New Yak

[Crump]

 

 

I think, in your example you want to say that we did overperformanced Soviet fighters and underperformanced Axis ones. Actually it is not true. Due to complicated FM it's possible some errors, but there is no 'russian' or 'german bias'.   PS. We do all the best to reduce such errors.

 

Exactly.  All aircraft performance is a range of normal variation over a mean result.  If the games FM's are within that variation then everything humanly possible has been done.  Airspeed measurement was not an exact science in the 1940's and the expression of compressibility effects was not universal.  That is makes constructing a World War II FM problematic at times and requires the DEVS to be detectives all while meeting a deadline to release the game.

 

Listen to Phenazepam, please.  Stop the stupidity with the accusations of cultural bias.  Math is the math and DEVs are doing a good job attempting to get things right.

 

Thank you for communicating with us Phenazepam.

[Crump]

I've heard people on here talk about stabilizer settings having an impact?

 

 

In a real aircraft trim drag can be significant.  Trim is a speed to the airplane and if you are telling to stay at a different speed than what you are actually flying...it creates drag. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Crump

[Crump]

 

 

first, I measured 470 IAS - 640 TAS (for FW-190, 100% fuel, 6000 m, 1.42/2700), so not -20, but -10 kph error.   second, the same FW 190 at sea level has 15 kph overspeed (555 TAS in game - 540 TAS IRL, 1.42/2700), at 8 km FW 190 has at least 10 kph overspeed (655 (and continue growing) TAS to the end of the third minute in game - 645 TAS IRL, full throttle/2700).   I think, in your example you want to say that we did overperformanced Soviet fighters and underperformanced Axis ones. Actually it is not true. Due to complicated FM it's possible some errors, but there is no 'russian' or 'german bias'.   PS. We do all the best to reduce such errors.

 

Good lord guys...

 

 

 I measured 470 IAS - 640 TAS (for FW-190, 100% fuel, 6000 m, 1.42/2700), so not -20, but -10 kph error.

 

 That is a 1.5% error....(pessimistic)

 

 

second, the same FW 190 at sea level has 15 kph overspeed (555 TAS in game - 540 TAS IRL, 1.42/2700)

 

That is a 2.7% error (optimistic)

 

 

 8 km FW 190 has at least 10 kph overspeed (655 (and continue growing) TAS to the end of the third minute in game - 645 TAS IRL, full throttle/2700).

 

That is a 1.5% error and growing (optimistic).

 

 

There is absolutely NOTHING to complain about in the FW-190's level speeds. 

[JG13_opcode]

I suggest moderators spin off 190 stuff into another thread. This one was about the Yak.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

I really appreciate the devs taking part in the discussion!

[150GCT_Veltro]

I really appreciate the devs taking part in the discussion!

 

Yes.

 

Here we go again. This would deserve an answer as well.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26190-yak-1-and-yak-1b-overheat/?view=getnewpost

[kendo]

Got the answer it seems

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26190-yak-1-and-yak-1b-overheat/?p=411288

 

- but I can't understand Russian, so...

 

...this is ALL getting really out of hand by  the way.

[Han]

Oh, I see that moderators have done right things here... Nice to see that.

So, I've promised to share inside about A-5 in this case. So I had to keep my word. If everything will go as it is planned - we expect A-5 in spring of 2017. In the same time with A-5 release fix for A-3 FM will be released to.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Thanks for sharing

[Danziger]

Oh, I see that moderators have done right things here... Nice to see that.

So, I've promised to share inside about A-5 in this case. So I had to keep my word. If everything will go as it is planned - we expect A-5 in spring of 2017. In the same time with A-5 release fix for A-3 FM will be released to.

Nice! So first the G4 then I'm guessing Spitfire and then probably 190. I'm not much of a LW guy but the 190 is my favourite German fighter so I can't wait for the A5 Also hopefully the fix for the A3 will stop a lot of the more unreasonable posts.

[Irgendjemand]

Well, thats all it needed on that matter. (At least for me) Thanks for the Feedback.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Hutzlipuh]

 

 

Oh, I see that moderators have done right things here... Nice to see that.

So, I've promised to share inside about A-5 in this case. So I had to keep my word. If everything will go as it is planned - we expect A-5 in spring of 2017. In the same time with A-5 release fix for A-3 FM will be released to.

 

Ok so the Mig got fixed within weeks and we have to wait atleast 5 months more for a 190 fix?

Im sorry , that is not a satisfactory time to fix  a collector plane sold for 20 bucks and released over 1,5 years ago...

