Announcing Project VPC MongoosT-50

[Seb71]

2 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Kuppis said:

Anyone else has similar problem:

The T-50 Base loses its pitch (y-axis) calibration constantly. No matter how often I calibrate stick using virpil software, after a few moves the pitch calibration is usually somewhere between 51-68 %, or sometimes 49-41 % (50 % is the middle). The calibration changes constantly during the flight along the pitch axis. At the moment stick is quite unflyable, as stable flying and shooting accurately is very difficult (well, more than it is usually for me :))

I opened a ticket in Virpil Support Center a few days ago, but haven´t got any answer.

One possible cause is a loose magnet.

[LLv24_Kuppis]

39 minutes ago, Seb71 said:

One possible cause is a loose magnet.

Thanks for the answer, do you know if it is possible to fix by my self?

[Seb71]

Some users did.

[TWC_Ace]

Is it possible Virpil will make some kind of "advanced" version of Baur pedals (ofcourse under Virpil brand)?

Edited November 9, 2018 by blackram

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

On 11/9/2018 at 4:41 AM, 6./ZG26_Kuppis said:

Anyone else has similar problem:

The T-50 Base loses its pitch (y-axis) calibration constantly. No matter how often I calibrate stick using virpil software, after a few moves the pitch calibration is usually somewhere between 51-68 %, or sometimes 49-41 % (50 % is the middle). The calibration changes constantly during the flight along the pitch axis. At the moment stick is quite unflyable, as stable flying and shooting accurately is very difficult (well, more than it is usually for me :))

I opened a ticket in Virpil Support Center a few days ago, but haven´t got any answer.

 

I have had issues losing center on the Roll calibration.  Had to re-calibrate it 3 to 4 times.  The last one seems to be holding for several days now. 

[Seb71]

On 11/9/2018 at 2:40 PM, Seb71 said:

One possible cause is a loose magnet.

It appears that it could be a design problem with the MongoosT-50 gimbal. It's not the magnet the one which gets loose, as wrongly reported by some users. The pivot itself rotates inside the grip stem (and that should never happen).

[Alonzo]

On 11/9/2018 at 7:31 AM, blackram said:

Is it possible Virpil will make some kind of "advanced" version of Baur pedals (ofcourse under Virpil brand)?

 

I think it's absolutely certain that Virpil will release pedals, designed by Baur (since he's their chief designer). He already had more demand than he knew what to do with, and looking at how fast the Virpil throttle unit keeps selling out, I think they have enough loyal customers saying "shut up and take our money" that they'd be silly not to release pedals.

 

Also I think it's been teased in photos and Baur has confirmed Virpil will be doing pedals. I don't think we know when or the price point yet.

[LLv24_Kuppis]

On 11/11/2018 at 9:49 PM, Seb71 said:

It appears that it could be a design problem with the MongoosT-50 gimbal. It's not the magnet the one which gets loose, as wrongly reported by some users. The pivot itself rotates inside the grip stem (and that should never happen).

 

Hm, interesting. I Got answer from Virpil Support saying the loose magnet is actually the reason, and I tighten it would help.

[Seb71]

The bolt gets loose. Not the magnet.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

On 11/14/2018 at 3:24 AM, Seb71 said:

The bolt gets loose. Not the magnet.

 

You may have answered my post in the Virpil forums as well about a loose bolt.  Question is, which one?

 

EDIT:  I found the diagram of the T-50 base on page 5 of the Quick Start Guide v1.5 displaying the various parts.  Still not sure which "bolt" may be the problem.  10?

 

Quick Start Guide v1.5 download link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pqrnmzph9ejzg96/VPC-MongoosT-50-BASE-Quick-Start---ENG.pdf?dl=0

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Seb71]

When you open the base, you can see 3 PCBs (electronic boards).

 

The bigger PCB is mounted on the back side of the case (on the inside) and it has the USB cable attached to it (and other cables). That's the controller board.

