They just keep making my decision easier and easier

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

So for those that are familiar with War Thunder, with the incoming ptach, aircraft will not render until they are at a very close range. so they will be invisble.....

 

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/81674-please-tell-me-this-isnt-true-no-rendering-of-planes-anymore/

[SR-F_Winger]

Well, who cares about this "game" when he can have a real sim like BOS?

[Fifi]

I agree with Winger, even though i find this "real sim" a bit too simplistic on controls/commands.

[Bearcat]

It should have been a no brainer from the jump...

[Wolger]

I agree with Winger, even though i find this "real sim" a bit too simplistic on controls/commands.

 

I'd say War Thunder FRB mode is a sim to an extent.

First impression on the BoS Alpha: Full aircraft controls and Full Real Battle in WT is not much diff with BoS. Maybe the FM is not accurate but who are we to question when we are not real flyers of such airplanes.

 

They also have flaps, trims, engine controls like radiator and oil flaps control, propeller pitch and so on. Learn all this engine management stuffs from WT and maneuvers from WT Devs YouTube videos

 

I even feel that BoS is too simplistic compare to DCS:P-51D. It's all relative.

 

War Thunder FRB has no future when they're going to implement ground forces and they only focus on Arcade Battle mode. That's why people jump ship and many are going to. I hope there will be no labels/icons in BoS just like in RoF 1.5x Full Real.

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

It should have been a no brainer from the jump...

well it was, but it just makes the decision to fork over 100 seem smarter lol

[BeastyBaiter]

For me, 1.37 was going to be the make or break update for that game. If they fixed stuff and made it ok-ish as a soft sim, I'd keep playing it alongside BoS because it does have a some interesting planes. It seems I'll be deleting it given what I saw on the dev server today. Disappointing tbh, I had hopes for that game when I first started playing it last January.

[Bearcat]

I got turned off by WT a long time ago.. It's great for someone .. but not for me.

 

 

 

I agree with Winger, even though i find this "real sim" a bit too simplistic on controls/commands.

 

I would hold that judgement till the final product comes out.. at 32% .... y'know whutimean..

[Cybermat47]

Well, if this is the case... unistallment time.

 

And I was actually getting to like WT

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

the devs said it was a bug...after about 15 pages of rage in the dev server forum

[Fifi]

I would hold that judgement till the final product comes out.. at 32% .... y'know whutimean..

 

Sure Bearcat 

But as stated by devs from day one, noway to get full fonctional cockpits...even final product.

I understand their statement (anyway can't do nothing against  ) and it require sooo much more work...and time is money... but i shouldn't have tasted/tried other sim... you know the one 

Those fully fonctional pits are so immersive to me, and giving a so new incredible flying experience! (when well done of course), but switching back and forth to BOS...something is missing to me in this beautiful simulation, and that's it!

BOS global stunning standarts (even at 32%) could easily support full fonctional cockpits (yes fully clickable) in my opinion, but without absolutely all cockpit fonctions modelled, it can unfortunately only remains a step behind, and i'm so sorry about.

Even ROF could have been this way! (even with many less instruments). I was supporting this idea, but...

Now, i don't really like starting my engine just hitting 1 key. To me a true simulation has to simulate the more accurately absolutely everything in those birds! 

I also understand that plenty people (probably the majority here) don't want to care about starting plane as the real ones, or be able to adjust their altitude gauge in regard of airfield barometric pressure --->They just want to fight and have fun by getting the more victories as possible!

My perso view with those simulations is to learn and be able to fly what i would never have the chance in real. That's the purpose of a simulation to me. The closest as possible to reality. It goes as well for FM and DM of course!

Pressing the trigger and watching explosions doesn't procure me the virtual flying experience. Just peanuts...but i'm sure you know all what i mean 

So, without the above said, it will remains simplistic to me. Even with a stunning FM or DM.

Huh, we can't even turn on/off the batterie, or turn on/off the radio!  (but i'm confident devs will add this, at least!)

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

Sure Bearcat 

But as stated by devs from day one, noway to get full fonctional cockpits...even final product.

