G4

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Two full servers and two pretty close about two hours ago. Almost 300 online. Granted it's small but it is still improving every couple of months. 2017 seems like it will be pretty good for flight simming and interest in our sport.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I really hope you are right HerrMurf.

[BletchleyGeek]

This is an approximation of the actual data for Battle of Stalingrad on Steam:

http://steamspy.com/app/307960

that lists about 50,000 owners for the game on Steam. These numbers are just an approximation, but seems to be inline with the number of registered users on this forum.

50,000 is not bad at all, for a hard core sim like this, that asks you money to play it.

I have no idea what fraction of those 50,000 are the MP guys. Judging from your numbers on the forum, obviously you are far from being the majority of the user base.

I am a vs AI guy exclusively, and this sim just blows out of the water DCS - guess why. I just recently bought, after nearly two years and a half, an X55 to play BOx. So I am as casual and wet behind the ears as you can find, and I am not a sock puppet or otherwise affiliated with devs or any of the "factions" and "clans" I see the vocal members of this community to be splitted into.

I do think that 1C/777 really needs to release a free to play version/demo with one flyable plane and map so people can check out by themselves how wonderful this sim is.

The tone of some posters could make some less adventurous souls to stay clear from BOx: sometimes peeps bash it as it was as corny as Lucasfilm's Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe...

As for the G4, I do enjoy working around historical constraints. And I will patiently wait to be able to fly the Zero vs the Me 262 some day

Edited January 3, 2017 by BletchleyGeek

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Hard core sim :D

[Caudron431]

 

The tone of some posters could make some less adventurous souls to stay clear from BOx: sometimes peeps bash it as it was as corny as Lucasfilm's Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe...

 

 

 

The Forums seem populated with people swearing they don't/won't play this sim anymore, etc, etc.

 

They are so loud, things have to change according to their agenda. They know well that the bad publicity will affect sales, but they don't care: bashing the game to put maximum pressure on the devs so that they change things according to their wish that's the way they want things to be done. They don't care about anything else than their "injured" ego... that would actually be funny if there wasn't so much at stake (survival of the genre). Behind most of  the pseudo "reasoning" there's mostly uncontrolled frustration.

 

But what's disturbing is that their comments look like excuses, like saying: "if you fly this aircraft and you're shot down, it's not you fault, this game sucks..." "you fly against this AC and you're shot down, well it's not your fault it is because it is overmodelled..." "you're shot down, it's because of the devs bias".

 

We know each sim has its qualities and its cons, but listen to them: they never focus on what is particulary good and remarkable in this sim. Everything is so much better in other sims, yet they still post to spoil the atmosphere, and they do it on purpose i think.

 

I remember the "hysterical data" provided by some members when the some flight model was changed. OMG, lol, while reading i had actually the clear impression that the words on the screen were yelling. 

 

 

 

So welcome BletchleyGeek, i just wanted to say hello and thanks for your post, it's refreshing to read positive comments from newcomers!

[BletchleyGeek]

 

So welcome BletchleyGeek, i just wanted to say hello and thanks for your post, it's refreshing to read positive comments from newcomers!

 

Cheers mate / Merci bien

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Hey, I LOVED Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe. It's what got me into flight sims in the first place. I might have to go see if I can find an emulator site now!

[LukeFF]

 

 

Most have BoS installed, but are still reeling from the CloD debacle and don't trust developers anymore

 

Reeling? Good grief, get a grip already. How many years has it been since all that with CloD happened? You make it sound like it was a tragedy of epic, life-changing proportions.  

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Reeling? Good grief, get a grip already. How many years has it been since all that with CloD happened? You make it sound like it was a tragedy of epic, life-changing proportions.  

 

Some people have tender feelers.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

I really hope you are right HerrMurf.

 

 

The best way to improve the state of MP is to get on yourself, and bring your friends.  If that doesn't sound good to you, or flight sims no longer hold your interest, then there are other ways to spend your free time. I don't see the trouble here.

