Anxiously awaiting the Spitfire in IL.2 BoK...

[Guest deleted@50488]

Really looking forward to get it on my hands and feet :-) with the same feel of realism all other IL.2 aircraft provide :-)

 

There's really something very special about this sim!

 

[Finkeren]

I look forward to it alright.

 

My feelings towards the Spitfire have always been mixed. I tend to scorn aircraft that I feel are over-hyped such as the P-51, Spitfire, Fw 190 and A6M.

 

Still, I can't say I'm not excited about seeing this legend in BoK.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Fly the 1b and get 95% of the experience right now

[Finkeren]

Fly the 1b and get 95% of the experience right now

 

Kinda-sorta...

 

The Spit will have far better high altitude performance (and probably worse at low altitude). It will roll slower and climb faster.

 

Also the Spit will likely have fairly strict limits on the engine, and then ofc there's the armament. With just 60 rounds per gun for the wing mounted cannons and 300 rounds for the super-fast firing Brownings, it's probably gonna feel a bit under-gunned, despite nominally having more firepower.

[eRoN]

Really looking forward to get it on my hands and feet :-) with the same feel of realism all other IL.2 aircraft provide :-)

 

There's really something very special about this sim!

 

DCS just released their spit the other day (early access i think). It's the mark 9 w/ merlin 66 too so fuel injection! Contemplating myself on getting it...

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Kinda-sorta...

 

The Spit will have far better high altitude performance (and probably worse at low altitude). It will roll slower and climb faster.

 

Also the Spit will likely have fairly strict limits on the engine, and then ofc there's the armament. With just 60 rounds per gun for the wing mounted cannons and 300 rounds for the super-fast firing Brownings, it's probably gonna feel a bit under-gunned, despite nominally having more firepower.

VERY tongue in cheek.....

[Finkeren]

VERY tongue in cheek.....

I got that. But it wasn't entirely wrong either.

[DD_Arthur]

DCS just released their spit the other day (early access i think). It's the mark 9 w/ merlin 66 too so fuel injection! Contemplating myself on getting it...

 

Fuel injection?  I don't think so.

[Yakdriver]

Mixed feelings here

cannons yay. shotgun pellets meh.

And all very very far from the line of sight.

Flying her i look forward to, fighting in her... hell nah!

[eRoN]

Fuel injection?  I don't think so.

 

Not true like the DB engines, but it had a Bendix-Stromberg pressure carb that injected @ 5psi directly into supercharger, that alleviated the negative g problems afaik.

[DD_Arthur]

Not true like the DB engines, but it had a Bendix-Stromberg pressure carb that injected @ 5psi directly into supercharger, that alleviated the negative g problems afaik.

 

 

We'll be getting "the orifice" in our version of the mk. v. - in about six months.

[Boomerang]

Really looking forward to get it on my hands and feet :-) with the same feel of realism all other IL.2 aircraft provide :-)

 

There's really something very special about this sim!

 

Looking forward to the "Spitty" here also, more the merrier.   

[Cybermat47]

Spitfires, 109s, Ju-87s, and P-40s are, or will be, in DCS, CloD, and IL-2 sooner or later.

 

As Boomerang says, the more the merrier!

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

I'm looking forward to the Spit in this as well but in the meantime I've been flying the new one in DCS and other than being a bitch to takeoff and land she's an absolute beauty in the air, easily the most enjoyable aircraft I've flown in DCS. It'll be interesting to see how the BoK version stacks up!

[Guest deleted@50488]

DCS just released their spit the other day (early access i think). It's the mark 9 w/ merlin 66 too so fuel injection! Contemplating myself on getting it...

 

Yes, I got it... hence my OP...

 

There's always something "more special" about IL.2, I still can't think differently - IL.2 gives me a UNIQUE sensation, even if it has it's quirks...

Edited December 18, 2016 by jcomm

[ShamrockOneFive]

Yes, I got it... hence my OP...

