What planes were in this conflict?

[Moebelwagen]

Actually the list for the Luftwaffe goes as:

 

Bf 109 F-4

Bf 109 G-2

Ju 87 D (-1 and -3 IIRC)

He 111 H (-4 and -6)

Ju 88 A-4

Bf 110 F-4

Bf 109 E-7

 

Plus recon, transport and liaison aircraft such as Ju 52, Storch, Fw 189 etc and of course the aircraft of the Romanians and the Italians. Don't have time to check my books ATM, though. But no Fw 190 ... that one never was at Stalingrad.

 

For the VVS it's pretty much what FSM said, apart from the Yak-9 which had it's combat debut at the end of the Stalingrad campaign but only in very limited numbers. There was a fighter division operating Hurricanes and some P-40s were mentioned in BC/RS 3, too, but I don't know how many and what exact sub-type. L&L types certainly weren't that big at Stalingrad. Mostly it were the Yak-1 Model 1942, the single-seat Il-2 and Pe-2s. These made up the lion's share.

 

 

Oh la la: the Fw-189A! This tactical reconaissance plane was never modelled so far in any flight sim - as long as I can remember. This would be very nice, although I doubt it will be appear in BOS as flyable. The list of other planes that come first is just too long

[II./JG27_Rich]

We are into 1943 so FW 190s should be involved and 109s should almost be up to G2's in Feb.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

Edited December 13, 2012 by Richie

[=RvE=Windmills]

We are into 1943 so FW 190s should be involved

 

 

But at the expense of fighters (or more variants) that were more commonly in use?

Edited December 13, 2012 by iLOVEwindmills

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

I'll be super happy to be slain with great frequency in an I-16 and/or I-153... Will surely have fun with the P-39 as well!

Edited December 13, 2012 by surfimp

[II./JG27_Rich]

But at the expense of fighters (or more variants) that were more commonly in use?

What I would do windmills is look for pictures of JG 54 in that period of time and see if they are using FW 190s yet. JG 54 used FW 190s quite extensively others like JG 52, 27, 77 never did.

[LukeFF]

What I would do windmills is look for pictures of JG 54 in that period of time and see if they are using FW 190s yet. JG 54 used FW 190s quite extensively others like JG 52, 27, 77 never did.

 

JG54 didn't start using 190s until after Stalingrad.

[FlatSpinMan]

If csThor has posted that FWs weren't in use at Stalingrad, then FWs weren't in use at Stalingrad.

[Faustnik]

And finally for the Fw 190 ... the closest (distance-wise) a Fw 190 ever came to Stalingrad was a posting of a Staffel of ground-attack Fw 190s to Anapa in spring of 1943.

Great info! What unit? What day?

 

I've been looking for this for a long time.

 

JG 51 was to the west of Moscow, Orel and Vyasma.

 

JG 54 and JG 26 were towards Leningrad.

 

???

 

I also can't find Cobra unit in Stalingrad.

 

102 IAD had Hurris and P-40s but, no P-39s.

 

???

Edited December 13, 2012 by Faustnik

[II./JG27_Rich]

If csThor has posted that FWs weren't in use at Stalingrad, then FWs weren't in use at Stalingrad.

I agree with that.

[MiloMorai]

I would suggest some of you look at this site, http://www.ww2.dk/ if you want to know what a/c were available and where for the Luftwaffe.

[SYN_Ricky]

I/JG51 was the first unit to operate the FW190 on the Eastern Front from September '42 first on the Leningrad Front and then near Vyazma. The rest of JG51 (except II Gruppe who went to North Africa, minus 6 Staffel) followed in late '42- early'43 along with JG54, but all stayed on the Northern/Central Sector.

 

So indeed the FW190 is not part of the Battle of Stalingrad, as csThor said only some ground-attack unit came near in March '43, after BOS was already finished.

 

I don't say I don't want to see the FW190 (I really do in fact), but if they stick to a historic planeset it would not be released at first...

 

Parts of JG51 and JG 54 then participated in Citadel, in that operation the FW190 would indeed fit perfectly.

Edited December 13, 2012 by SYN_Ricky

[csThor]

Great info! What unit? What day?

 

I've been looking for this for a long time.

IIRC it was a Staffel of II./SchG 1, www.ww2.dk gives Anapa as base between April 1943 and July 2 1943 for the Gruppe but IIRC only 1 Staffel had Fw 190s and two Staffeln had the Hs 129 and operated as tank buster. Edited December 13, 2012 by csThor

[FlatSpinMan]

You still freak me out, csThor.

[csThor]

Excellent.

Edited December 13, 2012 by csThor

[SlipBall]

Great info! What unit? What day?

 

I've been looking for this for a long time.

 

JG 51 was to the west of Moscow, Orel and Vyasma.

