Announcing Project VPC MongoosT-50

[Sokol1]

8 hours ago, dburne said:

Virpil is discontinuing the Mongoos T-50 base.

 

Although probable mechanically more advanced, T-50 base result too "complicate" for "Average Joe Simmer" -  as showed by all "CAM exchange dramas" in forums.

 

In Il-2.ru they say that WarBRD is OK for use with 50mm extension in their deskmount - initially was forbide, what fit for most of  player base.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Sokol1

[dburne]

51 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

 

Although probable mechanically more advanced, T-50 base result too "complicate" for "Average Joe Simmer" -  as showed by all "CAM exchange dramas" in forums.

 

In Il-2.ru they say that WarBRD is OK for use with 50mm extension in their deskmount - initially was forbide, what fit for most of  player base.

 

 

 

To your first point on the T-50 - not hardly. Those cam screws used and the way they were installed created a nightmare for many trying to get them out. Pretty well documented by several users ( as shown by many). If not for how they were installed with those screws used and the thread locker, changing cams would have been quite easy. Very soft metal with Philips heads that stripped out way to easily.

Stick discontinued now so guess it no longer matters.

 

WarBRD - Interesting that they now say using extension is ok...  I am sure has nothing to do with the T50 being discontinued...

And even at that, a 50mm extension is not very much of an extension. Guess every little bit would help, but I much prefer the longer ones myself.

Edited October 1, 2018 by dburne

[kalbuth]

I'm locked to the default cam because of this

[335th_GRMultiDoc]

Thanks dburne! I was waiting to order one for a while now and your post was invaluable, otherwise I would have missed it.

 

I'm not sure I understand why they discontinue the MT-50 though, plenty of customers and a solid stick and base.

[dburne]

6 minutes ago, 335th_GRMultiDoc said:

Thanks dburne! I was waiting to order one for a while now and your post was invaluable, otherwise I would have missed it.

 

I'm not sure I understand why they discontinue the MT-50 though, plenty of customers and a solid stick and base.

 

You are most welcome.

I am not sure either, seems like a strange decision to me without at least having a comparable replacement for center stick mounting like many of us do. Like a second version of T-50.  I feel kind of like I have a red haired stepchild now sitting here with me in my T-50 setup, knowing this product is no longer made.

With the exception of the cam design ( namely way it was fastened), they did a superb job on the T-50 stick. I have gobs of hours in with that stick.

 

I guess for whatever reason they decided to go with Baur and his design on the WarBRD for their stick offering now.  Perhaps they will continue to build on that style of stick going forward, time will tell.

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by dburne

[335th_GRMultiDoc]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

You are most welcome.

I am not sure either, seems like a strange decision to me without at least having a comparable replacement for center stick mounting like many of us do. Like a second version of T-50.  I feel kind of like I have a red haired stepchild now sitting here with me in my T-50 setup, knowing this product is no longer made.

With the exception of the cam design ( namely way it was fastened), they did a superb job on the T-50 stick. I have gobs of hours in with that stick.

 

I guess for whatever reason they decided to go with Baur and his design on the WarBRD for their stick offering now.  Perhaps they will continue to build on that style of stick going forward, time will tell.

 

+1

 

Exactly my thoughts, I was at least able to finalize my setup now (had an MT-50 stick and base for a while and need the second one for the Delta grip).

 

What would really make a huuuge difference in the (near I hope) future is for Virpil to develop and expand their software. It's a complete pain to assign keys via the game.

[Sokol1]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

To your first point on the T-50 - not hardly.

 

Source "....many users were not ready for such technically difficult product as VPC MongoosT-50 Base and faced difficulties in its adjustment and maintenance."

 https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/5326-обсуждение-проекта-virpil-controls/?do=findComment&comment=641100

 

WarBRD - Interesting that they now say using extension is ok

 

Talk about there: https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/5326-обсуждение-проекта-virpil-controls/?do=findComment&comment=641126

[dburne]

32 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

 

Source "....many users were not ready for such technically difficult product as VPC MongoosT-50 Base and faced difficulties in its adjustment and maintenance."

 https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/5326-обсуждение-проекта-virpil-controls/?do=findComment&comment=641100

 

 

That is a little rich them saying that "many users were not ready for such technically difficult product", especially considering the poor quality of the cams ( ridges on cam surface and not smooth) and those terrible screws they were using in them with locktite.

