High altitude bombing

[Reaperr]

Hello to all pilots i want to ask for your help with high altitude level bombing 4000+ meters. i'm asking you help for myself and others new pilots.

I having problem with aligning with target or hitting it, my biggest difficulty is correcting wind angle and drift angle, sometimes it seams wind have no effect on bombing and other times it does. I did look at all tutorials and videos where i can find and seams all of them are old and not explaining properly how to calculate or how they getting wind correction angle. If you have any kind of calculator or easy to use formula please share if you can i would highly appreciated for any kind of help.

[Shepherd]

Well there are quite some tutorials on youtube explaining the procedure more or less good.

But if you want just write me a PN then we can meet via teamspeak and go for a practice flight...

 

KR

[GridiroN]

It's rather simple, but I agree most videos actually do not explain it correctly. I had to figure it out myself.

 

Go into bombing view. Pull up the weather report.

 

Let's say the weather report says the wind is coming @ 5 m/s from 270 degrees.

 

Your bomber is flying north, at 355 degrees.

 

Set the wind speed at m/s. Then you must calculate the wind angle to throw the bomb into. This angle is the shortest distance from your plane to the indicated wind angle. In this case the plane is flying 355 degrees and the wind is striking the bomb at 270 degrees, meaning the wind angle the bomb must be thrown into will be 85 degrees to the plane's left.

 

If the angle is greater than 180 degrees, you've calculated backwards.

 

Most online tutorials explain it as simply a matter of subtracting the plane's angle from the wind's angle, which only works so long as the plane's angle is greater than the wind's angle. For eg. if the player is flying 30 degrees, and the wind is blowing 350 degrees, 30-350= (-320) degrees, which makes no sense, even if the number was positive.

Edited November 13, 2016 by GridiroN

[JimTM]

I found this video by Monostripezebra to be very helpful. In the bomb sight, he sets the altitude to minimum and airspeed to maximum so that the bomb sight view is aimed on objects far ahead of the airplane. This gives you time to make corrections to the heading and wind angle well before reaching the target. He then gradually adjusts the altitude and airspeed settings to their true values as the target gets closer.

 

Check this post for details about a comment in the video (1:00 to 2:15) re. setting your altimeter before takeoff. There are also comments related to the Pe-2 series 35 earlier in the thread that I linked to.

[GridiroN]

I found this video by Monostripezebra to be very helpful. In the bomb sight, he sets the altitude to minimum and airspeed to maximum so that the bomb sight view is aimed on objects far ahead of the airplane. This gives you time to make corrections to the heading and wind angle well before reaching the target. He then gradually adjusts the altitude and airspeed settings to their true values as the target gets closer.

 

Check this post for details about a comment in the video (1:00 to 2:15) re. setting your altimeter before takeoff. There are also comments related to the Pe-2 series 35 earlier in the thread that I linked to.

 

The altimeter in the bomb site gives a different reading (less) than the altimeter in the plane's cockpit, therefore, I was under the impression the proper altitude was already provided for you. 

[JimTM]

The altimeter in the bomb site gives a different reading (less) than the altimeter in the plane's cockpit, therefore, I was under the impression the proper altitude was already provided for you. 

 

Are you sure about your readings? I don't see a scenario where the bomb sight altimeter is less than the cockpit altimeter. For the current maps, the following should be the case:

 

- Bomb sight altimeter equal to cockpit altimeter, if you set your cockpit altimeter to "Altimeter reference pressure: standard atmosphere" in technochat (the bombsight altimeter readings are based on standard atmosphere).

 

- Bomb sight altimeter greater than cockpit altimeter, if you set your cockpit altimeter to "Altimeter reference pressure: nearest friendly airfield elevation" in technochat.

 

As far as I know, the cockpit altimeter is always set to "Altimeter reference pressure: nearest friendly airfield elevation" when you spawn in. This setting is best for level bombing.

Edited November 13, 2016 by JimTM

[GridiroN]

Are you sure about your readings? I don't see a scenario where the bomb sight altimeter is less than the cockpit altimeter. For the current maps, the following should be the case:

 

- Bomb sight altimeter equal to cockpit altimeter, if you set your cockpit altimeter to "Altimeter reference pressure: standard atmosphere" in technochat (the bombsight altimeter readings are based on standard atmosphere).

 

- Bomb sight altimeter greater than cockpit altimeter, if you set your cockpit altimeter to "Altimeter reference pressure: nearest friendly airfield elevation" in technochat.

 

As far as I know, the cockpit altimeter is always set to "Altimeter reference pressure: nearest friendly airfield elevation" when you spawn in. This setting is best for level bombing.

