What planes were in this conflict?

[W1ndy]

I'm a WW2 noob but love it.  Now I'd like to know which aircraft we should expect to see in the initial line up ?

 

Assuming , lets say ,  8  staring aircraft in the release. What would they be ?

 

I'm going to go  Ju87 Stuka of course,

 

and I saw

 

Romanian IAR 80 fighter plane  on wikipedia

Edited December 11, 2012 by W1ndy

[FlatSpinMan]

I'm no expert but off the top of my head:

 

Axis

 

Bf109G4

Fw190A4

He111?

Ju87D

Bf110?

 

VVS

Yak 1 & 9

Pe2

IL2 - single and double seat versions

La-5

 

Earlier on, maybe I-16.

 

What else?

 

 

[csThor]

Actually the list for the Luftwaffe goes as:

 

Bf 109 F-4

Bf 109 G-2

Ju 87 D (-1 and -3 IIRC)

He 111 H (-4 and -6)

Ju 88 A-4

Bf 110 F-4

Bf 109 E-7

 

Plus recon, transport and liaison aircraft such as Ju 52, Storch, Fw 189 etc and of course the aircraft of the Romanians and the Italians. Don't have time to check my books ATM, though. But no Fw 190 ... that one never was at Stalingrad.

 

For the VVS it's pretty much what FSM said, apart from the Yak-9 which had it's combat debut at the end of the Stalingrad campaign but only in very limited numbers. There was a fighter division operating Hurricanes and some P-40s were mentioned in BC/RS 3, too, but I don't know how many and what exact sub-type. L&L types certainly weren't that big at Stalingrad. Mostly it were the Yak-1 Model 1942, the single-seat Il-2 and Pe-2s. These made up the lion's share.

Edited December 11, 2012 by csThor

[W1ndy]

Is that looking like a very one-sided fight ?

[Freycinet]

Pretty sure the Russians flew quite a few Western models too: Hurricanes, P-39s, perhaps Spits? But maybe not precisely at Stalingrad?

[csThor]

It was. If you can find it try to get "Black Cross - Red Star Vol 3" which provides a very good overview over the air war during Operation "Blue" and the initial phase of Stalingrad. To put it bluntly at first it was a real massacre ... especially since many soviet pilots were raw rookiees who faced a considerable number of german veterans and aces. The VVS suffered accordingly ...

[W1ndy]

It was. If you can find it try to get "Black Cross - Red Star Vol 3" which provides a very good overview over the air war during Operation "Blue" and the initial phase of Stalingrad. To put it bluntly at first it was a real massacre ... especially since many soviet pilots were raw rookiees who faced a considerable number of german veterans and aces. The VVS suffered accordingly ...

 

That's what I thought having just been reading Beevor's The Second World War.

 

This presents some problems then , and begs the question, why Stalingrad?

[JediMaster]

Recognizable name. Even non-WWII experts know it.

 

As for plane set, I'd say look at the first 2001 Il-2 release and pick the best known of those. Forget seeing 45 109 variants, we'll get the major ones.

[Freycinet]

Well, if they somehow manage to simulate the huge operational difficulties the Germans had (Russian winter, muddy fields, technical support difficulties, etc, etc) then it won't be quite as one-sided...

[Juri_JS]

Here the most important aircraft operated by the Italians and Romanians in the area in 1942/1943, although I am not sure, how many missions were flown over Stalingrad itself.

Romania aircraft:

Bf-109E
IAR 80/81
He-111
and maybe a few Blenheim I and Savoia-Marchetti SM.79B

Italia aircraft:

Macchi 200
Macchi 202
Fiat BR.20
Caproni Ca.311
Savoia-Marchetti SM.81

a few CANT Z.1007bis

Edited December 11, 2012 by Juri_JS

[DD_fruitbat]

La 5 will be reds most common plane online me thinks, lol.

 

its a very capable plane against the Luftwaffe offerings.

[Avimimusold]

I just want the Mig-3, Il-4 and FW-189... however, it'll probably be a while before we see them. I believe they were all still active in 1942.