 

Pretty sure that "technically difficult" phrase would better apply to them and their cam and cam mounting design.

 

But in any event, the stick is going the way of the tookie bird.

[[CPT]Crunch]

On 9/29/2018 at 1:59 PM, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

I thought someone might be interested in how I mounted the T-50 to a Wheel Stand Pro (WSP).  I bought the Thrustmaster Warthog (TMW) adapter for the WSP.  I also bought Virpil's Desktop Adapter for the TMW.  I flipped Virpil's adapter over mounting it to the WSP's adapter.  I then mounted Virpil's "desk mount" end into the T-50 mount.  The adapter helps to bring the stick closer and the downward bend will allow me to put on an extension.

Pretty simple set up, it attaches directly to both chair board with heavy bolts and to the stick base.  Hard to get good photo shots, made it as tight to the seat as possible.  Quarter inch rolled steel made for supporting granite counter tops.  You would probably invert it though, have it come from above.  They had many sizes at Lowes, but don't seem to list them on line.

 

Looks exactly like that, but smaller and 34mm wide, tried to find one a bit wider, but short on time. bracket

Quote

Quote

Quote

 

 

 

 

[HunDread]

Base out of stock again so end of story it seems.

[kestrel79]

When can we expect news on the new base?

[Lombra]

This doesn't affect me at all, but am I understanding correctly that they only offer a desktop base now? Isn't this kind of a big deal?

[dburne]

15 minutes ago, Lombra said:

This doesn't affect me at all, but am I understanding correctly that they only offer a desktop base now? Isn't this kind of a big deal?

 

Yeah mostly, except now they are saying one can use up to a 50mm extension with the WarBRD. Previously they did not recommend any extension for it.

But certainly not the longer extensions one might want to use with the T-50, like what came with the extension kit.

 

I hate to see the T-50 base discontinued, it made for a pretty good setup and after all is what brung them to the party. The more competition the better. Now for a center mount with longer extension choice is more limited.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by dburne

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

On 9/29/2018 at 11:48 PM, [CPT]Crunch said:

You won't be happy, there's be too much flex in those mounts fore to aft...

 

Thanks Crunch.  I appreciate the idea.  I wanted to give it some time before I responded.  There is flex in the direction you mention.  I loosened the screws for both directions which helped.  Even as it sits it is a 1000% improvement over what I had.  I have a 100mm extension on the way which may also help.  As I get more used to the setup I may opt for your solution.

[VIRPILControls]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Yeah mostly, except now they are saying one can use up to a 50mm extension with the WarBRD. Previously they did not recommend any extension for it.

But certainly not the longer extensions one might want to use with the T-50, like what came with the extension kit.

 

I hate to see the T-50 base discontinued, it made for a pretty good setup and after all is what brung them to the party. The more competition the better. Now for a center mount with longer extension choice is more limited.

 

The WarBRD can certainly handle extensions (https://youtu.be/3BZFBUsuesY?t=103), however as it's designed as a desktop stick it has a larger deflection angle (22 degrees vs 15 degrees of the MT-50 base), adding long extensions can increase the stroke length to the point where it would cause clearance issues. The cams and springs are designed primarily with desktop use in mind as well. 

 

It's not like we're completely forgetting about the centermount-extended flightstick market forever, just shaking up our product lineup.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Any word on your in works rudder system?  I'm ready any time you guys put it out.  That's the only weak link left.

[Seb71]

Initially Baur said (in the Russian forums) that, while they made that endurance test with extensions, to increase the loads and make the test even tougher, the base is not designed for extensions and you will lose the warranty if you use extensions with the WarBRD base. So that was not about clearances. Then someone asked how can Virpil know if a user used extensions and his answer was something like he counts on customers being honest about it.

