109e7 Weapon Damage Bug or PE-2 Durability Bug

[[TWB]Pand]

109e7 vs Pe-2 during Tactical Air War Tour 4, Map 1.

 

I feel this is a pretty good representation of the amount of damage PE-2's can absorb with the current damage model.  After reviewing the logs, this PE-2 RTB'd and landed successfully.

 

There is a bug somewhere in here (I'll bold the ones I think are issues)  either:

The e7's guns are too weak.

The PE-2 is too durable.

The e7's airframe is too weak.
I-16 guns are too powerful.
I-16 airframe is too durable (I experienced similar results when attacking I-16s with the the e7's 20mm MGFF---- 15mm on F-2 is far more effective at downing aircraft than 20mm).

 

 

Hope this helps you make a better game.  Salute!

[L3Pl4K]

Could you send the sortie log?

[Zygiert]

IMO there is something wrong with the damage model especially in regarding to hitting fuselage. Looks like russian planes can take more damage than german.

If you hit the engine effect is more or less the same, but if you're hitting wings, fuselage it's in favor of russians

 

Maybe german HE rounds are modeled differently and are exploding before hitting the target, or too late after it penetrates through?

[Hutzlipuh]

Maybe german HE rounds are modeled differently and are exploding before hitting the target, or too late after it penetrates through?

 

 

sounds like a pretty reasonable assumption to me

[[TWB]Pand]

Could you send the sortie log?

Unfortunately I can't --- it's already rolled off on TAW, or at least I don't know how to see anything that's not in my last 30 flyouts.  

[Monostripezebra]

Well, the damage some planes take is very aspect related, ie from some angles it does only takes a handfull of bullets and from other sides it takes tons and tons of shots... the Pe2 is very durable in the fuselage and central wing section from behing, but the wingtips and tailfins fall off easy. The 109e and Mc202 are very bullet resistant head on, you do get black engine smoke easy, but after that they will soak of tons and tons of bullets.

 

 

And then there are also the dreadned network effects of damage not beeing applied...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XuhuL3hVe4

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Unfortunately I can't --- it's already rolled off on TAW, or at least I don't know how to see anything that's not in my last 30 flyouts.  

Here is the link to the sortie: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3402&name=[TWB]Pand

[[TWB]Pand]

Here is the link to the sortie: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=3402&name=[TWB]Pand

Thanks Kathon!

[[TWB]Pand]

I'm not sure exactly how to read the damage log --- is this saying that each of my cannon rounds did 1% damage or less (0.6%)?

 

This would indicate I would need somewhere between 100 and 200 cannon hits to successfully destroy the aircraft?

[[TWB]80hd]

IMO there is something wrong with the damage model especially in regarding to hitting fuselage. Looks like russian planes can take more damage than german.

If you hit the engine effect is more or less the same, but if you're hitting wings, fuselage it's in favor of russians

 

Maybe german HE rounds are modeled differently and are exploding before hitting the target, or too late after it penetrates through?

 

If this is the case, it would go a long way toward explaining the number of dead-six o'clock PKs and raging infernos we're getting... and maybe network latency plays a part as well, as even in the replays we're seeing what appears to be the first round, to the back of the craft, annihilating said craft/pilot.

[coconut]

I'm not sure exactly how to read the damage log --- is this saying that each of my cannon rounds did 1% damage or less (0.6%)?

 

This would indicate I would need somewhere between 100 and 200 cannon hits to successfully destroy the aircraft?

 

Maybe that's what you need to turn it into confetti, but usually planes (even soviet ones) stop flying before that stage

[GridiroN]

The German 151/15 & 20 have felt overly week for quite some time. Whilst the Soviet 23mm should be stronger, glancing hits from even 1 23mm usually leave a 109 with several broken systems, whilst a 20mm hitting a mostly wooden Russian fighter seems to cause negligible damage to internals, let alone the flight model...

 

As far as the durability of the PE2 goes, I'm not against a plane being a brute, but the PE2 can legitimately fly for many dozens of KM spewing black, and the only way to register an immediate kill against one seems to be to kill the pilot or shoot off it's wing. I think the engine's durability needs to be reinvestigated, but again, I'm not against the PE2 just being a highly survivable plane. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by GridiroN

[[TWB]Pand]

Maybe that's what you need to turn it into confetti, but usually planes (even soviet ones) stop flying before that stage

That's about what I threw at the Pe2 in the video

[KoN_]

I'm not sure exactly how to read the damage log --- is this saying that each of my cannon rounds did 1% damage or less (0.6%)?

 

This would indicate I would need somewhere between 100 and 200 cannon hits to successfully destroy the aircraft?

Funny you should say that .

Three 109 with 20mm attacked Pe-2 .

