's worth the investment.  Only time will tell.    

[GridiroN]

Must've been my imagination all those times I was completely outflown by Fw 190 pilots when I was flying Yak and started with the advantage.

 

Yak 1 or Yak 1B? I can outfly a Yak in a FW190. A FW190 vs a Yak 1B is an easy kill for the 1B even with a sub-average pilot. Can't outrun it. Can't outdive it. Can't outclimb it. Can't outturn it. It would take a significant energy advantage, and the element of surprise and very bad energy usage from the Yak 1B to lose to a FW190. 

 

If you like to use it as a fighter bomber then it is worth it. But if you want to use it as a fighter then it's not worth it, at least at the moment. Because all techniques described do not work, it's completely impossible to offensive fight with it now. That's why I asked for video evidence. And be aware, even when you dive with 850 km/h the Yak-1b will follow you....

 

But as mentioned, an overhaul will come and hopefully we get the plane it was famous for.

 

I wouldn't say that. A good pilot in a 190 is still a significant threat to pretty much anything other than a Yak 1B. Ill agree though that the 1B has taken over the F4's position as the current uberplane. 

 

It is not to hard, to intercept. Why? It has almost no possibility to escape in a nosedive, to gain separation.

 

The 190 outdives everything except the 1B by a significant margin... your comment doesn't make any sense to me.

 

But does someone pay you to talk positively about the Fw190? Do you have some benefit?

Now Fw 190 is the worst airplane of the IL2 series, and honestly I dont suggest anyone to buy it...

I would suggest to wait for the promised fix!

 

S!

 

The Fw190 is worth money if you enjoy the plane and are willing to accept that it's not a plane you're going to lining up frags with. I'd buy the 190 over the P40, and MC202 easily. 

[Willy__]

Speaking as a person who flown the 190 since it was released in the alpha, I can say the 190 is a very tricky plane to fly, especially to those expecting an uber plane.

 

I've seen more than one iterations of the FM, and the current one is one of the worst, maybe just better than the alpha FM. It still get the job done, but if you have to do anything more than dive and extend to escape a pursuer, you're essentially screwed. With older FM you could scissor fight, but I wouldnd recommend doing that until they fix it when the Kuban 190A5 gets released.

 

Some tips to those just starting with the plane, from taxi to landing:

 

1. Pull back on the stick to taxi, use brakes for slight/gentle turns; if you need to do 90 degree turns, slow down, release the stick and then turn, after that pull back on the stick again to lock the tailwheel.

 

2. To take off align with the runaway, drop down combat/take off flaps and pull back on the sitck and throttle up, once you reach 150km/h release the stick and the tail wheel should come up by itself. After you reach 200-220km/h you should be able to lift off, retract gear and flaps.

 

3. It is VERY IMPORTANT that you climb away from the combat areas, without altitude you are screwed. MP wise you should aim for anywhere from 3500m to 5000m.

 

4. At altitude you should look for unsuspecting people, you dive on them, shoot and extend, better if you can extend in direction of your base. If you see you are not being followed, you can climb back up, if you're being followed, you should be able to lose anyone with the speed you got in the dive.

 

5. If someone gets in your six while at altitude, dive towards your base. Stop diving when you see that the enemy stopped getting closer and level the nose with the horizon, if the enemy start to get closer, dive again. 

 

6. To land: gears and full flaps when you reach <300km/h. Final on 220km/h and aim to hit the edge of the runaway at 200km/h. Flare around at 180km/h, if you do it correctly you should three point it. After touchdown keep the stick pulled back to lock the tail wheel, use brakes.

 

Now some after thoughts:

 

I. The 190 against a good pilot wont work. They will see you from the distance and just turn into you or split-s. If you see that happen just abort the dive and go back up. Only commit to a fight if you are sure you are alone in a 1v1 against the enemy, and even then, you should be extra careful with your energy, the 190 doenst have the capability of climbing back up like the 109 has.

 

II. Avoid scissor fight until they fix the FM.

 

III. Bringing a wingman makes everything easier, this is true for all planes, but it makes a world of difference for the 190 since its the fastest plane in the game.