 

There's always something "more special" about IL.2, I still can't think differently - IL.2 gives me a UNIQUE sensation, even if it has it's quirks...

There is something unique to the feeling of flight and the immersiveness that IL-2 brings to the table. DCS is excellent but it's missing a certain something...

 

Either way. It's great that we have Spitfires returning to the lime light a little. Easily one of my favourite aircraft of all time.

[Cybermat47]

DCS is excellent but it's missing a certain something...

A map.

[Gambit21]

A map.

...and a campaign...oh and the rest of the required aircraft...and vehicles...and interface...

[BlitzPig_EL]

I look forward to the Spitfire with trepidation.

 

I fear it will suffer the same fate as the P40 in this sim.

 

Like the P40, the VVS didn't like the Spitfire, and we all know how that worked out for the P40 here.

[ShamrockOneFive]

That's true and my expectations are somewhat low for this aircraft from a overall competitive standpoint. The Mark V without the boost levels used by the RAF in 1943 would be more like a 1941 Spitfire in performance - one that had some challenges with the 109Fs and had real troubles with the FW190s.

 

It will have agility and firepower (for a short duration) unless they get the Hispano cannons wrong...

[simplyjames]

...and a campaign...oh and the rest of the required aircraft...and vehicles...and interface...

Can I add a damage model?

[Wulf]

I look forward to the Spitfire with trepidation.

 

I fear it will suffer the same fate as the P40 in this sim.

 

Like the P40, the VVS didn't like the Spitfire, and we all know how that worked out for the P40 here.

 

 

Well I guess anything's possible (because the game is whatever the devs make it) but the Mk Vb (if that's what we're getting) should be a better machine than a Yak 1.  About the same weight and more HP.

 

The Spits the Soviets received were by all accounts pretty clapped-out and secondhand, however, as we know, the actual condition (state/build quality) of the aircraft isn't modeled in the sim.  The devs just use the standard specs for the aircraft so we should be getting what amounts to brand new Spitfires with Merlins in the range of 1480-1580 HP. 

 

I think they'll be pretty good.

[Finkeren]

Well I guess anything's possible (because the game is whatever the devs make it) but the Mk Vb (if that's what we're getting) should be a better machine than a Yak 1. About the same weight and more HP.

 

The Spits the Soviets received were by all accounts pretty clapped-out and secondhand, however, as we know, the actual condition (state/build quality) of the aircraft isn't modeled in the sim. The devs just use the standard specs for the aircraft so we should be getting what amounts to brand new Spitfires with Merlins in the range of 1480-1580 HP.

 

I think they'll be pretty good.

1440hp take off power should be about right. I very much doubt, that the Spits supplied to the USSR had Merlin 45Ms.

 

But you're absolutely right, that they will likely be modeled as factory fresh examples, as they should be considering that the sim doesn't take into account wear and tear or low production quality in any other area.

 

The real kicker for Spit performance is gonna be the engine limitations.

[HBPencil]

The Vb's supplied to the USSR were powered mostly by the Merlin 46 with a reasonable proportion of Merlin 45 as well. The Merlin 46 had a full throttle height of 22,500ft so if one spends a lot of time at lower altitudes the Spit won't be giving its best.
I'm looking forward to flying it as I'm hoping it'll be a pleasure to fly rather than having any expectation of it being particularly competitive. Although 60rpg for the cannon is a bummer I'm not bothered by having wing mounted guns... in fact there are times I prefer it!

[Lusekofte]

 

 

DCS just released their spit the other day (early access i think). It's the mark 9 w/ merlin 66 too so fuel injection! Contemplating myself on getting it...

 

It would be nice having it in Nevada map flying over Las Vegas, that make sense to me, It give a good vibe flying it

[fjacobsen]

While DCS has it´s strongpoints in systems simulation, FM is about equal to IL-2 BOS/BOM, but damage modeling is lagging very far behind.