I understand their statement (anyway can't do nothing against  ) and it require sooo much more work...and time is money... but i shouldn't have tasted/tried other sim... you know the one 

Those fully fonctional pits are so immersive to me, and giving a so new incredible flying experience! (when well done of course), but switching back and forth to BOS...something is missing to me in this beautiful simulation, and that's it!

BOS global stunning standarts (even at 32%) could easily support full fonctional cockpits (yes fully clickable) in my opinion, but without absolutely all cockpit fonctions modelled, it can unfortunately only remains a step behind, and i'm so sorry about.

Even ROF could have been this way! (even with many less instruments). I was supporting this idea, but...

Now, i don't really like starting my engine just hitting 1 key. To me a true simulation has to simulate the more accurately absolutely everything in those birds! 

I also understand that plenty people (probably the majority here) don't want to care about starting plane as the real ones, or be able to adjust their altitude gauge in regard of airfield barometric pressure --->They just want to fight and have fun by getting the more victories as possible!

My perso view with those simulations is to learn and be able to fly what i would never have the chance in real. That's the purpose of a simulation to me. The closest as possible to reality. It goes as well for FM and DM of course!

Pressing the trigger and watching explosions doesn't procure me the virtual flying experience. Just peanuts...but i'm sure you know all what i mean 

So, without the above said, it will remains simplistic to me. Even with a stunning FM or DM.

Huh, we can't even turn on/off the batterie, or turn on/off the radio!  (but i'm confident devs will add this, at least!)

I dont mind having to go through the entire process to start the engine, i find it much more immersive. But I also think the option should be there for those who dont wanna go through it all. i dont think the things you discussed break immersion in the least, i understand why you do, but to me these are really minor features that add to immersion, nothing more. There are a lot of days i dont hop into dcs because i dont want to spend 6 minutes doing engine run-ups, another couple adjusting weapons proffiles, and a minute or so to enter wind corrections into the latse panel. 

 

tl;dr:

 

good points, but the issue you raise arent game breaking and can be implemented. it isnt the end of the world that they arent in now

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I dropped War Thunder ages ago. All the eye candy can not hide the fact it is only a light arcade game.

[Panzerlang]

Sure Bearcat 

But as stated by devs from day one, noway to get full fonctional cockpits...even final product.

I understand their statement (anyway can't do nothing against  ) and it require sooo much more work...and time is money... but i shouldn't have tasted/tried other sim... you know the one 

Those fully fonctional pits are so immersive to me, and giving a so new incredible flying experience! (when well done of course), but switching back and forth to BOS...something is missing to me in this beautiful simulation, and that's it!

BOS global stunning standarts (even at 32%) could easily support full fonctional cockpits (yes fully clickable) in my opinion, but without absolutely all cockpit fonctions modelled, it can unfortunately only remains a step behind, and i'm so sorry about.

Even ROF could have been this way! (even with many less instruments). I was supporting this idea, but...

Now, i don't really like starting my engine just hitting 1 key. To me a true simulation has to simulate the more accurately absolutely everything in those birds! 

I also understand that plenty people (probably the majority here) don't want to care about starting plane as the real ones, or be able to adjust their altitude gauge in regard of airfield barometric pressure --->They just want to fight and have fun by getting the more victories as possible!

My perso view with those simulations is to learn and be able to fly what i would never have the chance in real. That's the purpose of a simulation to me. The closest as possible to reality. It goes as well for FM and DM of course!

Pressing the trigger and watching explosions doesn't procure me the virtual flying experience. Just peanuts...but i'm sure you know all what i mean 

So, without the above said, it will remains simplistic to me. Even with a stunning FM or DM.

Huh, we can't even turn on/off the batterie, or turn on/off the radio!  (but i'm confident devs will add this, at least!)

 

I agree with this. It's not a game-breaker for me but it would have been the marzipan on the cake. I'm not into mouse-clickable cockpits at all, but with everything mappable to hardware controls (including the keyboard) it would have been a truly awesome feature.