 

 

Reeling? Good grief, get a grip already. How many years has it been since all that with CloD happened? You make it sound like it was a tragedy of epic, life-changing proportions.  

 

 

It really is bizarre.

[BlitzPig_EL]

The failure of Cliffs of Dover has caused more people to give up the genre than you realize.

 

If any one thing can be pointed at as the beginning of the end of the genre, it's that.

 

Sticking your heads in the sand won't change the fact of it either gents.

 

The fact that we have three sims (sort of, if DCS can ever do something) now for WW2 air combat, and the the fans of the genre are spread between all of them (not to mention the people still playing the original) means that none can achieve the critical mass necessary for true financial success on the order of the original IL2.

 

The genre needs a clear winner that will crush all the others, like IL2 did in it's day to that garbage that Microsoft was selling, thereby uniting all the disparate groups of players under one roof.

[Beazil]

Hey, I LOVED Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe. It's what got me into flight sims in the first place. I might have to go see if I can find an emulator site now!

 

Guilty as well.  The 1992 version, not that abortion they released mid 2000's.

 

So, am I the only one who uses cruise settings when flying - and saves the combat power for combat - and even then sparingly - and i almost never use emergency, buy I've been experimenting more by allowing more judicial use in the last few days without any engine failure - short of those caused by bullets, that is.

 

Lol, am I doing it wrong?

[BraveSirRobin]

The failure of Cliffs of Dover has caused more people to give up the genre than you realize.

 

If true (which I doubt), that is really embarrassing for them.

[ACG_Invictus]

The failure of Cliffs of Dover has caused more people to give up the genre than you realize.

 

If any one thing can be pointed at as the beginning of the end of the genre, it's that.

 

Sticking your heads in the sand won't change the fact of it either gents.

 

The fact that we have three sims (sort of, if DCS can ever do something) now for WW2 air combat, and the the fans of the genre are spread between all of them (not to mention the people still playing the original) means that none can achieve the critical mass necessary for true financial success on the order of the original IL2.

 

The genre needs a clear winner that will crush all the others, like IL2 did in it's day to that garbage that Microsoft was selling, thereby uniting all the disparate groups of players under one roof.

Then they quit too soon....assuming you are right, which I doubt. There are other factors at play which you don't or choose not to mention. And I'll take choice over being forced down a single path everytime....

[II./JG77_Manu*]

The fact that we have three sims (sort of, if DCS can ever do something) now for WW2 air combat, and the the fans of the genre are spread between all of them (not to mention the people still playing the original) means that none can achieve the critical mass necessary for true financial success on the order of the original IL2.

 

Since when are you forced to only play one Sim? I hear the same crap in racing simulators and space simulators. Is there any rule that prevents you from buying more then one simulator? I guess no. Some people have really weird boundaries in their head.

 

Competition between Sims is a good thing. It leads to developers having to put in more effort and suit the customers to not get left behind the competition. If there is a monopoly the devs can do what they want, because people have no choice but to buy that one product, if they are into the genre.

 

Cliffs, DCS and BoX all have their strengths and weaknesses in different departments. They all have their unique selling points. Of course it would be better if there would be one sim incorporating all those strengths..but don't think for a second that this would happen if there would only be one out there. 

 

Most people have more then one, if not all Sims in their genre, financial-wise it makes no difference. We are not talking about toothpaste here. Sims are no hostile competitors, they are companies next to each other hoping that everyone fares well..1C clearly sees it the same way, otherwise they would not have partnered with TF(S).

Edited January 3, 2017 by II./JG77_Manu*

[curiousGamblerr]

The failure of Cliffs of Dover has caused more people to give up the genre than you realize.

 

If any one thing can be pointed at as the beginning of the end of the genre, it's that.