 

Then you can see 2 smaller boards, mounted on the gimbal itself. One on the rear side and one on the left side. Each sits on two standoffs (similar with standoffs used in PC cases for the motherboard) and is secured by 2 small screws. Those are the sensors boards for X and Y axes (X is the one on the rear). Under each of those 2 small sensor boards there is a bolt which has a small magnet on that end. You can see them in the picture you posted (which has the sensor boards removed). Just under the top plate, into those small ball bearings. The brass (yellowish colour) standoffs are also visible (right and left to each of those bolts/pivots with magnets).

 

The issue is that some of those bolts rotate in rapport with the cams. They are only secured against rotation by friction. I would have liked to see another method to prevent that rotation (such as a pin, key, etc.).

 

7 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

EDIT:  I found the diagram of the T-50 base on page 5 of the Quick Start Guide v1.5 displaying the various parts.  Still not sure which "bolt" may be the problem.  10?

 

Quick Start Guide v1.5 download link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pqrnmzph9ejzg96/VPC-MongoosT-50-BASE-Quick-Start---ENG.pdf?dl=0

 

Page 5, Figure 2. Number 12 (for Y axis) - the magnet is on the other end of that bolt/pivot, under the sensor board.

 

For X axis the bolt is not visible in that image. But it is visible on the image you first posted. Right under the Virpil star logo.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Seb71

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

So the rear bolt is the X (roll) axis.  If this is the culprit by being loose, the question now would be, how tight is tight? 

 

BTW, thanks for leading me through this.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Seb71]

Take off the sensor board. Deflect the X grip stem left/right and observe the bolt with the magnet. That bolt and the X axis cam should always rotate "as one".

 

Tighten the bolt with the magnet by feel. Be careful.

 

With the X axis spring removed, check how the grip stem deflects left/right. It should be smooth, with no binding.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

7 minutes ago, Seb71 said:

 

Tighten the bolt with the magnet by feel. Be careful.

 

 

Don't mean to parse words but just don't want to screw the pooch.  By "feel" are we talking finger tighten only or with very tiny adjustments by wrench after?

[Seb71]

Depending on the bolt situation you find. If the bolt is very loose and rotates easily (not with the cam), then tighten it until it makes contact (until you feel an increased resistence) then tighten another 45 degrees or so (1/8 of a turn) with a wrench. See how it feels when you tighten it. If you feel it becomes hard to tighten it more, stop.

 

You will have to calibrate again after this. Make sure you follow the proper calibration procedure.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Seb71

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

That helps.  Again, thanks for all the info. 

[LLv24_Kuppis]

On 11/19/2018 at 12:08 PM, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

That helps.  Again, thanks for all the info. 

 

Did you manage to fix it yourself?

 

I decided to play it safe and send the base to their support center last week, as warranty covers it. I was too afraid I break something if I open the base myself - I haven´t opened it at all yet. Downside is that I´m without a stick for the time being

[Seb71]

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Kuppis said:

I decided to play it safe and send the base to their support center last week, as warranty covers it. I was too afraid I break something if I open the base myself - I haven´t opened it at all yet.

 

Since you sent them the base, ask them to also remove the screws from both cams for you and then to put back the cam screws without using Loctite threadlocker on those 4 screws. If you later decide to try other cams, this would greatly help.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

4 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Kuppis said:

 

Did you manage to fix it yourself?

 

I decided to play it safe and send the base to their support center last week, as warranty covers it. I was too afraid I break something if I open the base myself - I haven´t opened it at all yet. Downside is that I´m without a stick for the time being

 

I asked them about doing it myself, along with the approach I would use as I didn't want to void the warranty, and they said it was OK and provided a step by step PDF.  It really doesn't look terribly complicated.  Disassembly and reassembly are similar to the first part of the process used for the cams.  Plan on doing it very soon, just need to pick up a couple things.

Edited December 11, 2018 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Alonzo]

I've opened up two different T-50 bases. It's fairly simple to make adjustments but it is fiddly (you have to unclip a small circuit board and it's a bit of a pain to get back onto its bolts). I had the "stuck cam screws" problem and ended up sending in the unit for them to replace the screws because I had stripped them trying to change them. I knew about the problem ahead of time and was super careful, but those bastard screws didn't want to come out at all. It's unfortunate that this one problem -- soft screw heads plus locking glue -- has caused problems on what is otherwise a fantastic piece of engineering.