 

The bombsite altimeter is most certainly at a different reading than the actual plane's. At least in my game, in the German bombers. Ill take a picture of this when I get home in 2hrs. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by GridiroN

[Monostripezebra]

you really want to use the QFE on the cockpit altimeter, not the bombsight (press alt+A) as base value and then add all corrective ideas from there...  only an empirical value will help with precision. The GUI of the bombsight view is bugged in my eyes, as it is somehow always related to the ISA-setting, which off course is nonsense if you want a reference to the ground. Standard Athmosphere settings are for comparing altitudes of flying aircraft and avoiding collisions of planes with different altimeter settings.. it does not have any other purpose.

 

bombing over 5k means you need to establish weather data yourself.. as it is not covered in the bombsight itself. Use lots of small bombs to verify your wind guesses.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kOFJlW98D8

Edited November 13, 2016 by Monostripezebra

[YoYo]

You can check also my short tutorial:

 

[Reaperr]

Thank you all for the help i'm rely appreciated. i did found these 2 formulas kind of working at least for me. 

 

wind is from 108* at 11 m/s at 5000 m plane heading 290

 

Example 1.  360(degrees) - 290(plane heading) = 70 + 108(wind direction) = 178 (around 180*) wind correction 180 

 

Example 2. 290(plane heading) - 108(wind heading) = 182(around 180*) wind correction 180 

 

Please correct me if i'm wrong. And GridiroN then how you correct yours example to be right.

 

For eg. if the player is flying 30 degrees, and the wind is blowing 350 degrees, 30-350= (-320) degrees, which makes no sense, even if the number was positive

. Thank you all again for you help

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

you really want to use the QFE on the cockpit altimeter, not the bombsight (press alt+A) as base value and then add all corrective ideas from there...  only an empirical value will help with precision. The GUI of the bombsight view is bugged in my eyes, as it is somehow always related to the ISA-setting, which off course is nonsense if you want a reference to the ground. Standard Athmosphere settings are for comparing altitudes of flying aircraft and avoiding collisions of planes with different altimeter settings.. it does not have any other purpose.

 

bombing over 5k means you need to establish weather data yourself.. as it is not covered in the bombsight itself. Use lots of small bombs to verify your wind guesses.

 

 

Picked up a tip from your video on setting speed to 600kph for viewing purposes.  At first I thought, what the heck is he doing?  I always used the View and then set the wind adjustments.  Prior to bombing I always had to double check my speed, then switch to Manual.  Even with the wind speed adjustments the crosshairs would jump a little after switching.   All that is now out the window.  Now I use View for just viewing.  So simple using the speed input to actual to bring the crosshairs down to the target with no last second crosshair jump.  Thanks.

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

Wind Angle Calculations

The calculation for setting the instrument is this:

 

 (WIND DIRECTION) minus (PLANE COURSE)

 

 

 A. For results from 0 to 180 we set the number as is to the right side of instrument.

 B. For results from 0 to -180 we set the number as is to the left side of instrument.

 

 (RIGHT SIDE: from 0 to 180 clockwise // LEFT SIDE: from 0 to 180 anti-clockwise)

 

 

 1.For results greater than 180 we DEDUCT from the result 360 and set according to A or B.

 2.For results greater than -180 we ADD to the result 360 and set according to A or B.

 

 

 Examples:

 

 Wind course 130, Plane course 80:
 130-80=50 , Set 50 deg on right side.

 

 Wind course 60, Plane course 130:
 60-130= -70 , Set 70 deg on left side.

 

 Wind course 290, Plane course 40:
 290-40=250 // 250-360= -110, Set 110 deg on left side.

 

 Wind course 20, Plane course 260:
 20-260= -240 // -240+360=120, Set 120 deg on right side.

 

So for Gridirons' and your question Papa_Bear:

 

Wind Course 350, Plane Course 30:

350-30= 320 // 320-360= -40, Set 40 on the left side.

 

There's a handy Wind Angle Calculator that you put together yourself floating around on the forums here but can't remember where or by whom.

 

Good Luck and Good Bombing,

Tip

 

 

[JimTM]

...

 

There's a handy Wind Angle Calculator that you put together yourself floating around on the forums here but can't remember where or by whom.

 

...

 

Here's a post with some links to wind calculators. Is that what you are after?

[GridiroN]

wind is from 108* at 11 m/s at 5000 m plane heading 290

 

Example 1. 360(degrees) - 290(plane heading) = 70 + 108(wind direction) = 178 (around 180*) wind correction 180 

 

Example 2. 290(plane heading) - 108(wind heading) = 182(around 180*) wind correction 180 

 

Please correct me if i'm wrong. And GridiroN then how you correct yours example to be right.

 

Thank you all again for you help

The way I do it, is if the plane is heading 290, and the wind is coming from 108, then the fastest route to "108" is going backwards, so it's 70 degrees back to 0 and 108 degrees to "108" = 178 degrees to the plane's right.

