Ju-52 and ai aircraft in general

[=38=Tatarenko]

Please could one of the team clear this up - will there be AI aircraft in the game as well like the Ju-52 or Yak-7B? I haven't seen any reference to this at all.

 

It's just that the Battle of Stalingrad, esp the winter months, absolutely relied on the Ju-52, to the point where the point of the fighters was to permit/hinder the air bridge. Without them the sim will feel really odd. I know some He-111 (and other planes) were used as well but the whole point of defending Pitomnik etc was to allow the Ju-2 to land.

 

Equally, the role of the Po-2 supplying Stalingrad needs a look-in too.

 

So, AI planes yes/no?

 

Thanks!

[PB0_Foxy]

Like in Rise of Flight I don't think dev team will waste time to create AI only planes.

If they're spending a lot of time to make the 3D models they will make them flyable

[=38=Tatarenko]

That's what worries me - that the game will omit the Ju-52 which was a major reason for all the air ops Nov 42 -Jan 43. If you're not defending the air bridge or trying to blockade Stalingrad what are you doing? I know there were other tasks but that was the major one!

[BeastyBaiter]

RoF had a few AI planes at first but they were later all made flyable. I think I read somewhere that there are no plans for AI only planes in BoS. I can't imagine we have many lining up to fly cargo runs in a Ju-52 so sadly that plane will likely be skipped. We'll just have to make due with He-111's filling that role (which they did IRL).

[ImPeRaToR]

Unless we can somehow crowdfund/source a third party to invest about 6 months of work...

Edited November 29, 2013 by ImPeRaToR

[LukeFF]

It takes longer to code the flight model for an aircraft than it does to create the cockpit, hence the reason why all aircraft in ROF are flyable. Same sort of deal here.

[AndyHill]

Maybe the no AI -policy that works fine in RoF is being re-evaluated now when the planes' systems are much more complex.

[ImPeRaToR]

Maybe the no AI -policy that works fine in RoF is being re-evaluated now when the planes' systems are much more complex.

Now that it takes even longer to model the planes graphically and physically you think the chances of AI-only planes have increased? How is that?

[Panzerlang]

Now that it takes even longer to model the planes graphically and physically you think the chances of AI-only planes have increased? How is that?

 

The Ju52, as an AI-only plane, wouldn't exactly need a great deal of work on an accurate FM, or require a highly detailed/modelled cockpit.

[ImPeRaToR]

It would need a somewhat accurate FM or some sort of special AI so it still behaves reasonable when flying around. This would take away resources just the same, and I am guessing that running a special AI set on top of the regular AI will result in higher CPU loads.

 

What I was trying to imply/suggest was that if the money can be some how accumulated that would offset the costs for both the creation of the 3D assets as well as the code-work required, maybe it can be done in the future, especially as a flyable aircraft.

Of course if the number of interested people in such a think is relatively low, they will have to pay more. It will have to be flyable though - everybody would benefit from an AI plane, not just those who payed for it, which would make paying for it some sort of donation which would be legally and morally problematic I guess.

[thx1138]

I want a Ju 52..........

 

Please ?

[SKG51_robtek]

Mee too!

 

Transport planes are a must for online wars. imo

 

If they are flyable, much better, as there are lots of pilots without itchy trigger fingers :D

[AndyHill]

Now that it takes even longer to model the planes graphically and physically you think the chances of AI-only planes have increased? How is that?

It depends on how deeply a Ju-52's systems would actually be modeled if it was AI only. I don't even really know the details of the existing planes, so it's hard to estimate.

[Panzerlang]

It would need a somewhat accurate FM or some sort of special AI so it still behaves reasonable when flying around. This would take away resources just the same, and I am guessing that running a special AI set on top of the regular AI will result in higher CPU loads.

 

What I was trying to imply/suggest was that if the money can be some how accumulated that would offset the costs for both the creation of the 3D assets as well as the code-work required, maybe it can be done in the future, especially as a flyable aircraft.