 

-snip-

More doom and gloom from you... Plenty of us are having a grand old time playing the game with each other. I've literally never seen you online, yet you're always here talking about the impending Sturmapocalypse. I don't mean to get personal, I just find myself disagreeing with you almost every day and feel like you aren't even giving it a fair shake because it's not perfectly to your liking. Negativity like that in these forums has surely turned people away as well. Reminds me of the dude who wouldn't buy BoM because he heard about some issue with the Mig tailwheel...

Edited January 4, 2017 by 19.GIAP//curiousGamblerr

[simplyjames]

 

 

Reminds me of the dude who wouldn't buy BoM because he heard about some issue with the Mig tailwheel...

 

There's an issue with the mig tailwheel? Time to uninstall. 

[Sgt_Joch]

So, am I the only one who uses cruise settings when flying - and saves the combat power for combat - and even then sparingly - and i almost never use emergency, buy I've been experimenting more by allowing more judicial use in the last few days without any engine failure - short of those caused by bullets, that is.

 

 

nope, same here too. I strive to cruise at "continuous" and keep my engine as cool as possible, especially when flying a Soviet fighter,( it does not seem to be an issue with 109s which never overheat ), I only use combat setting as required and max only for a few seconds at a time.

 

p.s. - never played SWOL, the game that hooked me was Falcon 4.

 

I own many DCS planes, Cliffs, all versions of IL2 since the original. I play BoX since it is the most immersive combat flight sim currently on the market.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Sgt_Joch

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

Why not own all these sims and just play each to it's strengths and weaknesses? Why not enjoy what we have instead of being salty about "getting the orange ball rather than the green one" so to speak? And finally, why the hell are we discussing different sims strengths and weaknesses in a thread about the Bf 109G-4? The more I read this thread I can hear the screeching steel wheels of catastrophic derailment. I was enjoying reading about the ups the downs of the G-4.

 

If the genre is dying or not, who cares, each and every post in this thread was made by someone who is still hanging around. Get over it.

 

Now, can we have more discussion of the G-4 please?

[Boaty-McBoatface]

Now, can we have more discussion of the G-4 please?

Hear, hear.

 

Also this bloke BlitzPig_EL needs to pull his head in with the constant doom and gloom. It beggars belief how vocal he is on the bloody forums and yet he's never seen in game!

 

It's these kind of vocal complainers that steered me clear of this tremendous sim for so long. Good riddance!

Edited January 4, 2017 by B0SS

[ShamrockOneFive]

Now, can we have more discussion of the G-4 please?

 

Agreed!

 

Though I don't think there is much more to say about the Bf109G-4. In many ways its arrival is anticlimatic... and I expected that too. The G-4 is an evolution of the earlier G-2 and it comes with good sides and down sides. Pragmatically, I think lots of people will fly it and the Bf109G-2 in Kuban scenarios. Both will be historical choices, both will be excellent fighters and highly competitive against the opposition. The advantage for Bf109 specialists is that they get to keep flying the same excellent plane... for VVS pilots its going to be an interesting challenge.

 

They will be up against a lot of folks who really know the Bf109 really well - Versus a smattering of fighters: Yak-1 Series 69, Yak-1B Series 127, LaGG-3 Series 29, La-5 Series 8, P-39L-1, and the Spitfire Vb. A Kuban scenario could even include the odd MiG-3. The diversity will be exciting but its certainly more of a challenge to be proficient on so many types. And... the Bf109G-4 is still probably superior to all of them in some appreciable ways though certainly it has attributes that can be exploited by each.

[curiousGamblerr]

I'm all for getting back to the G-4, my apologies for my part in the derailment.

 

So the G-4 is marginally slower in continuous and combat, with the plus of some emergency. I've only flown it a few times, but I'll say I got my butt kicked. Like many historical LW pilots, I will continue to prefer to F varieties. At least you stand a chance when it comes down to a dogfight.

