Should I re-buy a DCS WW2 plane or stick with Il2?

[Guest deleted@30725]

I've been thinking about getting a joystick and then I downloaded DCS and really enjoyed playing the tf-51. Just like old times. Started in 30 seconds. Nice features, make your own missions, re-arm, start up yourself and play around. Here I go again. Look at the module list - STOP

 

"First spotting other aircraft is practically impossible outside of 400m and most servers use a very poorly implemented model enlargement feature that causes aircraft to appear at 30 miles and disappear as they get close enough to have their 3D models rendered. Second, the current state of damage modeling is, to put it nicely, atrocious. The 30mm the 109 has can kill the 51 pilot or aircraft in 1-2 shots while the 109 can take literally hundreds of .50 cal rounds with no loss of flight performance.

Ok you say, I won't fly online and instead will stick to single player fighting AI. Good thought, but unfortunately the AI uses a simplified version of the flight model so they will always outperform (but not always out think) human players. This paired with the poor damage modeling means that they can soak up even more ammo than a player controlled aircraft all while being able to score nearly impossible shots thanks to their superior gunnery skills."

 

I really enjoyed the ww2 planes in DCS. The Dora was my favorite. I want to buy the Dora again even though the pit in Il2 for a-3 looks nearly identical.

 

So what is the state of the game at the moment taken from a ww2 fighter plane interest. Is it still as bad as this reviewer says. I recall all the problems he talks about in his review of the P-51. Do the Fms really make up for it, I don't recall them being perfect and the ww2 map is going to be paid DlC.

 

I'm currently finding the online in Il2 to be some of the most fun in a long time and we get a spitfire in the future too. I've played most of the DCS planes. Is it worth getting back into when Il2 seems like the perfect middle ground.

 

Yet... tempting... I'm thinking Il2 is the better game and DCS the better sim?

 

Ohh, cas in the a10c, what DCS was made for.

Edited December 2, 2016 by deleted@30725

[SOLIDKREATE]

The UH-1 is fun to fly around. I have yet to master the Black Shark though. The A-10, I can finally start up on my own without a manual, LOL.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

OT: the UH-1 transfers to real life reasonably well. Torque effect is a little under-modeled though. The Gazelle seems MUCH twitcher than the EC-120 I fly IRL. Though the light Airbus helos are all known to be a little twitchy in the hover.

[Sokol1]

If you already tried and give up, nothing really new happen to justify buy again.

 

Still the same THREE (3) warbirds (Spit Mk.IX in Dec, 16), out of place in the world. OK for MP duels...

 

But far from "WWII CFS" game, to a point that don't make much sense compare with other CFS game.

[Guest deleted@30725]

If you already tried and give up, nothing really new happen to justify buy again.

 

Still the same THREE (3) warbirds (Spit Mk.IX in Dec, 16), out of place in the world. OK for MP duels...

 

But far from "WWII CFS" game, to a point that don't make much sense compare with other CFS game.

 

This is what I found. Not really gave up. At the time I really wanted to stick to one ww2 aircraft game. At the time I really wanted to try out the planes I brought because I'd seen them all in museums and wanted to get an idea of what it was like to fly them. Clod has given me a pretty good idea of the spitfire and bok will have one too with a lesser fm than the dcs one, but it will at least fit in its environment and fight similar era planes

 

I would ideally like to get one plane or helicopter. So far I keep coming back to that the best plane in DCS by far is the A10C because it is

 

• No a prop plane so good alternative to Il2
• Has loads of weapons for ground attack
• Seems to fit in with the free map
• Can do a basic amount of air to air.
• Everyone needs a ground attack plane.

The ww2 planes just feel so much like taking the museum piece out and then blowing it up rather than il2 that you feel like your plane is supposed to be there and even though the fm is worse it almost doesn't matter?

 

Also been reading this thread http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/8092-how-does-dcs-compare-bos/

Edited December 2, 2016 by deleted@30725

[Monostripezebra]

the obvious answer is both.

 

They are different kinds of animals with both their pros and cons, but not really direct competition in the current state. BoS is better for online fight dynamics and complete themed package but has less deep system modeling while DCS has deep system modeling but the integration of how the different modules interact is a bit more "bumpy". I would not like to miss my DCS mustang module, which is awesome and one of the best flightsimbit in my oppion, as well as flying my Pe2s in BoS/BoM online. There really is no point in not having both, aside from money.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Monostripezebra

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

the obvious answer is both.

This.

Get both.

Fly both.

Enjoy both.

Neither is perfect, both have flaws but I enjoy them equally. Best part is that when I get bored with one I switch to the other and keep flying until I get into mood to get back.   

[Lusekofte]

The UH-1 is fun to fly around. I have yet to master the Black Shark though. The A-10, I can finally start up on my own without a manual, LOL.

 

 

The K 50 Black Shark is really not that hard to learn, you can make the tutorials and practice a bit and then be pretty much ready for ops, flying with veterans always help and will learn you the rest in due time.

 

I fly events in BOS and offline in DCS with a few KA 50 and MI 8 online. Nothing wrong going for both

Edited December 3, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte

[BeastyBaiter]

I have all 3 WW2 birds currently but never fly them. Nothing has changed in regards to those listed problems. They are working on totally revamping the damage models for player aircraft (I haven't heard about AI improvements) but we all know how long it takes for anything DCS related to get done. In terms of flight modeling, I think BoX is a bit more realistic. Neither is perfect of course, but BoX pulls a little ahead overall. In flight I find the flight models to be very similar. Flying the 190A3 here and the 190D9 there gives a remarkably similar experience. They both have very similar handling, you feel the difference in mass and engine power, but the feel of both is very similar. What separates BoX from DCS is the ground handling. BoX doesn't do it particularly well, but DCS doesn't even make an attempt. Thus BoX wins by default.

