Junkers 52 "Tante Ju" /Lisunov Li2/C47 ❤️Fan Club & Help

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I was properly active online from 2008 in 1946 and I have to say I'm much more pleased with the BoX experience online. Try FNBF if you can, Royal Flight

[LLv34_Temuri]

I was properly active online from 2008 in 1946 and I have to say I'm much more pleased with the BoX experience online. Try FNBF if you can, Royal Flight

However, there's still nothing like SEOW for BoX. Haven't tried FNBF, but InWar accomplishes part of the feeling I get from SEOW. That being said, with the current BoX performance, I don't think a SEOW implementation would even be possible.

 

One thing I'd like to not be there in BoX "SEOW style" missions are the airfield spawns showing how many pilots are active on that field. Kills some of the immersion.

[xvii-Dietrich]

TL;DR:

 

To get at the civil aviation crowd - and win them over to flying BoX - you need understand all their motivations. It is not just about having nice transport aircraft, but also the environment, records and recognition to sustain their continuous participation.

 

 

*  *  *

 

 

There are several different concepts and ideas which motivate different types of pilots. Bringing them together is what can (re-)create the "Spirit of '46".

 

 

Planes

 

Different pilots have different strengths, reflexes and pace. They also have different preferences. If you diversify the planeset, you will diversify (and hence increase) the playerbase. Most people reading here (in a DC3/Ju52 fan page) will be interested in that diversity - we are preaching to the converted. But the planeset also increases the richness of the environment. Whether you fly a Ju52 or not, if you see one rumbling past your 109 on the runway, or spot one down below as you patrol with your LaGG, you see a new, different "lifeform" in the environment. This brings the sim to life, and adds depth to the world that makes it compelling. BoX has been improving relentlessly. Yes, we desperately need more plane roles (roles, not types), but we are getting there.

 

Points

 

But there needs to be a way to measure progress and contribution. The Airbus pilots on the civil sims put in thousands of hours. It is not just the flight that motivates them, but the number of passengers hauled, destinations visited, economy of fuel, etc. Visit any one of the civil aviation servers (e.g. IVAO) and you will find hundreds of players online just hauling cargo or passengers. At present, there are no stats for the transport aircraft. As I have stated multiple times, you can get the same stats sitting on the ground in a 109 with your engine off, as you can flying for over an hour in a Ju 52, enduring bad weather, navigating across unknown lands, dodging anti-aircraft fire, dropping off some canisters on a distant location, hauling back under attack, limping home on 2 engines and making an emergency (but safe!) landing on your home field. Yes, the civil-sim pilots (of which I am one) like their avionics, but it is the sense of persistent accomplishment which is equally a driving force.

 

Persistence

 

Which brings on the third point of persistence. The experience we had with the Storm of War campaigns was a 24/7 persistent environment. If there was no-one online, you could fly recon, or take out a radar station, or run transport missions. All of these things were contributing to the overall war-effort of your side. It didn't matter if it was 9am on a Tuesday morning and you were the only person on the server. That evening there would be more supplies at the forward bases for your team. But, if you give a lone player something to do, then they will do it. (Otherwise, they will wander off and do something else.) And, once you put a lone pilot on a server, then the server is seeded. In Storm of War, there would then be other pilots joining, and driving off the recon missions, or ingressing into enemy territory to hunt down transport flights, or whatever.

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

Other sims do some things very well. DCS has amazing detail and good avionics, but the few fighter planes in their WWII set make it very limited. There are some amazing servers in BoX, CloD and others, but there is no sense of accomplishment (i.e. statistics) for long-haul cargo flights, recon or SAR. And there are some wonderful BoX events (such as FNBF), but these are ephemeral without a systematic accumulation of achievements.

 

BoX has some amazing features. Paratroops, canisters and cargo-unload are superb. But they need the engine statistics and mission triggers to let the mission builds create the persistent campaigns that will allow the transport, rescue and recon pilots to do their thing and be recognised for it.

[EAF_Starfire]

I concur 100% :-)

[xvii-Dietrich]

Or to put it another way...

 

Imagine a server where the only stats that were recorded are:

 

• Cargo delivered to destination
• Canisters landed onto target
• Paratroops into dropzone
• Recon photos returned
• Medical evacuations
• Rescued aircrews

 

How long would the fighter-boys hang around for if, say, having shot down 352 enemy aircraft they still get "0-0-0-0-0-0 points" for it? 

 

 

Now look at the existing servers in BoX and consider why the transport pilots are mostly flying other sims.

[w00dy]

The more I read on this thread, the more I think about getting Ju52.