 

That said, I think I need to be more risky with the emergency power. Others have reported 5 minutes of low-end emergency, and that's a heck of a lot of time in combat. I think I need to practice running at e.g. 1.35 ata and get a better feel for the emergency limits before I can be effective.

 

Also, I think the Yal-1b is a game changer for the VVS and a force to be reckoned with. I definitely need to try some G-4 v 1b quick missions.

[Original_Uwe]

G4 vs 1b quick missions are pretty easy.

Merge, pull up and spiral climb, wait for following yak to stall, dive on enemy, maintain energy advantage, kill yak.

I'm thinking the online players will use it better, I've heard it climbs with the 109 online?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The G4 is still better than the 1b in most respects. That said, the gap has closed and you need to fly her closer to a 190. Enter fights with an E advantage and fly efficiently to maintain it. If you are Co-E or worse you have a fight on your hands and will have to work hard to gain the upper hand. I think this will be even more true if/when we eventually see a G6 over Kuban. I fly to RPM as much as ATA. You can use 2600 RPM in the G4 all day like you can in the G2 but have the WEP to rely on for short sprints or dashes.

[Danziger]

I finally had a chance to take up the G4 and Ju-52 this morning. I really like them both. The G4 is not so different than G2 for me. The landing is more forgiving. The Ju-52 is a whole new experience in this series.

[LukeFF]

The failure of Cliffs of Dover has caused more people to give up the genre than you realize.

 

If any one thing can be pointed at as the beginning of the end of the genre, it's that.

 

Sticking your heads in the sand won't change the fact of it either gents.

 

The fact that we have three sims (sort of, if DCS can ever do something) now for WW2 air combat, and the the fans of the genre are spread between all of them (not to mention the people still playing the original) means that none can achieve the critical mass necessary for true financial success on the order of the original IL2.

 

The genre needs a clear winner that will crush all the others, like IL2 did in it's day to that garbage that Microsoft was selling, thereby uniting all the disparate groups of players under one roof.

 

More pessimism that doesn't do any one any good.

[Asgar]

i love how people always talk about players being split or spread between different sims ...i play BoX, i play DCS, i play 1946 (the campaigns are so much fun) we're talking flight sims, not Highlander, there can be more than one and you can (and are allowed as far as i am aware) to play to play more than one 

Edited January 5, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

The genre needs a clear winner that will crush all the others,

 

-snip-

 

Than stop with the sobbing like you're some kind of impotent teenager and get behind this team and their product.

[Lusekofte]

So the G-4 is marginally slower in continuous and combat, with the plus of some emergency. I've only flown it a few times, but I'll say I got my butt kicked. Like many historical LW pilots, I will continue to prefer to F varieties. At least you stand a chance when it comes down to a dogfight.

 

Well the German pilots had no way to make this choice , they flew with the toy they got. G4 was a attempt to make it more suitable to field airbases in Russia, and keep the performance. Bulb in the wing did not help. We do not experience any need for better undercarriage the way this simulator behave.It should however contain attributes that exceed Russian planes. However, Luftwaffe pilots had noticed there was a much more dangerous opponents before Kuban, but during Kuban Campaign they almost , if not got their arses handed to them. No longer was the Luftwaffe capable to maintain air supremacy , Russian planes was better and pilots was better.

So I do not understand this topic.

Most people want historical things in this sim, and by the sound of it that is what you have received. My impression is that not one plane has been welcomed in Luftwaffe, there is always something wrong. And if by chance Russian side receive something it is wrong too from a axis side point of view. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[ShamrockOneFive]

Well the German pilots had no way to make this choice , they flew with the toy they got. G4 was a attempt to make it more suitable to field airbases in Russia, and keep the performance. Bulb in the wing did not help. We do not experience any need for better undercarriage the way this simulator behave.It should however contain attributes that exceed Russian planes. However, Luftwaffe pilots had noticed there was a much more dangerous opponents before Kuban, but during Kuban Campaign they almost , if not got their arses handed to them. No longer was the Luftwaffe capable to maintain air supremacy , Russian planes was better and pilots was better.