 

Of course if the number of interested people in such a think is relatively low, they will have to pay more. It will have to be flyable though - everybody would benefit from an AI plane, not just those who payed for it, which would make paying for it some sort of donation which would be legally and morally problematic I guess.

 

A sloppier FM wouldn't work for fighters but for AI bombers and the like one could get away with 'half' FMs. As in half the banking a real one could do etc.

[Fifi]

Battle for Stalingrad without JU52?...could it be possible?

Could champagne be without bubbles... or a chili con carne be without beans? 

[=38=Tatarenko]

exactly

[Panzerlang]

They could also be made to fly off the map instead of landing, that would deal with another bunch of FM work. And fly in from off the map instead of taking off.

 

Did Ju52s parachute supplies into Stalingrad instead of landing sometimes?

 

It's all an ugly compromise but as a workaround to having them absent from the airspace...?

[SKG51_robtek]

We can only dream, that all kinds of planes will become reality in BoS.

That there will be fighters, ground attack and med. bombers is a given.

Transports ( Ju52, Arado 'Tatzelwurm', Li-2), Trainers (FW 44, Tiger Moth, UT2), Destroyers (Pe3, Bf110, Beaufighter), heavy bombers (He 177, Pe 8, B24) are the stuff to hunger for.

[Bf-110]

I don't believe Ju-52 will be totally omitted from the final product.It was pretty significant.Also,if late war is made after,C-47 will be a must have.
I guess there will be people that will enjoy flying it,avoiding getting shot and manning the rear MG,so,who knows...

[=38=Tatarenko]

 

 

Did Ju52s parachute supplies into Stalingrad instead of landing sometimes?

 

 

After the airbases were over-run by the Russians, yes, certainly.

[Feathered_IV]

It's not that transport aircraft are boring. It's just that developers implement them in a boring, unimaginative way.

 

Flying a transport into BoS Stalingrad and back out again aught to be so lucrative for points on the game leaderboards that they challenge the most active fighter and bomber flyers for first place.

The critical importance of transport aircraft should be reflected in the points awarded for bringing one down. It should be five-times that of a fighter vs fighter kill. It would put a virtual bounty on their heads and make them the most sought after prey in the game.

Not just that, but they'd be the ones with the most to loose because the 5x points should be subtracted from their own scores and awarded to the aircraft which brought them down.

There should also be some semblance of refuel and rearm. Or in the transport's case, unload and reload. A Ju-52 should fly into the Hell that was Gumrak for example, taxi to a supply area and wait with its engines running while a timer simulates it's unloading of cargo. If you end a mission there before waiting to unload, you only get xx points. If you allow the aircraft to completely unload, you get xxx points. But if you wait for the transport to unloaded and be restocked with supplies or wounded and fly all the way out again, you get xxxxxxxxx as a reward.

[=38=Tatarenko]

yes this

[Dutch]

yes this

What?

[=38=Tatarenko]

make it worth points

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I could see doing some Resupply missions in a JU-52.  I hope that the devs see the value in creating such a player flown aircraft.  There WILL be pilots who want to fly it to win missions.  Similar to RoF missions where you must complete a recon as well as other missions to win.  I can see a mission that has the JU-52's dropping X amount of supplies in to get a win out of the mission.  A very good reason to create the aircraft.   BUT please dont delay anything currently planned.  Just keep the JU-52 as an idea in the back of your mind.

[Allons]

There are several votings already up and running for "Tante Ju" or transport planes in general. Imhho there is no other sim on the horizon that models the Ju-52 so BoS would have really a unique advantage.

 

Best, Allons!

[ST_ami7b5]

I hope she will be among buyable planes.

I would buy her for sure. 

[Gunsmith86]

^^I too and many others also.

[PB0_Foxy]

Anyway if the team need help and resources ... there is a Junkers JU52/3M-4 (SN N° 24) very close to my house.