 

I was even lucky enough to sit in the cockpit of one last month, it even had a toilet at the back of the plane

[EAF_Starfire]

Currently half of EAF flies blue on Finish Dynamic Airwar to make sure that there are opposition. Before that our fighter guys switched server when there where a lack of opposition. Which left the rest of us as fighter food :-(

[Royal_Flight]

The more I read on this thread, the more I think about getting Ju52.

 

You really should.

 

I'm not even really sure why I bought it in the first place, I'm a bomber pilot so I mainly was trying to drive demand for anything that wasn't another fighter. But I wasn't really expecting to get much use out of it.

 

Right enough, I've never flown it in multiplayer, but that's more to do with the servers than anything else.

I'm singleplayer though... totally different ballgame. I spent a lot of time in the quick mission builder just shuttling cargo from one side of the map to another, or learning to navigate without GPS, or putting some AAA in and trying to avoid being shot down (incidentally, if you can dodge ground fire in a slow and ungainly Ju-52, doing it in an -88 or a Peshka is much easier).

 

Whoever the Kuban map was released I did all my sightseeing in the -52, cruising over the sea or through mountains. And trying to find a field at dusk or in the dark when you have to use the landing lights to see whether that's a runway or just a road is great fun.

 

Hopefully we get an equivalent for VVS soon and that will be an incentive for mission designers and server owners to create some content for us transport pilots.

But you won't regret picking up the -52, the sense of flight and motion is brilliant in something so big, it's like flying a garden shed around and you can really feel the weight in lifting it off the ground or hauling into a turn.

 

Plus, something that's not a fighter... always a good thing. Haha

[xvii-Dietrich]

Whoever the Kuban map was released I did all my sightseeing in the -52, cruising over the sea or through mountains. And trying to find a field at dusk or in the dark when you have to use the landing lights to see whether that's a runway or just a road is great fun.

 

Night-flying is an art.

 

If you want to see a gorgeous detail of the Ju 52, as modelled in IL-2:BoX, then look at the external view of the landing light being deployed when you switch it on.

 

Such a small thing, and so easily over-looked, but it is a real tribute to the dedication of the Dev-Team on this sim.

 

Simply beautiful.

[Field-Ops]

I bought the Ju52 a while ago because I finally decided to just buy everything from this dev team, but never gave flying it much thought. last night I flew one of the user made missions for this thing and I've never had as much fun flying while not directly related to combat in a flight sim before. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Field-Ops

[w00dy]

You really should.

 

I'm not even really sure why I bought it in the first place, I'm a bomber pilot so I mainly was trying to drive demand for anything that wasn't another fighter. But I wasn't really expecting to get much use out of it.

 

Right enough, I've never flown it in multiplayer, but that's more to do with the servers than anything else.

I'm singleplayer though... totally different ballgame. I spent a lot of time in the quick mission builder just shuttling cargo from one side of the map to another, or learning to navigate without GPS, or putting some AAA in and trying to avoid being shot down (incidentally, if you can dodge ground fire in a slow and ungainly Ju-52, doing it in an -88 or a Peshka is much easier).

 

Whoever the Kuban map was released I did all my sightseeing in the -52, cruising over the sea or through mountains. And trying to find a field at dusk or in the dark when you have to use the landing lights to see whether that's a runway or just a road is great fun.

 

Hopefully we get an equivalent for VVS soon and that will be an incentive for mission designers and server owners to create some content for us transport pilots.

But you won't regret picking up the -52, the sense of flight and motion is brilliant in something so big, it's like flying a garden shed around and you can really feel the weight in lifting it off the ground or hauling into a turn.

 

Plus, something that's not a fighter... always a good thing. Haha

 

Thanks for the feed back on the Ju52 guys

 

I'm off work for a week after next week and the wife and the kids are going out one of the days. So I will get the Ju52 then, as I only got BOK last week and currently busy going through the BOK planes that have been released. Not even tried the Duck yet, as the spit is great fun. Though like some of you, I also like the big planes and only play single player.

[Gambit21]

You can check out my Ju-52 missions then.

I haven't tested how they're behaving with the new FM, however my guess is that formations are a bit wonky right now. This is the case with all aircraft until some adjustments are made by the devs.

[56RAF_Roblex]

 

 

Hopefully we get an equivalent for VVS soon

 

I just saw Jason mention in passing that he has already confirmed the  LI-2 is being worked on.    I must have missed that announcement!

[Gambit21]

Link?

I remember him saying he wants to make it happen - not that it's already being worked on.