So I do not understand this topic.

Most people want historical things in this sim, and by the sound of it that is what you have received. My impression is that not one plane has been welcomed in Luftwaffe, there is always something wrong. And if by chance Russian side receive something it is wrong too from a axis side point of view. 

 

Kuban was when the air battle tide truly began to turn against the Luftwaffe. There was a closer parity in numbers, skill and the performance of available types than at any time previously. The VVS by this point had fully adopted the "Finger Four" style formation that the Luftwaffe had been using for years and their tactics had become more open and flexible too.

 

We'll only truly experience the differences in aircraft. Our pilot skills are all across the board and fairly evenly distributed and our tactics range from highly sophisticated to lone wolf.

[curiousGamblerr]

Well the German pilots had no way to make this choice , they flew with the toy they got. G4 was a attempt to make it more suitable to field airbases in Russia, and keep the performance. Bulb in the wing did not help. We do not experience any need for better undercarriage the way this simulator behave.It should however contain attributes that exceed Russian planes. However, Luftwaffe pilots had noticed there was a much more dangerous opponents before Kuban, but during Kuban Campaign they almost , if not got their arses handed to them. No longer was the Luftwaffe capable to maintain air supremacy , Russian planes was better and pilots was better.

So I do not understand this topic.

Most people want historical things in this sim, and by the sound of it that is what you have received. My impression is that not one plane has been welcomed in Luftwaffe, there is always something wrong. And if by chance Russian side receive something it is wrong too from a axis side point of view. 

 

Woah woah woah, hold your horses Luse. Just because I said I like the F varieties more does not mean I'm complaining that we've gotten a historically correct version for Kuban. And my reference to historical pilots was referring to many pilots saying "I wish I still had my Friedrich" not to imply they actually had a choice. I'm glad that since this is a game, I do have a choice on many servers 

 

Just wanted to clarify that I my post wasn't Luftwhining (which would be especially funny since I'm part of a VVS squadron...)

 

Also I'm not sure about not needing improved ground handling in this sim. We all like to say the 109s are easy to take off and land, but for new players, controlling that torque is much more of a challenge. And this follows historically. I've seen many people here posit that the high historical accident rate was a result of less training and increased engine power as the war went on. I wonder if the improved gear on the G-4 is making a difference for new players like it would for new pilots?

[Lusekofte]

 

 

Woah woah woah, hold your horses Luse.

 

I did not mean anything critique, I just added something in the end not related to you . I have seen so much ingratitude, and people (again not you ) referring to historical data and point to get their plane set better. I have not bothered trying the G4, but I have seen description about it here. And most of it seems to be very historical performances. It was a improvement for the pilots getting better undercarriage . Speed and manoeuvrability suffered, due to this and added weaponry.

I am sorry, I do this all the time, start with a quote and derail. Must be my age 

[Asgar]

what added weaponry? i wish

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

what added weaponry? i wish

 

I think he was just Luftwhiner-whining.

[curiousGamblerr]

I did not mean anything critique, I just added something in the end not related to you . I have seen so much ingratitude, and people (again not you ) referring to historical data and point to get their plane set better. I have not bothered trying the G4, but I have seen description about it here. And most of it seems to be very historical performances. It was a improvement for the pilots getting better undercarriage . Speed and manoeuvrability suffered, due to this and added weaponry.

I am sorry, I do this all the time, start with a quote and derail. Must be my age 

 

No worries, it was my mistake 

 

I think HerrMurph is right about flying like a 190. Really, that's good advice in all the 109s besides the E.

[Trinkof]

Well the German pilots had no way to make this choice , they flew with the toy they got. G4 was a attempt to make it more suitable to field airbases in Russia, and keep the performance. Bulb in the wing did not help. We do not experience any need for better undercarriage the way this simulator behave.It should however contain attributes that exceed Russian planes. However, Luftwaffe pilots had noticed there was a much more dangerous opponents before Kuban, but during Kuban Campaign they almost , if not got their arses handed to them. No longer was the Luftwaffe capable to maintain air supremacy , Russian planes was better and pilots was better.