[LLv24_Kuppis]

19 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

 

I asked them about doing it myself, along with the approach I would use as I didn't want to void the warranty, and they said it was OK and provided a step by step PDF.  It really doesn't look terribly complicated.  Disassembly and reassembly are similar to the first part of the process used for the cams.  Plan on doing it very soon, just need to pick up a couple things.

Yes I asked, too, and they were helpful, but I don´t remember receiving any pdf´s or anything, though.

 

 

17 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I've opened up two different T-50 bases. It's fairly simple to make adjustments but it is fiddly (you have to unclip a small circuit board and it's a bit of a pain to get back onto its bolts). I had the "stuck cam screws" problem and ended up sending in the unit for them to replace the screws because I had stripped them trying to change them. I knew about the problem ahead of time and was super careful, but those bastard screws didn't want to come out at all. It's unfortunate that this one problem -- soft screw heads plus locking glue -- has caused problems on what is otherwise a fantastic piece of engineering.

 

With this in mind, I wrote them if they could help me with the cam bolts as Seb71 suggested. Hopefully they receive the message - they got the base delivered yesterday.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I did the maintenance today.  What I found odd was the X Axis bolt head and surrounding area were covered in a lubricant, that had dripped down the case and onto the inside of the base.  The Y Axis bolt had had nothing on it.  I would think lube is the last thing you would want around a bolt needed to hold a magnet.  (EDIT:  I tested tightening the bolt and it was loose.)  I removed the bolt, cleaned it as the shaft and threads were also covered in lube, and reseated it.  The base was recognized OK and did calibrated properly.  Will have to wait to see how things go.

Edited December 12, 2018 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Seb71]

That's strange. Could that lubricant come from the ball bearing?

 

The presence of the lubricant could partly explain why the bolt got loose.

 

Which grip are you using? I've read some reports of lubricant leaking from Delta grip (probably from the twist mechanism).

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Using the MongoosT-50.  Hmm... the round unit just under the bolt head I assumed was the magnet but bearings make more sense.  If that is a bearing unit, where is the magnet itself?

[Seb71]

On the bolt head.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Ah-ha.  So if one bearing was dry and the other had lube, it is logical to assume the one with lube leaked as lube should not be present.  Wonder what the prognosis is for the leaker.  Should it be replaced?

[Seb71]

The lubricant should be present in those metal shields protected ball bearings. But normally it should not leak. It's a viscous type lubricant, not a liquid one in those ball bearings.

 

The leaked lubricant might not come from the ball bearing, though. That's why I asked if the leaked lubricant appeared to have come from the bearing or not.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Not positive where it came from but it was only present under the small IC board, on and around the bolt and the bearing housing.  Obvious "dripping" was also present down the inside of the base.

[Seb71]

Could also be from the assembly of the base.

 

For instance, the other cams I got with my base were oiled (probably for anti-corrosion protection).

[LLv24_Kuppis]

Finally got my base back from maintenance after 1,5 months. According to support, the entire gimbal assembly was replaced. Only critique would be the long time it took sending it back to me, but now that he stick works like charm, I really can´t complain ?  

 

Damn, it was good to be back flying, although my already mediocre SA and aiming have deteriorated during the break. Guess there´s only one way to get them back

 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

5 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Kuppis said:

Finally got my base back from maintenance after 1,5 months. ?

 

Glad to hear you're back in business.  Do you know out of the 1.5 months how long it was actually in their hands vs in transit?

[LLv24_Kuppis]

17 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

 

Do you know out of the 1.5 months how long it was actually in their hands vs in transit?

According to them, repairing itself should´ve taken no more than a week. Mine was there from about mid December until 2/1/19 when they announced it was fixed, but considering it was a long holiday season in between, longer time was expected and it was ok for me.

 

After all I´m quite happy how this turned out and most propably will be bying the Virpil throttle in the near future, too.

 

[-332FG-Gordon200]

Virpil VPC T-50 Mongoos throttles are available. New batch released today 300 Euro ($428 including shipping to US).

 

https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-mongoost-50-throttle.html