[VIRPILControls]

11 hours ago, Seb71 said:

Initially Baur said (in the Russian forums) that, while they made that endurance test with extensions, to increase the loads and make the test even tougher, the base is not designed for extensions and you will lose the warranty if you use extensions with the WarBRD base. So that was not about clearances. Then someone asked how can Virpil know if a user used extensions and his answer was something like he counts on customers being honest about it.

I'll clarify here once and for all ?

 

The WarBRD is designed as a desktop stick, as such it has some design considerations such as a larger deflection angle of 22 degrees, and specific cam profiles and springs suited for non-extended use. 

 

Due to the large deflection angle it is possible that you may encounter clearance issues between the grip and the VPC Desk Mount. During certain manoeuvres it could be possible to damage your grip by hitting the desk mount. 

For example; in our testing with the TM Warthog grip or VPC Delta grip, when mounting the WarBRD to the lowest setting on the VPC Desk Mount, a max extension of 50mm can be used before there is clearance issues. Due to the taller nature of the MT-50 grips, there is insufficient clearance when using a 50mm extension in this setup.

 

Using any extensions on the VPC WarBRD is at the user's responsibility. Any damages caused to VPC devices (grips) by using an extension on the VPC WarBRD base will not be covered under warranty. There is no concern to the VPC WarBRD itself when using extensions.

Edited October 4, 2018 by VIRPILControls

[[CPT]Crunch]

On 10/3/2018 at 3:16 PM, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

 

Thanks Crunch.  I appreciate the idea.  I wanted to give it some time before I responded.  There is flex in the direction you mention.  I loosened the screws for both directions which helped.  Even as it sits it is a 1000% improvement over what I had.  I have a 100mm extension on the way which may also help.  As I get more used to the setup I may opt for your solution.

Yeah, it was also a big improvement over what I had, but going with a rock solid mount you'll see more gain.  The best example would be the Spitfires, they're very elevator sensitive, I absolutely hated flying them with that mount.  It's completely opposite, what I can now do with them, they fly amazing, all that's needed is a top notch setup.  Also seeing increased gunnery hits again, I'll take it.  

[Archie]

Damn, only just seen that they've discontinued the base  
Strange decision IMO. Hopefully I'll have no problems with mine, and if I do in future spares will be available.

[Seb71]

Maybe they will reconsider this poor decision and put the MongoosT-50 base back in production, at least until they can sell a proper replacement (a base designed for simpits/mounts and also for usage with longer extensions).

If they want to streamline production, they should discontinue 2 of the 3 variants of RH MongoosT-50 grip (they sell RH MongoosT-50, RH MongoosT-50 Black Edition and RH MongoosT-50CM) and one LH variant of the same grip (they have LH MongoosT-50 and LH MongoosT-50 Black Edition). I don't see the point of those extra versions. One right handed and one left handed (from the MongoosT-50 grip series) is enough. They now sell 5 versions in total.

[Sokol1]

Opera resume:

 

WarBRD+T50 grip is not suitable - neither authorized, for use extension - even 50mm, in VPC Deskmount attached to desk.  

Because grip may end hitting mount/desk, and user spoil his nail polish and sue VirPil.

 

Perhaps no issue using Mostertech longer mounts...  

 

But if player fit WarBRD base on floor, attached in Obutto's, etc,  no issues... well, except maybe knees on the way if use 175, 225 mm extension. 

 

https://uploads.mudspike.com/optimized/3X/9/7/977afd2b6f2850ef1a2933754bf8fd11a3c24e27_1_375x500.jpg

 

Be creative, gentleman.

 

EDIT - E.g. https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-1993-0-31020700-1503078062.jpg

Edited October 5, 2018 by Sokol1

[VIRPILControls]

► VPC MongoosT-50 Base - Final Batch

 

Hello VIRPILs!

 

After the successful launch of our new worldwide webstore, we were overwhelmed to see such monumental demand for our VPC MongoosT-50 base. 

