Happy election day to the US community

[Finkeren]

Well, election day is upon us, and while I can't say that I envy the American people the choice they are left with, I wish all of you a good election.

 

Your vote will affect the rest of us around the World for bettter or worse, even though we have no say in the matter, so go ahead and use your voice on our behalf.

 

Like Buffy the Vampire Slayer says: You don't have a good choice, but you do have a choice.

 

Hals- und beinbruch.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Finkeren

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Thanks, just glad it will be over tomorrow, so tired of it.

[Cybermat47]

Make it stop.

[Feathered_IV]

They are apparently the two finest examples of leadership that the country has to offer.  What could possibly go wrong?  

[Finkeren]

They are apparently the two finest examples of leadership that the country has to offer. What could possibly go wrong?

Whatever could go wrong, I think already has...

[bzc3lk]

Whatever could go wrong, I think already has...

 

Oh no, it can get far worse. There is always some clown that comes along and raises the bar.

[Feathered_IV]

Oh no, it can get far worse. There is always some clown that comes along and raises the bar.

 

Yeah.  Bloody luftwhiners...  Always raising the bar.   

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Trump has already won....tomorrow the 'pundits' will all be in shock. Many polls were rigged and weighted to undersample certain demographics.

[Finkeren]

Trump has already won....tomorrow the 'pundits' will all be in shock. Many polls were rigged and weighted to undersample certain demographics.

Just like they were back in 2012? Nah, it's prolly gonna be Clinton, though mr. Drumpf has a better shot at it than Rmoney had four years ago.

 

In any case, I couldn't be les thrilled.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Just like they were back in 2012? Nah, it's prolly gonna be Clinton, though mr. Drumpf has a better shot at it than Rmoney had four years ago.

In any case, I couldn't be les thrilled.

 

 

Brexit was exactly the same....

[Finkeren]

Brexit was exactly the same....

No it wasn't. Polls in the two weeks leading up to the referendum showed a virtual tie with a small advantage in favor of leaving the EU.

 

The Brexit victory just ended up being a little bigger than the polls showed.

 

The pundits were surprised, because they couldn't comprehend the posibility of an actual Brexit and therefore ignored the polls. The polls themselves were fairly accurate.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

No it wasn't. Polls in the two weeks leading up to the referendum showed a virtual tie with a small advantage in favor of leaving the EU.

 

The Brexit victory just ended up being a little bigger than the polls showed.

 

The pundits were surprised, because they couldn't comprehend the posibility of an actual Brexit and therefore ignored the polls. The polls themselves were fairly accurate.

 

 

Yes it was, They oversampled the polls partly to make people give up and not vote and also to hide the huge electoral fraud I would estimate at least 500k possibly more fraudulent votes in the referendum. The democrats are doing something similar, they've got dead people voting, illegal immigrants voting, ex-cons are now being allowed to vote and so on and so on. This is something the Labour party in the UK have done for years, just look at the postal votes in the UK....in some places they make up as much as 40%. That is totally fraudulent.

 

 

This election has been my pet project for the last year,  but my real interest stems from the bizarre disconnect the media has developed from reality. Somewhere along the line they simply lost their ability to be honest or do basic research, geopolitically few of them report accurately on the Ukraine crisis or Syria and they appear to have turned in to a propaganda machine or a mouth piece for governments.

 

I didn't really know who Trump was so I'm no fan of him. Everyone laughed when I said he would win the nomination and I was proven right, I also said way back in the year that I believed he would become president so my hat is in the ring.

 

Once thing is for sure we'll see who was right tomorrow

 

**typed fast...I'm working**

 

You should actually read the WikiLeaks....not just the handful of things that make it to the MSM. Quite shocking is the collusion between the Media and the Democrats!

[I/JG27_Rollo]

The pundits were surprised, because they couldn't comprehend the posibility of an actual Brexit and therefore ignored the polls.

I think they believed up to the last moment that "people can't be that stupid" - which appears to be just too optimistic.

(-> before this is received negatively: it's probably being thought on both sides)

 

I find comfort in the fact that, regardless of today's results, we have people here who are making IL-2 great again.