[Fifi]

The best compromise for an awesome simulation would have been to make an option for hard core simmers with 100% fonctional cockpit, and an other option with more simplistic/fast handling cockpit for "gamers".

But i'm always dreaming...because the time and hard work spent doing this (full fonctional) wouldn't worth it...they wouldn't sell more IL2 BOS imo (and unfortunately).

So in fact, why care? Flight sims are quite a niche market, and hard core simmers even more! So...

But i'm confident some day this will happen somewhere. I would support it 200%   

Could say again - because of CloD first "interesting" experience...good for some, bad for others.

[Obi1Wingman]

Ahh time is money gents, and the makers of games today tend to lean towards the dollars in terms of functionality and mass appeal.

This game should live up to most of our hopes, with 11k+ users signed up. Of course there will always be a small percentage that wants more/less, but at the end of the day, we have a great game in our hands, better than most (if not all) on the market, whether we start our engines with one button or not.

See you in the skies.

[cucoso]

War Thunder is an arcade/childish game  

 

after 70 hours spent in that game in FRB i just gave up... the controls are a joke...  using the joystik is a nightmare... is a game for mouse-aimers, thats why they don t need to fix the joystik problems, cause they get more money from all thoose mouseuser. and the mouse need to perform better than a joystik   LOL                 the FMs aren t modelled at all in some cases. in WT you can fly lots of plane,,,,,shure,,,,, but the only real difference between planes is the 3d model!!!!   compression at high speed in WT isn t modelled at all!      looks like fling a paper plane       

 

so i just wanna tell you: 'STAY AWAY FROM WAR THUNDER'!!!!!!

[Obi1Wingman]

I agree, stay away if your looking for a BoS experience.

I would like to point out, as you mentioned, that you do have the opportunity to fly many, many planes.

And even if they are not modelled correctly, I love the opportunity to fly a B17,then hop into a Mustang, Spitfire, or Thunderbolt, however shallow the experience may be.

See you in the skies.

[Wolger]

I agree with this. It's not a game-breaker for me but it would have been the marzipan on the cake. I'm not into mouse-clickable cockpits at all, but with everything mappable to hardware controls (including the keyboard) it would have been a truly awesome feature.

 

Not going to map hundreds of controls, but just the most common or widely used one and the rest can use mouse. Clickable cockpit controls is good like the way they implement in DCS, the pop-up label is useful to show what a control does moreso if the instructions are in non-English. It took me weeks or months to properly fly the P-51D in DCS while I managed to fly/land LaGG-3 without crashing on the first try. DCS is an excellent example of hi-fidelity sim. Probably we're looking at 2 different things here.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Wolger

[thx1138]

The best compromise for an awesome simulation would have been to make an option for hard core simmers with 100% fonctional cockpit, and an other option with more simplistic/fast handling cockpit for "gamers".

But i'm always dreaming...because the time and hard work spent doing this (full fonctional) wouldn't worth it...they wouldn't sell more IL2 BOS imo (and unfortunately).

So in fact, why care? Flight sims are quite a niche market, and hard core simmers even more! So...

But i'm confident some day this will happen somewhere. I would support it 200% 

Could say again - because of CloD first "interesting" experience...good for some, bad for others.

 

It did happen, the sim is called Falcon 4. Clickable cockpit that kept you involved and learning about the F 16 systems because you HAD to.

 

Best offline campaign EVER in a flight sim ! You actually felt like you were part of fighting a war campaign wise.

 

I would rather have a good offline campaign like F4 than a clickable cockpit any day !!!!

Edited December 1, 2013 by thx1138

[Kaenzdhi]

It did happen, the sim is called Falcon 4.

No, it's not a good exemple. Falcon 4 was the most buggy flight game, it was unplayable.