 

Due to receiving messages from many users that they missed the opportunity to purchase this base yesterday, we will be doing a final production run before discontinuation which will be available for purchase by the end of November! 

 

As we are moving away from taking pre-orders, instead we request that anyone who still wishes to purchase an MT-50 base to simply sign up for the stock alert email on our webstore so that you are alerted when they are available.

 

If anyone has any questions - please contact us at support@virpil.com.

 

Thank you for your continued support!
VIRPIL Controls Team

Edited October 5, 2018 by VIRPILControls

[dburne]

10 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

Opera resume:

 

WarBRD+T50 grip is not suitable - neither authorized, for use extension - even 50mm, in VPC Deskmount attached to desk.  

Because grip may end hitting mount/desk, and user spoil his nail polish and sue VirPil.

 

Perhaps no issue using Mostertech longer mounts...  

 

But if player fit WarBRD base on floor, attached in Obutto's, etc,  no issues... well, except maybe knees on the way if use 175, 225 mm extension. 

 

https://uploads.mudspike.com/optimized/3X/9/7/977afd2b6f2850ef1a2933754bf8fd11a3c24e27_1_375x500.jpg

 

Be creative, gentleman.

 

 

Just be aware no warranty.

[Sokol1]

1 minute ago, dburne said:

 

Just be aware no warranty.

 

If you don't damage the grip (or nail polish  ) no issues:

 

"Any damages caused to VPC devices (grips) by using an extension on the VPC WarBRD base will not be covered under warranty. There is no concern to the VPC WarBRD itself when using extensions."

 

 

[VIRPILControls]

7 hours ago, Archie said:

Damn, only just seen that they've discontinued the base  
Strange decision IMO. Hopefully I'll have no problems with mine, and if I do in future spares will be available.

 

Don't worry - we've confirmed that support will be maintained for existing MT-50 base owners!

 

12 minutes ago, dburne said:

Just be aware no warranty.

 

Again - check my clarification message a bit further up. Due to the larger deflection angle, if you use long extensions it's possible there will be clearance issues with the VPC Desk Mount, meaning it would be possible to damage the grip by hitting the desk mount. These potential damages to the grip would not be covered under warranty (or if you hit your fingers)!

[dburne]

1 hour ago, VIRPILControls said:

 

Don't worry - we've confirmed that support will be maintained for existing MT-50 base owners!

 

 

Again - check my clarification message a bit further up. Due to the larger deflection angle, if you use long extensions it's possible there will be clearance issues with the VPC Desk Mount, meaning it would be possible to damage the grip by hitting the desk mount. These potential damages to the grip would not be covered under warranty (or if you hit your fingers)!

 

Ok so if one can customize a mount to accommodate for longer throw, no problem throwing a 150 mm extension on the WarBRD.

That will be good to know for those folks desiring to do so.

 

The "perception" is the WarBRD is designed for desktop use. I believe the Virpil site states as much.

I would not think smashing a grip on a desk and damaging it would be covered in warranty under any circumstance.

[kalbuth]

Dear... So from the pictures above, it is also OK to go further than the 150mm that was "allowed" for T50? I see a picture here doing what I was expressely told to NOT do if I wanted to have a safe T50 and be in warranty (I'm talking about this : https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-1993-0-31020700-1503078062.jpg ) :

* more than 150mm of extension, which can lead to overstress on the base

* base directly on a solid mount just under it without clearance (I think the picture shows the base actually attached via its frontal attachment thingy), as for example pulling the stick will also overstress the base touching the mount under it....

I'm quite at loss at the T50 allowance

[Seb71]

In the MongoosT-50 base's manual in Russian - which is more detailed (in English they only have a Quick Start guide) - they say the maximum allowed extension length is 150 mm.

[VIRPILControls]

1 hour ago, kalbuth said:

Dear... So from the pictures above, it is also OK to go further than the 150mm that was "allowed" for T50? I see a picture here doing what I was expressely told to NOT do if I wanted to have a safe T50 and be in warranty (I'm talking about this : https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-1993-0-31020700-1503078062.jpg ) :

* more than 150mm of extension, which can lead to overstress on the base

* base directly on a solid mount just under it without clearance (I think the picture shows the base actually attached via its frontal attachment thingy), as for example pulling the stick will also overstress the base touching the mount under it....