In other words - no promises.

Did I miss something?

[56RAF_Roblex]

Maybe I am reading too much into the sentence  "The Po-2 is already being built. I've already mentioned that and the Li-2. We need another engineer to build the FMs and that will be the slowdown."  as I cannot find where that mention is. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by 56RAF_Roblex

[Gambit21]

Huh - well I didn't even realize the Po-2 was already underway so it's news to me in any case.

Thanks

[OrLoK]

The new planes have been mentioned here and there but we still dont know yet if they'll pass muster.

 

Finger crossed though.

 

The ju52 is a blast to fly both on and offline.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I just saw Jason mention in passing that he has already confirmed the  LI-2 is being worked on.    I must have missed that announcement!

 

 

Link?

I remember him saying he wants to make it happen - not that it's already being worked on.

In other words - no promises.

Did I miss something?

 

Just to be clear from the original forum post on this... He's got a third party group working on the Po-2 biplane. If they succeed with that project then he would like them to do the Li-2 (presumably to offer parity with the Ju52). So it's planned but everything has to work out ok with the first project. I'm optimistic that we'll see it but I suspect that it may take some time to complete.

[Gambit21]

Ahh...coming back to me now.

Thanks Shamy.

[Gambit21]

W00dy,

 

Here's the link for the Ju-52 single player missions.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28858-single-player-ju-52-missions-gambit-21/

 

Keep in mind my caveat about possible formation//Form-up AI problems.

Those will be worked out in time, but for the moment nothing to be done about it.

[56RAF_Roblex]

Just to be clear from the original forum post on this... He's got a third party group working on the Po-2 biplane. If they succeed with that project then he would like them to do the Li-2 (presumably to offer parity with the Ju52). So it's planned but everything has to work out ok with the first project. I'm optimistic that we'll see it but I suspect that it may take some time to complete.

 

Yeah I got that it was an 'eventually' thing but it still makes me happy that 1C have agreed it is something worth doing.  So many planes get asked for and there is no official response (not a complaint. They cannot answer every crazy suggestion) so you don't know if they read it and just mentally said 'Stupid idea. Never going to happen.' or 'Hmm that would be worth thinking about later.' 

[xvii-Dietrich]

Link?

I remember him saying he wants to make it happen - not that it's already being worked on.

In other words - no promises.

Did I miss something?

 

 

Here is the exact quote:

 

Let me be clear.

 

Po-2 is an experiemnt.

 

Li-2 is a wish and only if Po-2 gets made.

 

 

They are from the discussion on the Po-2. There are several references in that thread to the Li-2. In my opinion, here are the significant ones (but browse the entire thread for the full story):

 

• https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30827-i-beg-you-give-us-po-2/?p=504271
• https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30827-i-beg-you-give-us-po-2/?p=504539

 

The upshot of it is that the Po-2 is being built by a 3rd-party contractor. If it goes well, then they will be commissioned to do other projects, possibly the Li-2.

 

[w00dy]

W00dy,

 

Here's the link for the Ju-52 single player missions.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28858-single-player-ju-52-missions-gambit-21/

 

Keep in mind my caveat about possible formation//Form-up AI problems.

Those will be worked out in time, but for the moment nothing to be done about it.

 

Thanks Gambit, I will give it a go when I'm off

 

And keep what you have said in mind.

Edited October 13, 2017 by w00dy

[Royal_Flight]

 

 

Here is the exact quote:

 

 

 

They are from the discussion on the Po-2. There are several references in that thread to the Li-2. In my opinion, here are the significant ones (but browse the entire thread for the full story):

 

• https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30827-i-beg-you-give-us-po-2/?p=504271
• https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30827-i-beg-you-give-us-po-2/?p=504539

The upshot of it is that the Po-2 is being built by a 3rd-party contractor. If it goes well, then they will be commissioned to do other projects, possibly the Li-2.

Good stuff. I knew they were both in the pipeline via a third party, didn't know the order they would come in. The Po-2 will be great fun and offer a lot of variety but I'm really looking forward to the Li-2.

Hopefully we'll get it sooner rather than later.

 

 

W00dy,

 

Here's the link for the Ju-52 single player missions.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28858-single-player-ju-52-missions-gambit-21/

 

Keep in mind my caveat about possible formation//Form-up AI problems.

Those will be worked out in time, but for the moment nothing to be done about it.

Awesome, I'll get stuck into those this weekend. Thanks.

[xvii-Dietrich]

So...