 

The same method would be used to correct the example I gave to demonstrate how most people get it wrong. Instead, you should go backwards, so it's 30 degrees back to 0 and then 10 degrees to 350, = 40 to the left.

Edited November 14, 2016 by GridiroN

[Reaperr]

Wind Angle Calculations

The calculation for setting the instrument is this:

 

 (WIND DIRECTION) minus (PLANE COURSE)

 

 

 A. For results from 0 to 180 we set the number as is to the right side of instrument.

 B. For results from 0 to -180 we set the number as is to the left side of instrument.

 

 (RIGHT SIDE: from 0 to 180 clockwise // LEFT SIDE: from 0 to 180 anti-clockwise)

 

 

 1.For results greater than 180 we DEDUCT from the result 360 and set according to A or B.

 2.For results greater than -180 we ADD to the result 360 and set according to A or B.

 

 

 Examples:

 

 Wind course 130, Plane course 80:

 130-80=50 , Set 50 deg on right side.

 

 Wind course 60, Plane course 130:

 60-130= -70 , Set 70 deg on left side.

 

 Wind course 290, Plane course 40:

 290-40=250 // 250-360= -110, Set 110 deg on left side.

 

 Wind course 20, Plane course 260:

 20-260= -240 // -240+360=120, Set 120 deg on right side.

 

So for Gridirons' and your question Papa_Bear:

 

Wind Course 350, Plane Course 30:

350-30= 320 // 320-360= -40, Set 40 on the left side.

 

There's a handy Wind Angle Calculator that you put together yourself floating around on the forums here but can't remember where or by whom.

 

Good Luck and Good Bombing,

Tip

 

Thank you so much [DBS]Tx_Tip for very detail and easy understand explanation i'm appreciating allot your'e help. i believe  that is gonna be very useful for many of us

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

Glad to help out Papa_Bear.

 

Yep, thats the topic I was thinking about Jim.

 

Stab/ZG26-Ruhland fashioned it.
Looks like the link is down. Here are the printable parts to the calculator in case anyone is interested in making one. 
Wind Angle Calculator

 

From Stab/ZG26-Ruhlands OP...
"It works quite simple. There are three layers, the first is a white disk with angles from 0 to 360, the second is grey with a black plane and angles for the ingame wind angle correction and the third is some kind of pointer. All layers are pinned in the center, so they can be rotated independently. In my example, my heading direction is 130°, so I rotate the grey disk until the black arrow points at 130. Then I move the orange pointer to 280, where the wind comes from (check the wind direction from the weather report within bombsight view). The window in the pointer now shows the number 150 on the right wing, which is the final value for the wind correction in the bomb sight."

 

Tip

[Monostripezebra]

Picked up a tip from your video on setting speed to 600kph for viewing purposes.  At first I thought, what the heck is he doing?  I always used the View and then set the wind adjustments.  Prior to bombing I always had to double check my speed, then switch to Manual.  Even with the wind speed adjustments the crosshairs would jump a little after switching.   All that is now out the window.  Now I use View for just viewing.  So simple using the speed input to actual to bring the crosshairs down to the target with no last second crosshair jump.  Thanks.

 

depending on the relative offset-angle of the wind, there is still a little movement of the centerline, once you dial in speed.. that´s why I dial it in first, then alt. While approaches with tailwind are in my eyes best (the least time in the flak zone and best surprise factor) this method is quite good for offset-angle sidewinds, as once you have the speed dialed in, you can set the wind correction angle of the aircraft without any calculations but just empirical turning until the target does not drift out of the centerline anymore.. in that case, the plane itself is angled in such a way, that it corrects the wind drift (Sort of like the VFR traffic usually is "homing" on NDBs in the real world).

 

 

For the wind angle corrections in the bombsight I use a very simple method without any calculations at all.. I look at the compass rose there at the place where the wind comes from.. and then look the course arrow and ask myself: "Is this left or right side of the aircraft?" then "Is it closer to bow or tail?" and then I simply count (using the convenient grading in units of 30°) from the bow or the tail of the course arrow to the wind direction...

 

Example: plane course 30° with wind from 340° would be "front left 50°" and so on..

[Lusekofte]

In this "game" you do not have to calculate IAS or hight over target, like in COD . In your bomb display you see your speed over terrain and altitude over target. The wind degree input is degrees from your nose, so if you fly 270 degrees (west) and wind come from 90 degrees you will over shoot your target at high altitude if you do not set wind. In this case you will have to set wind direction to 180 degrees and a middle value on the wind. I recommend you to practice in campaign mode offline. after some sorties you can manage it

Edited November 18, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte

[F/JG300_Gruber]

In this "game" you do not have to calculate IAS or hight over target, like in COD . In your bomb display you see your speed over terrain and altitude over target. The wind degree input is degrees from your nose, so if you fly 270 degrees (west) and wind come from 90 degrees you will over shoot your target at high altitude if you do not set wind. In this case you will have to set wind direction to 180 degrees and a middle value on the wind. I recommend you to practice in campaign mode offline. after some sorties you can manage it

 

Small correction, it displays your speed over terrain, and altitude above sea level. You still have to adjust for the target height.

