Why do I have to "End Mission" every time?

[ACG_pezman]

Haha, my infamous thread is back from the dead.

 

Well, let me add some to it since I made it:

 

In missions with restricted aircraft I have lost, after returning to base and landing, my FW and Yak-1B MANY times because noobs destroy theirs and I didn't, but I have to land and end mission so I can refuel/rearm.  Guess what.  In the few seconds that I am frantically clicking start to get my aircraft back, some newb just looked at the airfield, noticed one Yak-1B or FW-190, squealed with excitement, and spawned in with it.  All I get is a stupid "Airfield Conditions have Changed" message.

 

Also the point that I don't always feel like flying across the map to my home airfield so I can re-spawn with the same aircraft.  As far as I knew, if you took off from airfield A with a Yak-1b, and land at Airfield B that doesn't have Yak-1B's, then you lose your aircraft.  Even if you land perfectly, it's gone.  Could be wrong though, never tested the theory for fear of losing an aircraft.

 

And I for one can't land and immediately take off again, I have to take a little break and get some food or a drink, maybe a cig.  So a 5-15 minute refuel/rearm period would be nice.  I could get up, stretch the legs, grab a drink, take a piss, puff a cig, etc... sit down and startup.

 

Maybe some sort of metric that says "dude, your aircraft is messed up, you ain't repairing this... it's a loss.  But GJ on bringing it back home!"

[Finnsky]

Haha, my infamous thread is back from the dead.

 

Well, let me add some to it since I made it:

 

In missions with restricted aircraft I have lost, after returning to base and landing, my FW and Yak-1B MANY times because noobs destroy theirs and I didn't, but I have to land and end mission so I can refuel/rearm. Guess what. In the few seconds that I am frantically clicking start to get my aircraft back, some newb just looked at the airfield, noticed one Yak-1B or FW-190, squealed with excitement, and spawned in with it. All I get is a stupid "Airfield Conditions have Changed" message.

 

Also the point that I don't always feel like flying across the map to my home airfield so I can re-spawn with the same aircraft. As far as I knew, if you took off from airfield A with a Yak-1b, and land at Airfield B that doesn't have Yak-1B's, then you lose your aircraft. Even if you land perfectly, it's gone. Could be wrong though, never tested the theory for fear of losing an aircraft.

 

And I for one can't land and immediately take off again, I have to take a little break and get some food or a drink, maybe a cig. So a 5-15 minute refuel/rearm period would be nice. I could get up, stretch the legs, grab a drink, take a piss, puff a cig, etc... sit down and startup.

 

Maybe some sort of metric that says "dude, your aircraft is messed up, you ain't repairing this... it's a loss. But GJ on bringing it back home!"

This is exactly how I am feeling and the reason I brought this topic back. It just feels dumb that I land at af A, have to end the mission and teleport back to af B which is 100km away. I would love to land my 190/yab1b/whatever at af A, wait for however long refueling takes (refueling in dcs takes about 5 minutes & I didn't see anybody there complaining that this is unrealistic), smoke a cig/ take a leak/ drink something and be back in the air without flying 100 km back to the front

[Scojo]

Doesn't WoL and other servers add the plane back to the pool if you land successfully at the airfield you took off from?

 

If this is the case, then the mission designers could just add all planes to every airfield but set the number to zero for airfields that don't "have that aircraft". That way if someone lands at an airfield without say Yak-1bs in a Yak-1b, it adds to the pool of Yak-1bs taking it up to 1, then you can spawn back in with that plane dropping the pool back to 0.

 

Can someone who has designed MP missions tell me if I'm right or wrong on this?

[ACG_pezman]

Doesn't WoL and other servers add the plane back to the pool if you land successfully at the airfield you took off from?

 

If this is the case, then the mission designers could just add all planes to every airfield but set the number to zero for airfields that don't "have that aircraft". That way if someone lands at an airfield without say Yak-1bs in a Yak-1b, it adds to the pool of Yak-1bs taking it up to 1, then you can spawn back in with that plane dropping the pool back to 0.