 

Jason Williams showed some screenshots in the recent announcement, that they are working on a Po-2. He said there are " NO PROMISES " (his boldface and all caps!). But if it works, then the contractors working on the Po-2 will move on to work on the Li-2.

 

 

The Li-2 is a variant of the DC-3 / C-47, right?

 

And maybe it will be able to carry and drop paratroops?

 

So we could maybe do some Western-Allied paintschemes?

 

And possibly use it on the Bodenplatte map?

 

To recreate:

 

 

Operation Market Garden

 

Allied Paratroop Drop over Arnhem.

September 1944.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden#Market

 

 

[Gambit21]

There was one sitting on the field at Y-29, so there's one accounted for.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The Li-2 started started as a license-built DC-3 but evolved into much more throughout its career. It packed defensive armament (ShKAS or UBT, depending on the vintage), could carry a pretty healthy bomb load (1000kg nominal, 2000kg maximum) and used some of the DC-3's great characteristics to perform insertion and extraction missions, and partisan supply through drops, short landings and glider towing.

[Danziger]

No no no absolutely not. Don't you guys remember the Li-2 is all metric!

[Royal_Flight]

In the short-term I'd be more than content with an RAF and a USAAF skin. Until such times as a proper mod can be made.

 

How significant are the differences between the two? I assume it's more than just removing the turret and the bomb racks and put the instruments back to imperial (so they make sense again... haha)

[Monostripezebra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSLevbZBnyc

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgSranzWhc

Edited November 21, 2017 by Monostripezebra

[ZachariasX]

Oh my. Careful with that plane. Even when flying luggage is handled with care it requires a lot of love to be kept in shape.

 

 

Just foday I found poor HB-HOP in this shape. She will be a hangar queen until April 2018. They found that 10'000 hours is what it takes for the main spar starting to get cracks. Sadly, this does not only apply only for CASA-built crates (where they found out about that kind of damage in the first place), also Junkers' are concerned, as HB-HOP. They have to replace her entire mid section of the main wing spar.

 

It is getting really problematic to keep them in flying condition. Most mechanics that spent a life as mchanics on DC-3, DC-6, DC-7 etc. are getting too old to do the work. What is worse, the knowledge at the BAZL (FOCA, Federal Office of Civil Aviation) on how to clear such aircraft for operational status is rapidly fading. Those federal idiots heavily damaged the Breitling Connie by requiring "to test the wheel brakes" in a fashion that they had to apply full power with wheel brakes on. Rather quickly the wheels were on fire. Not just the brakes were toast (never mind the tyres), they also bent the landing gear by doing so! The poor crate now sits on jacks in a hangar, blocking a place that would be needed to service airlines. They are still 1 million USD short of getting her flyable again.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Well hopefully they can get them overhauled and flying in the coming yers. Would be a shame to have the entire fleet of Ju Air grounded and spending the rest of their lifes in dusty museums.

 

I missed the opportunity to fly in one once, won't happen a second time.

[Haza]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSLevbZBnyc

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgSranzWhc

 

Mono,

 

I really hope that we are not going to see more of this with the BOK aircraft that somebody gifted to you?

I sometimes wonder whether you make the videos for entertainment purposes or to take the "*iss" out of the game!?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Haza, Dr. Zebra's videos are an institution protected by UNESCO. They are an essential pillar that keeps this community driving forwards, and this striped animal's brilliant exploits mean we can see how far can the envelope be pushed without having to try (and fail to) do it ourselves.

 

#JeSuisZebra

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

#JeSuisZeeebra also changed Facebook Profile to Zeeebra Filter.

 

#ThoughtsandPrayers

[Archie]

Are there any campaigns for the JU52? Soooo tempted to get it in the sale...

[Retnek]

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28858-single-player-ju-52-missions-gambit-21/page-3?hl=%2Bgambit&do=findComment&comment=537312

 

100 % fun, highly recommended!

[Archie]

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28858-single-player-ju-52-missions-gambit-21/page-3?hl=%2Bgambit&do=findComment&comment=537312

 

100 % fun, highly recommended!

Thanks Retnek!

[Royal_Flight]

Haza, Dr. Zebra's videos are an institution protected by UNESCO. They are an essential pillar that keeps this community driving forwards, and this striped animal's brilliant exploits mean we can see how far can the envelope be pushed without having to try (and fail to) do it ourselves.

 

#JeSuisZebra

#JeSuisZeeebra also changed Facebook Profile to Zeeebra Filter.

 

#ThoughtsandPrayers

#JeSuisZebra

[Archie]

Well, bought the Ju52, and what a fab plane it is! Huge fun just flying it around Kuban.