[Lusekofte]

Small correction, it displays your speed over terrain, and altitude above sea level. You still have to adjust for the target height.

 

Yes but there is no need you hit the mark by ignoring that fact

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Yes but there is no need you hit the mark by ignoring that fact

 

Agreed but once the Kuban mountains show up, it will probably be a different story.

So better be accurate in the comments, even if it is of no use right now  

[tale]

The manual here http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17572-il2-user-manual/ in page 35 states  "Bombsight Altitude: sets your aircraft’s altitude above the target (not altitude above sea level)" yet you say its altitude above sea level.  I wonder who is right

[Shepherd]

It's definitely altitude above the target. But the influence between this and sea level is rather small on our current maps. On top of that it's much more important to set the correct speed than altitude. When doing high altitude bombing from 5000m or higher +/- 5km/h mistake have a much greater influence than correct speed and +/- 200m mistake in altitude setting. Do watch your needle carefully...

[tale]

And by "altitude above target" it means above ground level? because in a multiplayer server I don't tell anyone what my target is, I keep it a secret until the very last moment :-)

[BMA_FlyingShark]

On 11/29/2016 at 3:23 PM, tale said:

And by "altitude above target" it means above ground level?

I've been wondering since day 1 how to know the altitude of targets, in multiplayer it usually isn't in the briefing.

Therefor I made this suggestion:

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

[JG7_RudeRaptor]

For the sake of anyone who is not aware...there smart phone app for calculating wind angle.

 

[SidtheGit]

During one of the recent covid visitations and having to stay at home I found I had even more time on my hands. I tidied up/updated my flying paperwork and thought....hmmm....I have a table with figures on it for calculating the Wind Angle for level bombing....what about a hand held calculator!

 

I printed off a basic compass and the wind angle dial found in the IL2 bombsight and found a filing clip used for keeping paperwork together. The compass is used to enter the aircraft heading and wind direction. Enter the aircraft heading using the red wind angle dial pointer and the the wind direction using the metal clip.

 

On the piccie the aircraft heading is 320 degrees and the wind direction is coming from 010 degrees. The wind angle to enter on the bombsight in this case is 50 degrees to starboard.

 

Works a treat ?

 

 

[JG7_RudeRaptor]

Phone App. Free 

 

[[BSS]Super_Froggy]

I've had some issue with my sighting so I decided to turn on the bombing assist to see how far off I am with my settings and I'm way off! 

 

Here are the details: 

-altitude 5138ft

- air speed 400 km/h

- heading 349 deg

- wind direction 165 deg @ 4m/s

- by calculation wind angle 176 deg --> 349 to 360/0 gives us 11 deg and add 165 gives us 176 deg wind angle

 

I took a screenshot to show how far off the bombsight assist marker is compared to the bombsight... What am I missing? 

- altitude is set to 5100ft 

- airspeed set to 400 

- wind speed 4m/s

- wind angle at 175

 

Playing around with with the airspeed the only way for me to have  the bomb assist to line up with the crosshair I need to drop my speed to 250km/h which doesn't make sense to me since I set my airspeed to my initial speed of 400km/h

 

 

Help would be greatly appreciated

 

 

[IL2Battle]

Just one guess, look your altitude from leftside indicator and correct it to the right side. I think they all work as metric system, otherwise it would be stupid that in one indicator you have to set to be feets and not meters, when indicator which tells your altitude been in meters.

I think it doesn't matter if your aircraft use feets and miles or atleast they should show as like that in bombing table too (leftside).

[[BSS]Super_Froggy]

7 hours ago, IL2Battle said:

Just one guess, look your altitude from leftside indicator and correct it to the right side. I think they all work as metric system, otherwise it would be stupid that in one indicator you have to set to be feets and not meters, when indicator which tells your altitude been in meters.

I think it doesn't matter if your aircraft use feets and miles or atleast they should show as like that in bombing table too (leftside).

 

Boom! that's it. Sometimes you need a pair of fresh eyes to solve problems!

I couldn't figure out what was going on with the altimeter on the bombsight. I just noticed the thousands are at the bottom of the gauge ?‍♂️so I was using gauge in the cockpit that is interestingly in feet in the A-20, and I was wondering why it had a 9000ft range on the bombsight settings hahahaha I feel silly.

 

Thank you! 

Edited January 15, 2023 by [BSS]Super_Froggy
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