 

I wonder about why DCS selected the WW2 aircraft they did.

 

The P-51D has limited power compared to those used in WW2, while the Spitfire mk IX would be better suited against the FW-190 A3 or Bf-109 F2-G6.

Both German fighters are rare very late war "Super" fighters.

 

In Il-2 BOS/BOM the available aircraft are much better paired against each other (I'm not going to start a über Luftwaffe / VVS discussion, cause I don´t feel either exist)

[ShamrockOneFive]

1440hp take off power should be about right. I very much doubt, that the Spits supplied to the USSR had Merlin 45Ms.

 

But you're absolutely right, that they will likely be modeled as factory fresh examples, as they should be considering that the sim doesn't take into account wear and tear or low production quality in any other area.

 

The real kicker for Spit performance is gonna be the engine limitations.

 

They had mostly Merlin 46s but a few were Merlin 45s. So if they model a majority type then it will come with the Merlin 46... if they somehow do both then we'll be in for more interesting times

While DCS has it´s strongpoints in systems simulation, FM is about equal to IL-2 BOS/BOM, but damage modeling is lagging very far behind.

 

I wonder about why DCS selected the WW2 aircraft they did.

 

The P-51D has limited power compared to those used in WW2, while the Spitfire mk IX would be better suited against the FW-190 A3 or Bf-109 F2-G6.

Both German fighters are rare very late war "Super" fighters.

 

In Il-2 BOS/BOM the available aircraft are much better paired against each other (I'm not going to start a über Luftwaffe / VVS discussion, cause I don´t feel either exist)

 

IMHO, if they had any focus like 1CGS does, they would have done the Normandy map and picked aircraft that were useful in that scenario. That is a thing I really appreciate about the work that 1CGS does... they pick a scenario and I have extreme trouble faulting their aircraft picks because they fit the scenarios so closely. There are some debates about Collector Planes, however, for BoK even the Collector Planes fit extremely well.

[LukeFF]

however, as we know, the actual condition (state/build quality) of the aircraft isn't modeled in the sim.  The devs just use the standard specs for the aircraft so we should be getting what amounts to brand new Spitfires with Merlins in the range of 1480-1580 HP.

 

Eh, no, that's not quite right.

 

as about serial production differences - we use official German data for German airplanes, and official Russian tests of serial production airplanes (mostly NII VVS) for Russian airplanes.

Edited December 19, 2016 by LukeFF

[Dakpilot]

 

 

 

 while the Spitfire mk IX would be better suited against the FW-190 A3 or Bf-109 F2-G6.

 

Both German fighters are rare very late war "Super" fighters.

 

 

 

 

Dcs Spit Mk IX seems to be reasonable match against German late war "superfighters" if flown to is strengths....or maybe it needs some 'sorting' being beta and very fresh release

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[ElPerk]

DCS is what you get when you mix:

- a crash and burn kickstarter campaign

- complete change of project management and ownership

- focus on systems and details

- incentive to release every module that is sufficiently detailed and ready

This leads to a very peculiar product where highly detailed and superbly modelled planes fly above nonsensible area, only taking off for the thrill of the fight. So it's Valhalla, but instead of mead with the mighty warriors it's cheap lager in your basement and then trash-talking those other warriors in game chat.

The planes are so wonderful! Nothing else makes any sort of sense unless you look at history!

Edited December 19, 2016 by ElPerk

[BlitzPig_EL]

Hmm... moved to the Free Subject forum.

 

Odd that, as we are discussing a future addition to the sim, regardless of the DCS derail.

[Guest deleted@30725]

It's going to be worse when the il2 spit comes out. Even more il2 spit vs dcs spit geek outs and graphs in pointless nerd battles as if one game has to be better than the other.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Just wait for the Mustang boys to rampage through your forums some day!

[Sokol1]

DCS - focus on systems and details

 

As one with care with systems and details, I can say that their "focus" is not too precise as maybe looks.