 

Can someone who has designed MP missions tell me if I'm right or wrong on this?

 

Actually, I think your right about that.  However, while this would be a sufficient stop-gap measure, it still doesn't protect against losing your aircraft.  That is possibly the most frustrating part for me.  Yak-1B's and FW-190's (then the 109's and La-5's) are the hot-item aircraft for each team.  So when a map rotates in that has these aircraft, everyone and their mother's take one.  So sure, on the first sortie you will have no problem getting your aircraft. 

 

Now, lets say you do it all right.  Orbit up to a safe altitude, head to the front, ess turn and check your six every few seconds, etc... Let's say you survive for about 1.5hrs and have to refuel and rearm, but all the newb pilots have already trashed their aircraft, re-spawned, and taken more just to trash them as well.  You have the last Yak/FW and land, there is no guarantee that you will keep your aircraft.  Newb-A will see that, where there were previously zero aircraft, there is now one... just enough for him.

 

It's happened to me so many times now.  It's really the main reason why I want this feature.

 

However, I believe this game (sim) is possibly the finest product in the niche right now, so lack of this feature (while being mildly discomforting) is not a game killer by any stretch.  It's more of a "wouldn't it be nice" kind of feature.

[Scojo]

Actually, I think your right about that.  However, while this would be a sufficient stop-gap measure, it still doesn't protect against losing your aircraft.  That is possibly the most frustrating part for me.  Yak-1B's and FW-190's (then the 109's and La-5's) are the hot-item aircraft for each team.  So when a map rotates in that has these aircraft, everyone and their mother's take one.  So sure, on the first sortie you will have no problem getting your aircraft. 

 

Now, lets say you do it all right.  Orbit up to a safe altitude, head to the front, ess turn and check your six every few seconds, etc... Let's say you survive for about 1.5hrs and have to refuel and rearm, but all the newb pilots have already trashed their aircraft, re-spawned, and taken more just to trash them as well.  You have the last Yak/FW and land, there is no guarantee that you will keep your aircraft.  Newb-A will see that, where there were previously zero aircraft, there is now one... just enough for him.

 

It's happened to me so many times now.  It's really the main reason why I want this feature.

 

However, I believe this game (sim) is possibly the finest product in the niche right now, so lack of this feature (while being mildly discomforting) is not a game killer by any stretch.  It's more of a "wouldn't it be nice" kind of feature.

I see what you're saying, but consider the context...

 

Your plane setup is saved, so you don't have to spend time doing that. Also, if you land at another base and move the plane count up to 1 from 0 where that plane isn't originally spawned, people will be unlikely to see that and pick the plane before you, who knows that that plane is there, can quickly select it yourself again and hit spawn.

 

It wouldn't eliminate the problem you mention, sure, but it wouldn't be as bad either, I think.

 

That being said, you have convinced me and I support a very basic timed refuel, rearm, repair mechanic. It could be associated with a mission area on the map, much like we already have for "attack area". I don't think it's a must have but you've convinced me it would be a good addition. It should not be forced on players though. They should have the choice between that or just spawning back in.

 

I don't think it should be a fully involved animated thing, though. I think that would be a waste of effort as I (and many others) would only try it once to experience it and then never use it again since my time is valuable and I'd rather spend that time flying instead of being on the ground lol

Edited March 15, 2017 by 71st_AH_Scojo

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I believe R&R is too impractical because of a load of the reasons talked about here. But one thing that needs to be fixed is the game saving a slot for a player once they have landed successfuly. Im sick to death of landing and having my spot on the team taken by someone else

[216th_Jordan]

I don't know if it is unpractical, but seeing how cargo can be unloaded in the Ju-52 leads me to believe this gameplay element can be added also.

[19//Moach]

I get that some people really like the idea, but I still haven't gotten an answer as to exactly what people think it would contribute to gameplay.