Edited November 8, 2016 by I/JG27_Rollo

[6./ZG26_Emil]

There's nothing stupid about soverignty and self governance

[I/JG27_Rollo]

My edit came a bit late, I see.

Time will tell whether it was a wise decision but that's a discussion for another topic.

[Aap]

 

 

they've got dead people voting

 

I have to say that this is kind of hard to believe. Even for North Korea.

But today (or yesterday) 99 years ago Lenin started a big change in Russia, let's see what happens in America   

[Saurer]

The good think about your poor choice of candidates makes me actually feel less bad of your candidates here in Austria

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I have to say that this is kind of hard to believe. Even for North Korea.

But today (or yesterday) 99 years ago Lenin started a big change in Russia, let's see what happens in America   

 

 

In the UK electoral fraud is fairly significant. They will use any tricks to get votes believe me, one thing they will do is send people to old people's homes to 'help' them fill in their votes...I know for a fact they will use gentle pressure or persuasion to get them to vote for certain parties, my dad was in politics for sometime and it's shocking what went on. Other tactics are bussing people to polling stations, something WikiLeaks has shown to be happening in the US....across states as well because some stations don't ask for ID so people can vote twice.

 

The WikiLeaks has been fascinating stuff regardless of what political spectrum you are on.

[Aap]

Before the discussion starts to heat up here, just a friendly reminder about a certain rule of this forum, too:

 

7. Comments containing ... political and religious discussion and propaganda ... are not allowed and will result in a ban. 

 

Americans can influence things by voting today, but is probably better to keep the debates out of these forums here.

[Aap]

In the UK electoral fraud is fairly significant. They will use any tricks to get votes believe me, one thing they will do is send people to old people's homes to 'help' them fill in their votes...I know for a fact they will use gentle pressure or persuasion to get them to vote for certain parties, my dad was in politics for sometime and it's shocking what went on. Other tactics are bussing people to polling stations, something WikiLeaks has shown to be happening in the US....across states as well because some stations don't ask for ID so people can vote twice.

 

Honestly, I doubt that electoral fraud is significant in western democracies. Gentle pressure, hard pressure, propaganda or even lying - all that happens in politics to persuade people to vote certain way, but very-very hard to believe that it is possible to pre-fill votes or vote twice or have dead people voting, at least not in my country and I doubt that it would be possible in UK or even US. I have to say that from European point of view the American voting system does seem a bit weird on some points, but I am sure that there are observers etc to make sure that things are happening according to laws.

 

With that said, I step out of this conversation due to the previously mentioned rule 7 of these forums.

[Feathered_IV]

I think at the last minute so many people will choke on the idea of voting for a woman that they will end up handing their country to an oafish autocrat with no respect for the principles of democracy.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I don't think people will choke because she is a woman.

[Finkeren]

I think at the last minute so many people will choke on the idea of voting for a woman that they will end up handing their country to an oafish autocrat with no respect for the principles of democracy.

You really think a lot of people are like that?

 

I think history so far has shown the opposite. When a country has a woman on the ballot for a highest office for the first time, she ends up winning more often than not. We've seen it a lot of times: Indira Gandhi, Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel and Helle Thorning Schmidt here in Denmark just to name some off the top of my head.

 

There are many, many good reasons for people to reject Clinton as president. Her sex isn't one of them.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Finkeren

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Depends who who is in control of that sovereignty and self governance.

 

That would be the people wouldn't it? That's how democracy works....

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Geez, such a discussion. My favorite kind of discussions Should I enter or get back to testing Yak .... 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Honestly, I doubt that electoral fraud is significant in western democracies. Gentle pressure, hard pressure, propaganda or even lying - all that happens in politics to persuade people to vote certain way, but very-very hard to believe that it is possible to pre-fill votes or vote twice or have dead people voting, at least not in my country and I doubt that it would be possible in UK or even US. I have to say that from European point of view the American voting system does seem a bit weird on some points, but I am sure that there are observers etc to make sure that things are happening according to laws.