This plane is flying very often

 

http://www.ajbs.fr/avion/le-junkers-ju52-3m/

[Panzerlang]

It's not that transport aircraft are boring. It's just that developers implement them in a boring, unimaginative way.

 

Flying a transport into BoS Stalingrad and back out again aught to be so lucrative for points on the game leaderboards that they challenge the most active fighter and bomber flyers for first place.

The critical importance of transport aircraft should be reflected in the points awarded for bringing one down. It should be five-times that of a fighter vs fighter kill. It would put a virtual bounty on their heads and make them the most sought after prey in the game.

Not just that, but they'd be the ones with the most to loose because the 5x points should be subtracted from their own scores and awarded to the aircraft which brought them down.

There should also be some semblance of refuel and rearm. Or in the transport's case, unload and reload. A Ju-52 should fly into the Hell that was Gumrak for example, taxi to a supply area and wait with its engines running while a timer simulates it's unloading of cargo. If you end a mission there before waiting to unload, you only get xx points. If you allow the aircraft to completely unload, you get xxx points. But if you wait for the transport to unloaded and be restocked with supplies or wounded and fly all the way out again, you get xxxxxxxxx as a reward.

 

This, in spades. I, for one, would be a regular volunteer for such missions. But so long as our efforts amount to being not much more than mere fodder for the fighters there's really not a lot of incentive. Just getting to Stalingrad and unloading bombs on it should earn baubles.

[Flyingpencil]

Look, this is very simple,

 

No sim will survivie without a minimum number of units.

 

BoF has far to few aircraft / vehicles, but it is still alpha.

 

At what point will it have enough is debatable, but I am estimatineing at least 10 core models with 3x that many in total variants (30 min).  Subject to forum arugments. 

Edited November 30, 2013 by Flyingpencil

[Zoring]

Just give it a He-111 FM, make it so the AI doesn't fly it over whatever speed the JU-52 could do, boom. Done. Only need a 3D model.

[Juri_JS]

The Ju-52 is the symbol of the Stalingrad airlift, I can't imagine a battle of Stalingrad game without it, even if it is not available as flyable plane and AI only.

Moreover its absence will severely restrict the possibilities for historcially accurate mission building.

 

The concept of creating only flyable aircraft might have worked for ROF, but I have my doubts, that it will work in a ww2 flight sim that will also need transport and recon planes.

[4H_V-man]

I'm also hoping to see the Iron Annie in BOS. Resupply of encircled troops was the main job of the Luftwaffe during the battle. I also posted in the 'suggestion' section to award points for recon aircraft. This is a HUGE omission in RoF, as recon was the primary reason the two sides started using aircraft to start with. Recon also played a large role in WWII as well. I'd love to see the FW 189, BuV 141, etc. at some point as well. I love air to air combat, but the challenge of taking a recon or transport aircraft into a battle area and complleting the mission would be a lot of fun.

[FlatSpinMan]

Great idea FIV. I'm not a points guy at all, but your suggestion would appeal to many who might not otherwise see the merit if flying transports.

Besides, in bad weather at low level with fighter opposition, it wouldn't lack for excitement.

[Furio]

The whole reward points-thing could be seen the other way around.

German fighters should have as their main goal the protection of cargo planes, and should obtain the “mission accomplished” reward only if the transports reach Stalingrad and return safely. 

Edited December 2, 2013 by Furio

[SCG_Neun]

The Ju-52 is the symbol of the Stalingrad airlift, I can't imagine a battle of Stalingrad game without it, even if it is not available as flyable plane and AI only.

Moreover its absence will severely restrict the possibilities for historcially accurate mission building.

 

The concept of creating only flyable aircraft might have worked for ROF, but I have my doubts, that it will work in a ww2 flight sim that will also need transport and recon planes.

+1

[II./JG27_Rich]

Mee too!

 

Transport planes are a must for online wars. imo

 

If they are flyable, much better, as there are lots of pilots without itchy trigger fingers :D

Correct. You have to fly wounded out and bring in that horrible food

Edited December 3, 2013 by II./JG27_Rich