 

IV. If your speed drop below 300km/h you are doing it wrong.

 

V. If you got a six and no alt to dive you are essentialy dead.

 

VI. Its an awesome fighter-bomber. It can carry a 500kg bomb even though most mp servers lock it 

 

VII. It eats the russian b17 also known as "Pe2" for lunch with the 4 cannons.

 

Conclusion: its worth the money, just buy it already 

Edited January 5, 2017 by JAGER_Staiger

[tailwheel]

I'm glad I have the 190 in my hanger. Bloody awful as a furball turn and burn , but it busts up bombers like nothing and is a hoot for ground attacks. Takeoff and landing is much easier than the Mig-3, esp when you remember how to lock the 190's tailwheel. I swear if the VVS had me as a mig pilot, I'd soon be in the infantry. But it handles better in the air in a tight turn than the 190. I'm glad the FM will be corrected and like both planes. I don't regret buying it. Caveot: if you buy it before it's re-tweaked, learn it's limits and fly within, otherwise you will hate the experience.

[konate]

Sorry for the noob question, but what is "flaring" in reference to landing?

[Willy__]

 

 

Sorry for the noob question, but what is "flaring" in reference to landing?

 

You put the nose up and let the plane stall in a way that all 3 wheels touch the ground at the same time 

[RAY-EU]

As a fighter the Fw190 historically in WW2 was compared in combat fights combats with the P51D mustang and the Spitfire Mk IX with history roll combats experiences conclusions of every plane descrived in history from documents of WW2 .

In DCS I or you can do dogfight close combat with the Fw190 D9 vs P51 Mustang or Spitfire MkIX and can win the P51 mustang .

Probably the most formidable fighter of WW2 is the first jet Me 262 a2 and was a fighter bomber .

Edited January 5, 2017 by RAY-EU

[Lusekofte]

Here is a interesting interview on a FW 190 pilot talking about FW anton and Dora . 

 

 

landing the Anton was like dropping a piano from 5 to 7 floor it fell straight down , did not flip to one side

 

[Finkeren]

As a fighter the Fw190 historically in WW2 was compared in combat fights combats with the P51D mustang and the Spitfire Mk IX with history roll combats experiences conclusions of every plane descrived in history from documents of WW2 .

In DCS I or you can do dogfight close combat with the Fw190 D9 vs P51 Mustang or Spitfire MkIX and can win the P51 mustang .

Probably the best fighter of WW2 is the first jet Me 262 b2 and was a fighter bomber .

This talk of "the best" fighter of WW2 and one fighter being generally "better" than another is utter rubbish. There is no "best fighter of WW2", it all depends on context.

 

And you comparing the matchup of Fw 190D vs. P-51D against what we have in this sim is meaningsless. You are comparing appels and French exsistentialist philosophy.

 

And historic combat accounts are at best a weak indicator of an aircrafts performance, not definitive proof of it. To counter your argument, I could point to the fact that Soviet pilots were not impressed by the Fw 190 and viewed it as only good for bounces and head-on attacks to show that the Fw 190 we have in the sim is actually correct, but that would be complete rubbish as well.

 

The performance of the Fw 190 was what it was. We have pretty good data for that plane, and the devs should work to make the model in the game fit real life data as close as possible (so far they have not succeeded spectacularly with the 190) - not fit with anecdotal accounts.

[ZachariasX]

Every aircraft in this sim is worth buying. So is the Fw190.

 

If you are asking if you buying the Fw190 will have better stats on WoL and the likes, then the answer is no. But there's more to playing there than just the selection of your ride.

 

Besides, you buying this aircraft will help you being able to buy the next great aircraft.

[RAY-EU]

I am telling the Me 262 A2 is the most formidable Fighter of WW2 .

[Finkeren]

I am telling the Me 262 A2 is the most formidable Fighter of WW2 .

And I'm telling you it's rubbish.

 

You could make an argument, that it was the best high-altitude interceptor. That would probably be correct in some sense.

 

But a sweeping statement like "the best fighter of WW2" is meaningless, no matter which plane you pick for that title. No machine exists that perform better than all others in any situation, it doesn't happen.

[StG2_Manfred]

I like mastering what it is rather than complaining what it's not. With the right tactics and pilot this thing is deadly.

 

Well BfBunny, there is nothing to say against it. 

 

I was not complaining what it's not (patch is already in the pipeline), but what people claim it would be, but not able to prove it. That's a huge difference.

 

 

There are lots of valid complaints about the Fw. Dive characteristics are not one of them. The 190 dives better and handles at high speed better than anything in game. This is indisputable.

 

I also agree with your statement HerrMurf. Additionally I add that it is a very stable gun platform with great fire power.