 

JG 54 and JG 26 were towards Leningrad.

 

???

 

I also can't find Cobra unit in Stalingrad.

 

102 IAD had Hurris and P-40s but, no P-39s.

 

???

 

Yes seems difficult to gain any information on the P-39 in this battle. Next I will try to look at the individual pilot success history for clues, when I find the time to do so. I know that the pilots were very good at exploiting this aircrafts strong points, look here faust

http://acepilots.com/planes/p39_airacobra.html

 

Edited December 13, 2012 by SlipBall

[addman]

The Hs-123 should be modeled, pwitty pweeeaaase!

 

[Faustnik]

Yes seems difficult to gain any information on the P-39 in this battle. Next I will try to look at the individual pilot success history for clues, when I find the time to do so. I know that the pilots were very good at exploiting this aircrafts strong points, look here faust

http://acepilots.com/planes/p39_airacobra.html

Thanks you guys. 

 

I will keep working where all the P-39 units from late 1942 to early 1943.

 

I would like to see Fw190A3 and Fw190A4s in the Eastern from in a new game but, as a upgread.

[4./JG53_Wotan]

I would question any VVS OOB that includes the MiG-3 at Stalingrad - guys asking for it or expecting it may want to look into that.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Weren't most Mig 3s part of Moscow PVO by this point?

[4./JG53_Wotan]

Thanks you guys. 

 

I will keep working where all the P-39 units from late 1942 to early 1943.

 

I would like to see Fw190A3 and Fw190A4s in the Eastern from in a new game but, as a upgread.

Its been a while since I read these articles but you may find them informative:

 

Soviet Lend-Lease:

 

P-39:

 

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/index.htm

 

P-40:

 

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-40/index.htm

 

Hurricane:

 

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricanes/index.htm

[SlipBall]

Its been a while since I read these articles but you may find them informative:

 

Soviet Lend-Lease:

 

P-39:

 

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-39/index.htm

 

P-40:

 

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-40/index.htm

 

Hurricane:

 

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricanes/index.htm

Very good information source Wotan, thanks! 

[SYN_Ricky]

There were also several Boston units operating in the VVS from the early summer of '42. Not sure if there were any engaged during the battle itself though.

Edited December 14, 2012 by SYN_Ricky

[NZTyphoon]

Looking at the start of 'Case Blue' proper as of Sept/Aug 1942 the following aircraft were used.

 

Russian:

 

Lagg-3

Yak-1, Yak-7B

La-5

P-40

Mig-3

I-16, I-153

Hurricane

Il-2

Su-2

Pe-2

SB

R-5

DB-3

U-2

 

German

 

Bf109 F4, Bf109 G2, Bf109 E

Bf 110

Fw 189A

HS 126

HS 123

HS 129

Ju 88

Do 215

Do 17

He 111

Ju 87B, D and R

 

Info from 'Black Cross Red Star, Everything for Stalingrad'

 

Germany: He 177, albeit in limited numbers, and Fw 200s were also involved in running supply missions. I thought VVS P-39s would be involved but the link via Wotan shows otherwise...pity.

Edited December 15, 2012 by NZTyphoon

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'm really hoping for some P 40s.

 

Many Russian pilots considered them their first "modern" aircraft.

[4./JG53_Wotan]

Germany: He 177, albeit in limited numbers, and Fw 200s were also involved in running supply missions. I thought VVS P-39s would be involved but the link via Wotan shows otherwise...pity.

 

 

More info. here:

 

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=114464#p1010405

[Freycinet]

Oh la la: the Fw-189A! This tactical reconaissance plane was never modelled so far in any flight sim - as long as I can remember. This would be very nice, although I doubt it will be appear in BOS as flyable. The list of other planes that come first is just too long

It is in Il-2 since the beginning, although not as a flyable. The ultimate greenhouse, could be fun to fly, but of course there'll never be a cockpit for it...

[=IRFC=Huetz]

It is in Il-2 since the beginning, although not as a flyable. The ultimate greenhouse, could be fun to fly, but of course there'll never be a cockpit for it...

 

Seeing as the player controlled Recon/Artillery Spotting Missions from RoF would put that FW-189 to good (player controlled) use we may actually see it one day. The interface/code for doing that with the DN engine would be there already.

[Freycinet]

Ah, good point Huetz! - Well, bring it on! I'd buy it.

[Seacondor]

I personally would like to see the Hs123 be included in the flyable planes. The sim needs a few new types to make it stand out from the rest, otherwise there is little point in spending your money.

I made a Hs123 in CFS3 and found it real useful and interesting to fly. The other one is the Ju52. Once again that was and interesting plane to fly into the battle. I made one for cfs3 and made some Stalingrad missions with a help from a friend. It was intense getting in and out alive. Still I don't expect a flyable Ju52. But a Hs123 would be nice.