[Danziger]

Ok so the Mig got fixed within weeks and we have to wait atleast 5 months more for a 190 fix?

Im sorry , that is not a satisfactory time to fix a collector plane sold for 20 bucks and released over 1,5 years ago...

Well....[Edited]

 

It's taken almost a year for the MiG-3 to get "fixed" btw. It takes time. They work in fixes when they can fit it in the schedule or when they are already working on something similar.

Edited November 18, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin
personal

[Hutzlipuh]

Well, [edited]

 

It's taken almost a year for the MiG-3 to get "fixed" btw. It takes time. They work in fixes when they can fit it in the schedule or when they are already working on something similar.

And with you labeling me you can go to hell ...F+++ Y*++

and i was talking about the landing gear fix that was within a few weeks....

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

Violations of this rule will result in the following:

 

First offense - 3 days ban on entry

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

You think revising a flight model is exactly the same as increasing the pressure on a tyre?

 

Here's a challenge: I'll go design an aircraft, you'll fill your bike's tyres. Who will finish sooner?

[SYN_Mike77]

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/cheese-wheel-traditional-isolated-white-34592798.jpg

 

just thought I'd bring the food.

Edited November 18, 2016 by SYN_Mike77

[Aap]

I guess it is also more difficult and resource consuming to correct something in the fundamentals of a flight model than fixing a landing gear. Like it is easier in real life to fix a leak in a roof than fix the vertical angle of Pisa tower. 

I was also hoping for faster concentration on the Fw190, though.

[Hutzlipuh]

Its typical for this forum that the defenders of Box will attack any post critizing decisions by the devs... i have had enough of you guys trying to crush crticism ...

[Danziger]

And with you labeling me you can go to hell ...F+++ Y*++

and i was talking about the landing gear fix that was within a few weeks....

This is the world of adults, Hutz. Acting like a toddler throwing a tantrum and crying that you want it NOW doesn't work.

[Hutzlipuh]

This is the world of adults, Hutz. Acting like a toddler throwing a tantrum and crying that you want it NOW doesn't work.

so you labeling me is an "adult" thing? LOL.... and i never said i want the fix NOW.... just stop trying to devalue other peoples opinion

Edited November 18, 2016 by Hutzlipuh

[Danziger]

Its typical for this forum that the defenders of Box will attack any post critizing decisions by the devs... i have had enough of you guys trying to crush crticism ...

There is a difference between people posting legitimate criticism and people like you acting like spoiled children who are upset that mommy and daddy don't let them stay up late to watch TV.

 

The 190 will get fixed when they have time to devote to it. Either grow up and deal with it or move on.

[Danziger]

The MiG-3 landing gear was fixed straight away because they were ALREADY WORKING ON LANDING GEAR. They didn't have to stop what they were doing to work on something different.

[Dr_Molem]

The 190 will get fixed reworked when they have time to devote to it. Either grow up and deal with it or move on.

 

Fixed that for you.

[Crump]

Thanks for letting us know Han.

[SJ_Butcher]

what worries me is the acceleration, the FW 190 have a monstrous engine (high HP) to compensate the radial design, but the acceleration is really bad.

[Dakpilot]

what worries me is the acceleration, the FW 190 have a monstrous engine (high HP) to compensate the radial design, but the acceleration is really bad.

 

Have you considered its weight?

 

have a look at the other aircrafts weights and horsepower and think of power to weight ratio

 

these feelings or worries will then be backed up by data

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Crump]

Have you considered its weight?

 

have a look at the other aircrafts weights and horsepower and think of power to weight ratio

 

these feelings or worries will then be backed up by data

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

The FW-190 has a power to weight ratio that is in the upper ranks for a World War II fighter.

 

To get an idea...

 

My 1000lb 180 HP Thorp T-18 has a power to weight ratio of 5.8 lbs per horsepower.  The acceleration is extremely noticeable and much more so than the 100,000lbs Large Transport Category aircraft I fly at work.

 

A Cessna 172 has a power to weight ratio of 12.7lbs per Horsepower.

 

An FW-190A8 has a power to weight ratio of ~4.8lbs per horsepower

 

A Yak-1 has a power to weight of ~5.1lbs per horsepower

 

A Yak-3 has a power to weight of ~4.7 lbs per horsepower

 

 

Here is the acceleration line up of the FW-190A3 vs Yak-1 series 69:

 

 

And the La-5 vs FW-190A3:

 

 

The La-5 and the FW-190 are very similar performance wise.....

[MiloMorai]

 

 

An FW-190A8 has a power to weight ratio of ~4.8lbs per horsepower

 

More like ~5.8lb/hp for the Fw190A-8.