Pe-2 took 22 hits too bring down and  my 109 took three hits to instant kill me..!  and this is when Pe-2 was smoking and leaking after taking 17 hits already from other 109s .

Flying with front armour glass . 

Edited November 9, 2016 by II./JG77_Con

[Dakpilot]

The German 151/15 & 20 have felt overly week for quite some time. Whilst the Soviet 23mm should be stronger, glancing hits from even 1 23mm usually leave a 109 with several broken systems, whilst a 20mm hitting a mostly wooden Russian fighter seems to cause negligible damage to internals, let alone the flight model...

 

As far as the durability of the PE2 goes, I'm not against a plane being a brute, but the PE2 can legitimately fly for many dozens of KM spewing black, and the only way to register an immediate kill against one seems to be to kill the pilot or shoot off it's wing. I think the engine's durability needs to be reinvestigated, but again, I'm not against the PE2 just being a highly survivable plane. 

 

One wooden (wonder) aircraft carried a larger bomb load than B-17 for a greater distance, was used as carrier based torpedo A/C, fitted with 57mm A/T gun, used in low level bombing/shipping and ground attack amongst other high risk roles.

 

As far as I know it did not have a reputation for being fragile (one of the lowest loss rate) or weaker than its contemporaries, if anything the opposite, lower long term service life  notwithstanding

 

I am in no way disputing anything, but the general perception of wood/aviation composite as weak, is perhaps too high 

 

Is there anyway of confirming how many hits are from cannon and from MG? this will give better evidence to prove issue/bug with 109E it is easy to get MG hits and miss with cannon (not saying this was happening)

 

Maybe an unarmed Pe-2 quick mission with only cannon fired fighter could give some results which are quantifiable 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[E69_geramos109]

Wow zebra there is a problem with that 109. You hit him a couple of times with your gun and with the gunner to finally crash with him and nothing happens.... Also 41 p2 is weaker than the 42 one

 

Here you have other video.

 

 

As you can see i was fast on the first attacks to evade gunner. After that i tried to hit the center of the plane with a long brust to see if i can kill the gunner. All my hits were near the tail part enought concentrated fire to cut off the tail. But after that he only has some holes on the skin.

I spent all my Mg151 rounds but i know he still can back his lines so on the last run only with machine guns i take the risk and i close a lot aiming to his last engine running. Of corse he hits me but i was near the base so i could get home.

Edited November 11, 2016 by E69_geramos109

[[TWB]Pand]

 

 

 

Yeah that's obscene the amount of hits on the tail section.   I don't understand why this hasn't been addressed. :/

[ShamrockOneFive]

From the tracks you guys are showing I'm starting to wonder if attacking from dead six is causing a problem with the explosive power. This is pure conjecture but what if the explosive round hits, does minimal damage from the actual round hitting, and then when the explosive round is supposed to then do immediate damage, its not and the damage zone is occurring behind the aircraft rather than hitting it.

 

P.S. Delta-lumber aircraft construction is fairly robust and able to absorb damage. Its a wood-plastic composite baked at high pressure. It's not like they just cut down a tree and slapped it on the side of the plane.

[E69_geramos109]

There is also a bug with the distance and the explosive minen rounds. Each hundred meters the round lose an absurd amount of power. He rounds should be not afected by the lose of speed from the bullet but on the game you can test by your own the number of hits you need from a close distance and from far. The difference is absurd. 

Devs have to change that. This isue is ruining the game but they are focusing repairing other less important things. 

 

People allways ask why germans lose in all the servers. Ok that is one of the reasons (not only). To shot down a russian in one pass you have to be a real ace with a great gunnery skill or to wear gun-pods. By red is enought to shot that lasers and you will see the wing ripped off, all the tail surfaces ripped of at the same time and cracy things like that. (other thing that i dont understand, because there is not a huge difference on muzzle velocity between the two guns but one is normal and the other is a laser)

Edited November 13, 2016 by E69_geramos109

[GridiroN]

There is also a bug with the distance and the explosive minen rounds. Each hundred meters the round lose an absurd amount of power. He rounds should be not afected by the lose of speed from the bullet but on the game you can test by your own the number of hits you need from a close distance and from far. The difference is absurd. 

Devs have to change that. This isue is ruining the game but they are focusing repairing other less important things. 

 

People allways ask why germans lose in all the servers. Ok that is one of the reasons (not only). To shot down a russian in one pass you have to be a real ace with a great gunnery skill or to wear gun-pods. By red is enought to shot that lasers and you will see the wing ripped off, all the tail surfaces ripped of at the same time and cracy things like that. (other thing that i dont understand, because there is not a huge difference on muzzle velocity between the two guns but one is normal and the other is a laser)

 

Put in a support ticket or talk to one of the mods here perhaps? I doubt they'll change the game purely from this thread.