BOS , IMO has the perfect level for WW2 combat sim, for hardore simmer (like me) and casual simmer. Even in alpha, it's more enjoyable, realistic, and immersive to fly the Lagg/BF109  in BOS (IMO we get a better sense a flying the real thing) than the P51 in DCS . For a combat flight simulator there are things more important than clickable cockpit.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Scorlhov

[71st_AH_Hooves]

IMHO BoS strikes the perfect balance between systems management and Dogfighting focus.  And honestly this is what MOST people are going to look for.  There is no point in modeling all that other stuff for the very small population that wants it.  I don't mind it but honestly besides the fuel pedcock.   I don't click a single extra button.  its prop pitch and trim and flaps.  All mapped to my joystick and throttle.  

 

  And WT...  that CEM is SO generic its silly.  BoS's systems just like CloD are going to be A/C specific.  And it will draw so many more people than anything thats more complicated.  Thats a win for the community, as 1CGS needs some more money to build those F6F's and Zeroes............See what I did there

[senseispcc]

This is once again the discussion for a full realism or a playable game! I am for an in between were everyone can find is the perfect middle for our self and not for anyone else. All this is a question of taste and interest in the simulation aspect or the game. Your choice, your decision.  :-o

 

[Cybermat47]

War Thunder is OK on HB, and the community is just like ours with the complaining about flight models and such.

[Fifi]

It did happen, the sim is called Falcon 4. 

 

Oh, was thinking about WW2 warbirds...

Never had Falcon 4, so can't tell about campaign, but heard very positive comments about 

 

In warbirds simulation, CloD was on the good way imo, but 777 association and experience was missing (to build what i'm expecting from a simulation)

And it seems they don't want to renew the experience...

Now DCS got it very spot on to me, but with only 1 WW2 bird. No campaign, no war accurate theatre, and only 1 opponent...but what a bird and flying experience!

The cooking of what they will probably realise and release... smells sooo good to me!

BOS anyway have very good points under the hat, FM and eye candy at the moment. 

Edited December 1, 2013 by Fifi

[FuriousMeow]

I don't understand why clicking a button with the mouse makes it more "hardcore" or realistic, than using a button on the HOTAS to peform the same function. I press a button in real life, button is pressed - much the same was as button pressed on HOTAS, presses button in cockpit. But fumbling for the mouse, then staring at the location I want to click on the cockpit with the mouse is more backwards and less realistic to me.

[thx1138]

No, it's not a good exemple. Falcon 4 was the most buggy flight game, it was unplayable.

 

Try the BMS 4 version now, you will be impressed. And no other sim has ever come close to the offline campaign of F4 !

 

I'm a true believer in BOS don't get me wrong, but F4 had the right idea (s) 15 years ago !

[Fifi]

I don't understand why clicking a button with the mouse makes it more "hardcore" or realistic, than using a button on the HOTAS to peform the same function. I press a button in real life, button is pressed - much the same was as button pressed on HOTAS, presses button in cockpit. But fumbling for the mouse, then staring at the location I want to click on the cockpit with the mouse is more backwards and less realistic to me.

 

You're right Furious   but not enough hotas/joystick buttons for the majority.

So mouse clicking is the best compromise for everybody to access all cockpit fonctions, in my opinion.

Anyway,you always have both solutions, and can map as much fonctions as you want.

[Obi1Wingman]

See, and this is where it all went wrong for many games. I can smell it here too...

Once you do offer the choice, (arcade/hb/fb), the elitism starts, the lines are drawn, and we will never find that happy gel.

Make the call now, let everybody know what the game is, and how it will be played.

[Obi1Wingman]

Oh, and Falcon 4, with its 1 million page manual at the time, was great.

But who remembers EF2000?

[thx1138]

Oh, and Falcon 4, with its 1 million page manual at the time, was great.

But who remembers EF2000?

 

I do First time I ever did aerial refueling.

 

Just like Chuck Yegars Flight Simulator, Falcon 3 with MiG 29 & F18, SWOTL (Who can forget that ?) Wings Of Glory, Strike Commander, US Navy Fighters, F 14 Fleet Defender, F 15 SE, the all time classic tornado, and the iconic Falcon 4. Throw in CFS 2 and CFS 3.