[Kongo-Otto]

Well, if they somehow manage to simulate the huge operational difficulties the Germans had (Russian winter, muddy fields, technical support difficulties, etc, etc) then it won't be quite as one-sided...

 

Otherwise the Russians had the same problem with General Winter and Colonel Mud maybe not in the same size but they had them too.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Kongo-Otto

[JG1_Pragr]

About the 109F-4.

 

Not a single JG participated in Stalingrad during the period intended for the future BoS (JG52 and JG3, parts of JG53 and 77 were transfered to Mediterranean during October 1942) used 109F-4. All units were reequiped with G-2s most of them since July/August of 1942.

See http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bjagd.htm

Edited January 14, 2013 by JG1_Pragr

[csThor]

*cough*

 

See III./JG 3. They still had F-4 until December 1942.

[JG1_Pragr]

Ups, sorry. My fault. 

 

On the other hand it's about how many of F-4s? Between 14-23 planes (the game period started 19.11.1942). No doubt G-2 was the mainstay of JGs equipment at the Uranus beggining and became the only fighter during December.

 

There is one problem with F-4 performance in these period I think. Since the beggining the F-4's engine DB601E was limited with "Steig und Kampfleistung" setting (1.3ata/2500rpm). With these performance F-4 made 635km/h at 6km. But from June 1942 it was allowed to "Start und N???

Edited January 14, 2013 by JG1_Pragr

[VaeTibi]

I am missing the big birds. No one has mentioned the FW 200 the Ju 290 the Ju 86 the He 177 all where there at Stalingrad, instead there is debate how aircraft that at best where only near Stalingrad can be added.

I do hope it will not be same procedure as with every sim fighters, fighters fighters. Multi engine aircraft just a waste of time.

Make it realistic and I am a customer.

Edited January 14, 2013 by VaeTibi

[4./JG53_Wotan]

From 19 November 1942 (start of Op. Uranus) until December 1942 (end of Op. Winter Storm) overall LW day fighter strength was low (all Bf 109s) - 23 Bf 109 F-4 would be a measurable percentage of that strength. The Bf 109 F-4 should be included. It probably will be included anyway if they can use some of the models they were working on for BoM.

 

Also, I am not at home to check my books but I am almost certain 13.(slow.)/JG 52 were in action at this time and were equipped with Bf 109 Es. Someone can verify this for me if they have the MMP book, "13.(slow.)/JG 52" (the author's name escapes me..).

 

People will always argue about performance and these performance arguments should not be a reason to exclude any plane. The only thing that should matter is if the aircraft was there or not.

[4./JG53_Wotan]

I am missing the big birds. No one has mentioned the FW 200 the Ju 290 the Ju 86 the He 177 all where there at Stalingrad, instead there is debate how aircraft that at best where only near Stalingrad can be added.

I do hope it will not be same procedure as with every sim fighters, fighters fighters. Multi engine aircraft just a waste of time.

Make it realistic and I am a customer.

Those planes you listed were only used as heavy transports. If you are advocating their use as bombers for BoS then that would not be "realistic". Since this is an "air combat" game there probably won't be a lot of players calling out for those types of aircraft. Believe it or not in an "air combat" game most players actaully prefer air combat.

Edited January 14, 2013 by 4./JG53_Wotan

[MarcoRossolini]

Forget all these highpowered nonsense, give me a U-2 anyday, though perhaps with a smattering of Ju-52s on the side (for the airlift).

[FTC_Karaya]

There is one problem with F-4 performance in these period I think. Since the beggining the F-4's engine DB601E was limited with "Steig und Kampfleistung" setting (1.3ata/2500rpm). With these performance F-4 made 635km/h at 6km. But from June 1942 it was allowed to "Start und N???

Edited January 14, 2013 by JG52Karaya

[VaeTibi]

Those planes you listed were only used as heavy transports. If you are advocating their use as bombers for BoS then that would not be "realistic". Since this is an "air combat" game there probably won't be a lot of players calling out for those types of aircraft. Believe it or not in an "air combat" game most players actaully prefer air combat.

What is wrong with transports? A Ju 290 was never anything but a transport, and planes like the FW200 and the He177 where used as bombers in other theaters.

Believe it or not there are people who find unrealistic fur balls the most boring thing to waste time on.

[csThor]

Also, I am not at home to check my books but I am almost certain 13.(slow.)/JG 52 were in action at this time and were equipped with Bf 109 Es. Someone can verify this for me if they have the MMP book, "13.(slow.)/JG 52" (the author's name escapes me..).

If I am not totally mistaken both the slovakian and the croatian Staffel within JG 52 served on the coast of the Black Sea - a long way from the map limits we've been told.