 

With that said, I step out of this conversation due to the previously mentioned rule 7 of these forums.

 

If you are interested I can dig up many many cases...

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Oh boy. Not the finest moment in the history of democracy. But that's okay, because Jill Stein is going to pull off the biggest political upset in history, right? Right??? Please wake me up from this nightmare

 

Wrong :D

 

Lol

 

Good debate?

 

If you prefer unelected bureaucrat that's fine, they might be nice unelected bureaucrat but one day they may be replaced by really bad ones....then you are stuffed.

 

I'd prefer that we can continue to elect MPs and hold their toes to the fire if they don't represent the peoples wishes....I can't see what's LOL about that.

[Brano]

Oh,theres an election in US? Does it mean that people get a day-off? In Slovakia we plan such folk events for Saturday's,so we can get ourselves drunk in the evening watching politics eagerly awaiting the results. usually after midnight most of votes are counted but I usually hardly remember that.I mostly wake up with hangover on Sunday at my parents house (elections are a family event in Slovakia) hearing my dad cursing at TV :D

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I'm lolling because it is a flippant comment that you take so seriously. I'm not going to debate politics because it is against forum rules, and I don't believe anything constructive comes of it on a web forum anyway. So, yes, I lol.

 

I do take democracy seriously...only an idiot wouldn't

Oh,theres an election in US? Does it mean that people get a day-off? In Slovakia we plan such folk events for Saturday's,so we can get ourselves drunk in the evening watching politics eagerly awaiting the results. usually after midnight most of votes are counted but I usually hardly remember that.I mostly wake up with hangover on Sunday at my parents house (elections are a family event in Slovakia) hearing my dad cursing at TV :D

 

Yeh midnight UK time is when some of the really important states on the east coast declare I think.

 

Probably best just going to bed as normal lol I was up till 5am during the Brexit referendum :D

 

It will be fascinating to see what has happened tomorrow though, this has been the biggest election campaign in my life time, maybe ever?

[Feathered_IV]

You really think a lot of people are like that?

 

I really hope not. People do funny things sometimes though st the last minute.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I really hope not. People do funny things sometimes though st the last minute.

 

Like not bother going to vote at all...and I have a sneaking feeling that this might be the case for Clinton.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Oh,theres an election in US? Does it mean that people get a day-off?

 

 

Doesnt seem to me. It's Merica, it has to be different from the rest of the world

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I wonder which states are the ones people are most interested in...Michigan could be a massive surprise win for Trump. Would that be the first time for decades? Florida is very close possibly swinging towards Trump.

 

Where else could there be big upsets?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

My friends were saying that Trump/Clinton are head to head in Ohio and if Trump looses it, then he cant really win this election. Not sure if that is accurate but I'd add Ohio to the list. 

[707shap_Srbin]

I am hardly waiting not US elections, but day after tomorrow - planned final offensive in Aleppo. Time to finish all this sh#t.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Democracy The God That Failed by H. H. Hoppe -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:_The_God_That_Failed

While I dont agree with authors vision of natural order, the way he describes democracy pretty much fits the modern problems we do have. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by =LD=Hiromachi

[Legioneod]

I would vote third party but I'm not sure if I should. I don't like either of the main candidates but I really don't like Hillary.

Scary times.

The majority of the US doesn't vote, If only we could get them to vote third party and get through this mess.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Giggle

 

I think a lot of people will be laughing tomorrow  

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Democracy The God That Failed by H. H. Hoppe -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:_The_God_That_Failed

While I dont agree with authors vision of natural order, the way he describes democracy pretty much fits the modern problems we do have. 

 

 

I think there is an argument that a democratic government needs more reliance on propaganda...case in point would be 'no fly zones' in Libya which were really a bombing campaign, or WMD Iraq. An authoritarian government doesn't need a mandate from parliament or even the people.

[Brano]

I like this man way of thinking.Leo Szilard.

 

Even if we accept, as the basic tenet of true democracy, that one moron is equal to one genius, is it necessary to go a further step and hold that two morons are better than one genius?