 

 

It'll be better in a scissors than it is now, more than likely. It will be quite a bit better in climb performance. It will turn better and be marginally better in a dogfight. It still won't be a nimble knife fighter. If you want to slit an opponents throat take the 109. She's a scalpel. If you want to gut your opponent take a 190. She's a battle axe.

 

Just to stay on topic - I'd still buy it an hour later.

 

If it will be like you describe here I guess most people will be happy or say at least satisfied.

 

 

I guess you are assuming my comments are aimed at you? If the shoe fits...

 

I never made any distinction of using it as a fighter or bomber. I meant using it at all period. Like any other plane it can be used to it's advantages despite it's weaknesses. I'm not someone who refuses fly just because of a bug. Is the 190 FM incorrect? Yes it's been proven. That doesn't mean it is unflyable or completely useless as some whiners would have everyone believe.

 

If you want videos go sign up with Mr. X. I have better things to do than learn how to make videos just to give flying lessons.

 

Edit: Well I have been wanting to learn how to make videos for ages so if it isn't too much of a pain to learn, I will make one when I finish the 4k MiG-3 template.

 

Dunno if the shoe fits to me. Actually I don't care, I stand by my opinion. But your generalizing and stigmatizing (the whiners will always complain) is what sucks to me. The truth is imo the other way around. A couple of people continuosly try deny the obvious, even when it is proved to be wrong and furthermore disregard people which just address the subject. And the 190 FM is only one of those subjects. One could think they just fear to loose their pros, because it appears to me that they mostly fly planes of the opposite party (keyword redwhiners)

 

Your referring to Mr.X is misleading, because even this great pilot do not fly the 190 anymore, according to his youtube channel. His 190 videos are pretty old meanwhile and were not flown with the current FM.

 

So I repeat what I was saying, I don't believe people can fight offensive with this plane at the moment. That means to continuosly shoot down enemy planes, like in a 109 or in a Yak. Maybe every now and then a lucky punch is possible but then this happens only by chance. 

 

If you want to proof me wrong there is also no video editiing necessary. You can upload your track file directly. Everbody then can run it on their own computer and watch your sortie.

[ZachariasX]

I am telling the Me 262 A2 is the most formidable Fighter of WW2 .

Yes, it is just what you want to shoot Po-2 at night and at tree top height. Once they model engine reliability correctly, then you can enjoy numerous missions just sitting in the cockpit on the tramac. Or set yourself on fire by starting an engine.

[L3Pl4K]

 

 

The 190 outdives everything except the 1B by a significant margin... your comment doesn't make any sense to me.

 

 

There are lots of valid complaints about the Fw. Dive characteristics are not one of them. The 190 dives better and handles at high speed better than anything in game. This is indisputable.

It make sense. A Exampel. 190 and 109, same alt and speed. Both go in a dive, with Kampfleistung. Who must win the race and get some separtation? The 190 right!
But does this work at the moment?
Please, go with a comrade on Berloga for example. You with 190 and the other with 109F4. Go on 3 or 4k, and dive(with Kampfleistung) with a moderate dive angle(20-30°).You will be surprised.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

It make sense. A Exampel. 190 and 109, same alt and speed. Both go in a dive, with Kampfleistung. Who must win the race and get some separtation? The 190 right!

But does this work at the moment?

Please, go with a comrade on Berloga for example. You with 190 and the other with 109F4. Go on 3 or 4k, and dive(with Kampfleistung) with a moderate dive angle(20-30°).You will be surprised.

I hate to admit it, but the 190 ingame really doesn't have much of an edge in High Speed Dives. At 700kph a Yak will keep up with a 190 at 1.3ata. 

[I./ZG1_Radick]

The biggest advantage of the Fw 190 was the diving acceleration, but a 109 can catch a 190 (dive), this is bullshit.

[Wulf]

I hate to admit it, but the 190 ingame really doesn't have much of an edge in High Speed Dives. At 700kph a Yak will keep up with a 190 at 1.3ata. 

 

 

Woooooh, hey stead-on WTF!!!  It's like I'm falling backwards into some crazy alternate universe where everything is all arse about face.  

 

Klaus, WTF bro??  What about your standard "crap-arse Jerry plane" argument??  What the hell be goin on dog??

[Willy__]

Thats the thing, you can only win against the VVS in a diving contest because the 190 have a higher Vne than the russian planes. If you dont have the altitude to reach a higher speed than the Vne of the red planes, you simply wont outdive them.