 

I play far more DCS than I do BoX these days, but I play it for the F-5, MiG-21 and choppers. The WW2 and Korean stuff simply doesn't work very well there. They don't have the damage modeling, the AI FM's, the AI itself or the supporting AI units (bombers, tanks, ships, etc).

[Guest deleted@50488]

I am known at the civil flightsim forums I have long been a member of as "THE UNINSTALLER" because I more often uninstall than install sims...

 

I try desperately to find something wrong with each sim that overlaps another one I also use, and throw it directly into the trashcan ( literally when they came in boxes with CDs / DVDs :-) )

 

I tried to do the same regarding DCS vs IL2. In DCS I only use the UH-1H ( some post above mentioned the tame torque effects, and I agree ! ) and the ww2 birds, and am waiting for the Spitfire to be released, but IMO, the flight and overall physics modeling in IL2 is superior. I am a glider pilot irl, for more than 3 decades, and I really seek for perfection in flight dynamics modelling in any sim I use, and although in terms of detail and interaction with systems DCS can be better, there are still some aspects of the modelling I prefer the way IL2 represents them.

 

For the thrill of air combat I pick IL2. Also in DCS I almost never can glimpse friend or foe, unless I use rather unrealistic zoom factors...

 

My suggestion, as that of others in this thread - use both and profit from the BEST flight dynamics presently available among any flight simulators!

[Sokol1]

I would ideally like to get one plane or helicopter. So far I keep coming back to that the best plane in DCS by far is the A10C 

 

 

Well, F-5 Tiger is a good "jet" option, not too complicate and provide good match-up online with MiG-21 Bis.

 

Helicopter is Ka-50. Is not too complicated, has some flight stabilization assistance, with little practice and kneeboard aid you are able do master their start-up sequence, fit best in the "world", well document, SP campaigns.

[Rolling_Thunder]

... as the proper DM is being worked on and shouldn't take too long to be released.

Lol, you're kidding right? I'll be surprised if the spitfire is released on 16 Dec. And I very much doubt the Normandy map makes it into the customers hard drive this year. A new DM will take them 2 to 5 years.

DCS is a good aircraft simulator i'll give them that. As a cfs it's woefully lacking. Warthunder is a better cfs than DCS world.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

And I very much doubt the Normandy map makes it into the customers hard drive this year.

It certainly wont. There is no ETA of Normandy yet as they havent finished it. Question of this kind was asked on forums and reply was simple that its still very much work in progress so they dont want to put it on preorder yet. I'd honestly expect it somewhere in Q2 of 2017.

A DM is a must, its really annoying how poorly it works in those birds. It might be less noticeable if one is armed with 20/30 mm cannons, but nevertheless its bad.

 

Worst problem however I find with DCS from software side and netcode. They so often focus on tremendous detail only to fail with basics - recently there started appearing bug on multiplayer where people using chat would loose their cursor requiring them to restart game. And that issue was happening every single time a person would use in-game chat. Solution was provided on forums where a replacement of a file is necessary but why the hell wasnt it included into any patch ?

Now there is yet again issue with common loss of command section after landing. Quite often after re-spawning or landing I find that I'm unable to open command options to ask for rearm and refuel. And that kind of things are notorious. I'd seriously question their testing team, methods and quality control because of such events. 

 

 

 

Warthunder is a better cfs than DCS world.

It's because they really dont understand that. CFS in large part is not nearly as interested in historical details or high fidelity, or unless it suits them to be specific. Hell, they dont often care about historical immersion either. What matters only is combat. And ED also has a large part of customers who never fly online, mostly they just stay in single-player missions or campaigns. Average forum user mentality out there doesnt help either. 

[Gambit21]

Yet... tempting... I'm thinking Il2 is the better game and DCS the better sim?

 

 

Do you want to fly a WWII airplane, or fly a WWII airplane in WWII?

Comes down to that as far as I'm concerned - which is why I ignore DCS for the time being even though I own the Dora.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Gambit21

[Guest deleted@30725]

Sorry for my noobness, but what is the meaning of CFS? I looked it up, but not sure if it was the right thing.

 

 

Do you want to fly a WWII airplane, or fly a WWII airplane in WWII?

Comes down to that as far as I'm concerned - which is why I ignore DCS for the time being even though I own the Dora.

 

You're right. This is why I switched fully to Il2.

 

I appreciate your responses guys. I've read all them. I've even started going into the 'expert' servers at last in Il2 where i had a great time learning to not blow up the E7s engine, getting to grips with plane recognition and learning to use the map to navigate and the attack the intended target. I saw a fur ball and instead carefully carried on to my own personal objective dropping a bomb on a factory to then navigate through the snow covered land to the tiny strip that was the base runway.

 

I'm very much an online only player these days. I just prefer to play with other humans.

 

I think, having thought about it I would not get any ww2 stuff for DCS, but maybe in the future I might get something Jet or helicopter and plus that ww2 map might make me change my mind and maybe even something I've not used in the past.

[Dakpilot]

CFS = Combat Flight Sim

 

Cheers Dakpilot