So I do not understand this topic.

Most people want historical things in this sim, and by the sound of it that is what you have received. My impression is that not one plane has been welcomed in Luftwaffe, there is always something wrong. And if by chance Russian side receive something it is wrong too from a axis side point of view.

Losses for kuban air battle : 2800 russian plane .... 800 german ...

 

So no they did not had ther but kicked at all. Some german group (jg3 I think, but I miss reference if someone have them) had a 11/1 kill/loss ratio ...

 

Kuban is just the first air battle were VVS managed to gain air superiority SOME DAYS... While not relying on meteo events as in stalingrad...

 

Regarding the results on the ground and the losses in the air ... I still struggle to understand how any decent commander would call it a VVS victory... Apart for political and propaganda reasons.

 

Note that I am not denying VVS achieved a lot during Kuban... And still survived the largest air battle of ww2 (and probably largest air battle ever which a lot of people ignore) while still being capable of being offensive.

Edited January 6, 2017 by LAL_Trinkof

[Lusekofte]

 

 

I think he was just Luftwhiner-whining.

You wish, but I was not. My post is simply a question on why people are not satisfied with the G4?

Added weaponry like in RL was occasionally added in a general futuristic setting rig wing pods. And yes I think there is a lot of whining and dissatisfaction for equipment that is far better than the russian side. But that was absolutely not what this post was about, so please stop intrepid my posts , you constantly do that in worst thinkable way, and way too serious manner. 

You read contradictions obvious as daylight but not once consider that it was meant as a joke. Your ability to see stupidity exceed your ability to spot humour. 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

You wish, but I was not. My post is simply a question on why people are not satisfied with the G4?

Added weaponry like in RL was occasionally added in a general futuristic setting rig wing pods. And yes I think there is a lot of whining and dissatisfaction for equipment that is far better than the russian side. But that was absolutely not what this post was about, so please stop intrepid my posts , you constantly do that in worst thinkable way, and way too serious manner. 

You read contradictions obvious as daylight but not once consider that it was meant as a joke. Your ability to see stupidity exceed your ability to spot humour. 

 

I don't know what you're talking about (again) but I don't believe I missed any humor in your previous posts, nor that I misinterpreted what you wrote.

 

But, OK than. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Back to the G-4. In some ways I would rather see the Power Release as a RPM release, similar to the 109E's 2600RPM release. What I mean by that is that the Critical altitude for running 1.3 ata increases by about 1500m, so in general it's a High Altitude Improvement. 

 

However, since the Overall Weight is the same as the G-2 Climb Rate at 1.3 ata doesn't suffer and you will get a good Boost in Climb and Speed using 2700RPM (ca. 1.35ata) over the G-2. 

And my Placebo Brain tells me that the G-4 also taxies a lot nicer. 

 

The G-2 was already quite heavy for it's Landing Gear, and the Modifications were a late fix for all Gustavs. 

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Back to the G-4. In some ways I would rather see the Power Release as a RPM release, similar to the 109E's 2600RPM release. What I mean by that is that the Critical altitude for running 1.3 ata increases by about 1500m, so in general it's a High Altitude Improvement. 

 

However, since the Overall Weight is the same as the G-2 Climb Rate at 1.3 ata doesn't suffer and you will get a good Boost in Climb and Speed using 2700RPM (ca. 1.35ata) over the G-2. 

And my Placebo Brain tells me that the G-4 also taxies a lot nicer. 

 

The G-2 was already quite heavy for it's Landing Gear, and the Modifications were a late fix for all Gustavs. 

 

The best technical officer on any squad around. 

 

We should pay him a salary. 

Edited January 6, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Gielow