I'm quite at loss at the T50 allowance

 

150mm is the official max allowed extension length for the VPC MongoosT-50 base

[kalbuth]

So the above picture is kinda wrong

[Sokol1]

The tall T50 picture in il2.ru forum is user experimentation - at their own risk, with 100+75+50mm extensions = 225mm, length that don't allow use VKB Deskmount, hence need a custom mount.

 

 

 

[VIRPILControls]

Hello VIRPILs!

 

We’ve been getting a lot of questions about when our worldwide store will be restocked after the 1st October opening day rush. We’re now pleased to confirm that stock will be available to purchase from 19th October!

 

This will mark the first step of our new production plan utilizing our factory to keep our webstore frequently restocked with our products. We will not just be sending over small parcels of 10’s of products - this first restock will include close to 1,000 units of combined stock. We will continue to keep the webstore stocked to keep up with the demand to try and ensure that no one has to wait to get an order in!

 

All items will be restocked including the VPC WarBRD Base, VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle and VPC Constellation Delta Grip as well as all our accessories. Further news on the VPC MongoosT-50 Base will be coming in the near future. 

 

Everyone who has signed up for a stock alert notification should receive those emails when the stock has been activated on the store. For everyone else feel free to check out our new worldwide webstore at: 

 

www.virpil-controls.eu

 

If you have any questions please feel free to contact us at support@virpil.com.

 

Regards,
VIRPIL Controls Team

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Damn you [CPT]Crunch!!  You had to go plant the seed that I wouldn't be happy with my joystick adapter setup.  Couldn't let sleeping dogs lie...

 

Oh well... So I fabricated this from 1/8 inch steel to fit the Wheel Stand Pro Warthog adapter and now it is solid as a rock.  I also fitted it with explosive bolts in case of a bathroom emergency.

 

[[CPT]Crunch]

Well done, your elevator sensitive birds will show you some serious loving now.  Even a P-39 becomes a scalpel, till it runs out of steam.  It's going to pay off handsomely in the faster heavy birds on the way.  

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

On my joystick I'm having an issue.  When I put counter clockwise torque on the handle the main column screw connection becomes loose.  It doesn't take much pressure to do this.  Anyone else have this issue?

[[CPT]Crunch]

Not sure which screw your talking about, used to have the top, stick base, extension ring unscrew itself once in a while, but no small screws.  That quit happening once I changed the mount and brought the stick in closer with a slight height adjustment.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

1 hour ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Not sure which screw your talking about, used to have the top, stick base, extension ring unscrew itself once in a while, but no small screws.  That quit happening once I changed the mount and brought the stick in closer with a slight height adjustment.

 

It's the large cap screw at the base of the grip where it attaches to a 100mm extension. 

 

It's like an old joke, "Hey, the grip unscrews when I turn it left when I'm flying."  Answer, "Don't turn it left when your flying."  There is absolutely no need to turn it, just  reflex.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Yeah, doesn't take much to transmit some torque, usually someone shooting at you from the rear.  Little bit of something to give resistance ought to work, plumbers tape or pipe tread sealant, tread lockers might be a bit much, want to be able to disassemble without busting something.  In my case moving the stick ended the problem, didn't happen often, but always the wrong time when it did.  

[LLv24_Kuppis]

Anyone else has similar problem:

The T-50 Base loses its pitch (y-axis) calibration constantly. No matter how often I calibrate stick using virpil software, after a few moves the pitch calibration is usually somewhere between 51-68 %, or sometimes 49-41 % (50 % is the middle). The calibration changes constantly during the flight along the pitch axis. At the moment stick is quite unflyable, as stable flying and shooting accurately is very difficult (well, more than it is usually for me :))

I opened a ticket in Virpil Support Center a few days ago, but haven´t got any answer.