[MiloMorai]

Dcs Spit Mk IX seems to be reasonable match against German late war "superfighters" if flown to is strengths....or maybe it needs some 'sorting' being beta and very fresh release

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Spitfire IXs of 401 Squadron RCAF shot down one of the first, if not the first, Me262s claimed.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

As one with care with systems and details, I can say that their "focus" is not too precise as maybe looks.

Yeah, I just went through a topic about MiG-21 pylon selector and how badly it is coded. 

 

Then someone says something about "super reality bit*hing" and someone else says its all fine that its simplified (aka wrong). But then you tell 'em about other sims and suddenly its all about every tiny detail. 

 

Also, I'm not all that certain we will see DCS vs BoS. Spitfire Vb is not exactly the same as Spitfire IX. 

[Lusekofte]

 

 

Just wait for the Mustang boys to rampage through your forums some day!

 

HA ha , have mercy with us, this is the only reason I hope there never will be a mustang on this game :D  

[Lusekofte]

 

 

hen someone says something about "super reality bit*hing"

 

Remember a lot of the guys in DCS comes straight from WT and have no idea of reality. I see it in here too. Hard takeoff and landing is in someones eye equal with reality. Having a iron grip warthog is reality, when the truth is most are made of plastic and composite. 

They also claim clickable pits is reality. It is not, but it helps in terms of not having to do all those keybindings and remember them. 

It also helps if you want to make a simulator pit. But reality got nothing to do with most things in DCS.

But it is the best out there in systems and complex simulated modern aircraft, the idea is good, it is just the bugs in every module that keep coming after all patching, never ending story

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

They also claim clickable pits is reality. It is not, but it helps in terms of not having to do all those keybindings and remember them. 

Reality or not (irrelevant to me tbh) 99 % of people have clickable switches and buttons and what have you binded to HOTAS anyway. Why ? Because in hot dogfight in MiG-21 I cant be bothered to look up on control panel, move mouse, switch Radar to IR missiles, switch pylons and all the other stuff while at the same time keeping eye on enemy and on my radar. Workload on MiG-21 is IMO huge so it doesnt help that LN coded pylon switch completely wrong. But even with P-51 I cant be bothered to look up for fuel tank switch when I'm in combat, aint nobody got time for this !

 

Thing is that systems and the way they are supposed to work or be operated should reflect reality. PARTICULARLY in games like DCS or BoS. If someone calls that "realism bi*ching" or looks for excuses like a certain guy did then maybe he should look for something else. Especially in case of DCS where those modules go for 50+ $ you want them absolutely perfect.  

 

 

 

But it is the best out there in systems and complex simulated modern aircraft, the idea is good, it is just the bugs in every module that keep coming after all patching, never ending story

It's neverending story Luse because company behind it (ED) is messing all the time with engine itself and game code. There is DCS 1.5, there is 2.0 and 2.5 in development. And Developers gotta keep up not only with all the stuff that ED changes but also produce their own modules to keep the revenue. God forbid something gets broken due to ED messing and then they got to return and fix it. LN still cant fix plenty of bugs with subsystems like gunpods.  

 

 

 

HA ha , have mercy with us, this is the only reason I hope there never will be a mustang on this game :D  

I dont see any problem with P-51. Wouldnt be any different from 109/190/Yak complains we got since the early days of the BoS. It's not an issue attached to any particular machine but to certain type of people.  

[CisTer-dB-]

DCS just released their spit the other day (early access i think). It's the mark 9 w/ merlin 66 too so fuel injection! Contemplating myself on getting it...

Go for it. I've been fortunate to have the chance to fly a MkIX and what DCS did with the FM are very good, I am impress and it's an early release unfinished product.

It fly like the real thing. If you are looking to know how it is to fly a real MK IX that's the closer you gonna get. If you are looking for the the bling bling or the immersion then you better wait for the Normandie map to see.

Edited December 30, 2016 by ATAG_dB