 

1677 x 4.8 = 8050lb or 3659kg which is ~700kg to light.

[Willy__]

 

 

Have you considered its weight?   have a look at the other aircrafts weights and horsepower and think of power to weight ratio   these feelings or worries will then be backed up by data   Cheers Dakpilot

 

Yeah, the 190 is very heavy and yet it has an abysmal dive performance... the 109 dives better, ingame wise. 

[Crump]

FW-190A8 weight for a normal fighter as per the ladeplan divided by the emergency power of the aircraft (same power conditions the other aircraft are compared at...)

 

9418lbs / 1950 hp = 4.8lbs per Horsepower

[MiloMorai]

FW-190A8 weight for a normal fighter as per the ladeplan divided by the emergency power of the aircraft (same power conditions the other aircraft are compared at...)

 

9418lbs / 1950 hp = 4.8lbs per Horsepower

I see we have a Hungarian lawyer.

 

4400kg = 9680lb

BMW801D > 1700ps/1677hp

[tomo-pauk]

By the time Fw190A-8 is available, the max power is indeed at 1950 PS, since 1.58/1.65 ata boost is approved.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

what worries me is the acceleration, the FW 190 have a monstrous engine (high HP) to compensate the radial design, but the acceleration is really bad.

I suppose you referr to dive acceleration since it's horizontal was worse than the Bf109 F (mentioned in german comparison trials).

 

Acceleration is not only depending on power and weight but also aerodnymical qualities. Any changes to the airfoil will provide performence changes across the board so it's better to wait for spring 17 and test it again.

Edited November 18, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Crump]

 

 

Is there any relationship between acceleration and the coefficient of lift issue that they will be addressing in the Spring?

 

More lift means more drag.  They have a direct relationship.  Appropriate power means appropriate performance.

 

With the correct power though and way in which the forces develop in drag due to lift and all other forms of drag you can still accelerate very well.  Power to weight will give you a good idea of the acceleration characteristics.  Generally speaking the low speed acceleration from the Cl^1/3/Cd back to Vs will be poorer in the FW-190 and the acceleration forward to Vmax will be better depending on many factors.

 

Clear as mud?? 

[3./JG15_Kampf]

 

 

I really appreciate the devs taking part in the discussion!

+1

 

 

Oh, I see that moderators have done right things here... Nice to see that. So, I've promised to share inside about A-5 in this case. So I had to keep my word. If everything will go as it is planned - we expect A-5 in spring of 2017. In the same time with A-5 release fix for A-3 FM will be released to.

 I'm more anxious by the end of March than by DX11

[Wulf]

Oh, I see that moderators have done right things here... Nice to see that.

So, I've promised to share inside about A-5 in this case. So I had to keep my word. If everything will go as it is planned - we expect A-5 in spring of 2017. In the same time with A-5 release fix for A-3 FM will be released to.

 

 

Great news; it really is.The time frame may not be ideal but personally I'm more than willing to wait if it means we get a higher fidelity 190 as a result.  

 

To all of you who made this happen, thank you.  I feel I have to single out Crump here because he has been tireless in his efforts to get us to this point, and frankly he has often been abused on this forum for his efforts.

[ITAF_Cymao]

In the same time with A-5 release fix for A-3 FM will be released to.

To fix the old model that I already paid do I have to wait for the release of new model?

Nice!

Thank goodness I dont have to wait for release of Fw 190 D9 :-D

Edited November 19, 2016 by ITAF_Cymao

[LLv24_Zami]

To fix the old model that I already paid

do I have to wait for the release of new model?

Nice!

 

Thank goodness I dont have to release of Fw 190 D9 :-D

Some people are never ever satisfied

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

 

 

To fix the old model that I already paid do I have to wait for the release of new model?

 

I remember the times when it was still all feelings... I think things have really improved from there.

Edited November 19, 2016 by II/JG17_SchwarzeDreizehn

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

More lift means more drag. They have a direct relationship. Appropriate power means appropriate performance.

IMHO due to the fact that although they adjusted L/D in a way to meet flawed data, they still had to meet criteria such as climb rate and top speed. Along the way of these adjustments, the aerodynamical efficiency of the 190 got screwed up, which results in things like lowered dive acceleration, level acceleration and awkward stall.

So I think that the adjustment that we will get will not be anything straight forward like more drag more lift or vice versa, because as I understand the devs, lift/drag is combined from several different components (that I do not know), which the model uses as input.

 

P.S. sorry for spamming a YAK thread

Edited November 19, 2016 by II/JG17_SchwarzeDreizehn