 

it would provide a good reason not to dispose of the plane for a quicker turnaround

 

this can be seen to act towards this effect in CloD - combined with how the game publicly broadcasts it when a player has safely landed, it is almost unheard of in CloD that ppl would ditch a plane to get a new one quickly, and this is partly due to the fact that refueling and rearming is possible (in the ATAG server, at least)

 

 

from a game design point of view - the requirement to "end flight" and start over has a negative impact on the "flow of the game" - having to unspawn generates an interruption of the experience, which "breaks the fourth wall" and subconsciously leads to a sense of relative pointlessness

 

 

it is absolutely not a waste of time to provide such a feature - it may not be obvious at this point, but I am confident that if it were implemented, it would have a larger impact than many here have given it credit for - it's a mostly psychological thing

 

 

I would strongly recommend it being added - it's not just a convenience feature - it goes a lot further than that, when put in practice

 

 

 

nevertheless, there's really no need that it be animated and/or depicted in any more detail than just make you sit there a bit (engine stopped, ideally) and reset your loadout after a few minutes - that would kinda be a waste of time indeed - but having this as an option would really add quite more to the game than it seems

Edited March 16, 2017 by 19//Moach

[Scojo]

I would strongly recommend it being added

 

I'd be ok with it getting added. Just have it be a spot you move your plane to and sit in for the same amount of time it would otherwise take you to exit and come back in.

 

Like others have said, it would eliminate the problem of people stealing valuable planes from others who landed such as the FW and Yak-1b.

 

I wouldn't want them to go through the trouble of making it a fully involved and animated ordeal, though. Just a mission area place able on the map with a timer.

 

Mission makers could even mitigate the lack of ground crew and animations by placing airfield objects near the area to give it some "atmosphere" much like is done for refuel and rearm spots in Arma III. They'll usually place a tent, with some lights, a fuel truck, and some barriers around so that it's easily identifiable and also looks like a ground crew station.

I am also fine with them never putting it in as well lol

[JG13_opcode]

A lot of these problems can be fixed in mission design.  If the popular servers didn't excessively limit planes or force you to fly an unarmed transport if you lose 3 planes or whatever the new silliness is, this would be a non-issue.

 

Real air battles rarely if ever had 7 Fw 190s or Yak 1bs.  They either had enough to equip a whole staffel or they didn't have any.  The whole concept is a well intentioned but shortsighted attempt to curb arcade behavior that only serves to frustrate.

[Scojo]

A lot of these problems can be fixed in mission design.  If the popular servers didn't excessively limit planes or force you to fly an unarmed transport if you lose 3 planes or whatever the new silliness is, this would be a non-issue.

 

Real air battles rarely if ever had 7 Fw 190s or Yak 1bs.  They either had enough to equip a whole staffel or they didn't have any.  The whole concept is a well intentioned but shortsighted attempt to curb arcade behavior that only serves to frustrate.

 

Well first, the servers that restrict planes do so to encourage players flying meaningful sorties instead of just  yolo flying into combat without any teamwork and then ditching the plane to quickly grab a new one.

 

As far as your second statement, that simply isn't true, especially in reference to the VVS early war

[JG13_opcode]

Well first, the servers that restrict planes do so to encourage players flying meaningful sorties instead of just  yolo flying into combat without any teamwork and then ditching the plane to quickly grab a new one.

 

But that's what people do on WOL anyways.  Guys like Drinkins that suicide into the objectives in order to roll the map faster are doing it in spite of limited planes.  It's not really a meaningful sortie if you land your Pe-2 and use the turret gunners to shoot the trucks.

Edited March 17, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[Scojo]

But that's what people do on WOL anyways.  Guys like Drinkins that suicide into the objectives in order to roll the map faster are doing it in spite of limited planes.  It's not really a meaningful sortie if you land your Pe-2 and use the turret gunners to shoot the trucks.

WoL technically has a limit, yes, but practically it does not. Plane limiting that actually affects how people fly is when it's per player and low enough that they can frequently actually run out if they don't put in a certain amount of effort

 

Basically, people care more about something when it's "their own" and not shared by others and also when an a consequence is likely to happen given their failure rate if they don't try.

Edited March 17, 2017 by 71st_AH_Scojo