 

I still have all these plus a few other non prime time flight sim's. Il 2 series and ROF stole my time recently, and with the way BOS is going it will take ALL my sim time in the future. I can't wait !

[71st_AH_Hooves]

See, and this is where it all went wrong for many games. I can smell it here too...

Once you do offer the choice, (arcade/hb/fb), the elitism starts, the lines are drawn, and we will never find that happy gel.

Make the call now, let everybody know what the game is, and how it will be played.

Which, thank jebus, is EXACTLY what 1CGS have done from day 1!   We all know EXACTLY what the level of Sim vs game is going to be here.  Very good point sir.

Edited December 2, 2013 by SYN_Hooves

[Uriah]

I think 777 studios have a chance at making two 'games'.  The Combat Air Sim that is now BoS.  But with the great physics model that they have they can build a 'game' for those people that just want a as much of a flight sim that a computer can deliver.  The two games would serve entirely two different markets and give those involve two different revenue streams.   

[Phant0m]

But Uriah, it would take significantly more time and honestly isn't worth it because DCS will already have that covered. It is always an interesting discussion about what makes a game a 'sim', what is artsy, what is realistic and which offers more immersion. The devs want to make an accessible, realistic combat simulator with the ability to add more aircraft/theatres/maps in an acceptable timeframe - I personally feel that what they have produced thus far is spot on.

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

But Uriah, it would take significantly more time and honestly isn't worth it because DCS will already have that covered. It is always an interesting discussion about what makes a game a 'sim', what is artsy, what is realistic and which offers more immersion. The devs want to make an accessible, realistic combat simulator with the ability to add more aircraft/theatres/maps in an acceptable timeframe - I personally feel that what they have produced thus far is spot on.

this

[Kaenzdhi]

Try the BMS 4 version now, you will be impressed. And no other sim has ever come close to the offline campaign of F4 !

 

I'm a true believer in BOS don't get me wrong, but F4 had the right idea (s) 15 years ago !

Lol, I fly falcon 4 since day 1 (after flying falcon 3)and all versions (freefalcon, openfalcon,allied force...) till BMS, and yes you are right BMS is a great achievement of the FANS, but that isn't the point. The point is, 7 years of developpment for 1 plane, the Cie went bankrupt, support it till patch 1.07 and stop with an unplayable game.

Do you want this for BOS? I don't think so..

[BeastyBaiter]

I don't think a clickable cockpit really adds anything in the context of WW2. The planes just aren't so complex that you can't keep track of keyboard commands or assign it all to a hotas. They are also a horrible pain to use. It's a lot easier to reach out and push a keyboard button than it is to aim your TIR at a button on the screen and then move the mouse around to click it all while flying a plane. Clickable cockpits are a UI disaster. They are required for some very complicated planes like the Ka-50 if you want it to be realistic, but for something simple like a WW2 fighter, they serve no purpose.

 

Additionally, the extra CEM that CloD offers isn't really that big of a deal. The difference between the BoS Bf-109 and the CloD Bf-109 is a fuel cock lever and magneto switches. That's it. So it takes 3 button pushes to start the engine in CloD but only 1 in BoS. It has no effect on anything once the engine is running. Is it really worth programming that in to a game about combat? I think not.

[Panzerlang]

I quite enjoyed the complexity of starting the engines in CloD. Before I got them all sussed I felt like I was trying to steal the plane.

[SYN_Ricky]

I quite enjoyed the complexity of starting the engines in CloD. Before I got them all sussed I felt like I was trying to steal the plane.

 

I also do but honestly apart from opening the fuel cocks and setting the magnetos you don't do much more than in BOS. Managing the fuel system, but I haven't made a single flight in CloD where I really had to care about that.

 

I also enjoy starting the P-51 in DCS, but it's not a deal breaker for if I don't have this level of complexity at start-up, as long as the systems and their effects on the airplanes are correctly simulated.

[mondog]

I'd say War Thunder FRB mode is a sim to an extent.

 

 

When I first played that mode, it felt like a spiritual successor to IL2:1946. Its very similar but 'gamified' if thats a word.