[Mac_Messer]

apart from the Yak-9 which had it's combat debut at the end of the Stalingrad campaign but only in very limited numbers. There was a fighter division operating Hurricanes and some P-40s were mentioned in BC/RS 3, too, but I don't know how many and what exact sub-type. L&L types certainly weren't that big at Stalingrad. Mostly it were the Yak-1 Model 1942, the single-seat Il-2 and Pe-2s. These made up the lion's share.

"Limited numbers" usually means they will find their way into an online war. At least such a small detail never stopped the admins from doing that.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Give me a P 40 and I'll be a happy BlitzPig.

 

An I-153 would be cool as well.

[exhausted]

Well, it wouldn't be Il-2 without the Lerche!!!!

[VO101Tom]

The Royal Hungarian Air Force fought below Voronezh, 500 km north-west of stalingrad. The russian Little-Saturn surrounding operation broke the german front somewhere here, so it's part of the battle of Stalingrad, just far from the city. 

 

RHAF used this planes:

Long reconnaissance: 4 He-111P 
Short reconnaissance: 12 He-46 
Fighter: 22 M????VAG H???

Edited December 12, 2012 by VO101_Tom

[=RvE=Windmills]

"Limited numbers" usually means they will find their way into an online war. At least such a small detail never stopped the admins from doing that.

 

 

More fun then being perpetually butchered when you pick one side.

[Feathered_IV]

Po-2 would be a welcome addition too.

[exhausted]

Yes!

[FlatSpinMan]

The Romanians used the lovely He112 down south in '41. Were any in use in Stalingrad?

[W1ndy]

No Focke Wulf hits hard.   I've been hoping for a 777 Focke Wulf for a long time.  Maybe the devs will have a relaxed definition of 'Stalingrad'

[ShamrockOneFive]

Russian aircraft would include a mix of Yak-1 models, Yak-7 models (including the late with cutdown canopy that resembles the Yak-9), MiG-3, IL-2, Pe-2, Su-2, and LaGG-3 and even La-5s at the end of the battle. Yak-9s also arrived in early 1943.

 

It's a really interesting time for the Russian side. The Germans were in their prime and the VVS was in significant transition. At the start of the battle they were under equipped with equipment not competitive with the Luftwaffe's and both tactics and training that were inferior. They were still flying 3 plane Vic style formations. By January 1943 they had requipped with much better aircraft and changed tactics (adopting the German rotte/finger four/etc. with wingman and leader).

 

If the time period they adopt goes a bit past Stalingrad with the mopping up... we might see FW190 interaction. But yeah the majorit here is an all 109 show. With tired F-4s and lots of new G-2s entering into the fray.

[BlitzPig_EL]

That late Yak 7 might prove an interesting plane to fly.  Perhaps the best one in that mix for the VVS.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

What was the Russian plane peeking through the curtains of the ROF lobby? I-16? How would one of those fit in?

Edited December 12, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[Pharoah]

I just want the ORIGINAL aircraft that started this game...the IL-2 Sturmovik. can't forget that one.

[slm]

What about Hs-123?  It was used, but not in large numbers.

 

I like some of these planes that were mostly used during the first years of WW2.

[SYN_Ricky]

I-16 and I-153 were still used (mostly for ground attack duties) at the time of Stalingrad, now I don't know if there were units equipped with those planes in the Stalingrad area.

 

Definitely no FW-190 on the Stalingrad front, as they were just starting to appear on the Northern/Central Sector with JG 51 and then JG 54.

[csThor]

Yes, both Hs 123 and Hs 129 were at Stalingrad with II./SchG 1 (the later without the Mk 101 guns, though, as pilots didn't want them).

 

As for the I-16 and I-153 ... IIRC a sizeable part of the Stalingrad PVO (Air Defense) still operated I-16s and at least one Eskadila of I-153s. Facing german Bf 109 G-2s in these kites must have been scary.

 

And finally for the Fw 190 ... the closest (distance-wise) a Fw 190 ever came to Stalingrad was a posting of a Staffel of ground-attack Fw 190s to Anapa in spring of 1943.

Edited December 12, 2012 by csThor

[Foobar]

Actually the list for the Luftwaffe goes as:

 

Bf 109 F-4

Bf 109 G-2

Ju 87 D (-1 and -3 IIRC)

He 111 H (-4 and -6)

Ju 88 A-4

Bf 110 F-4

Bf 109 E-7

 

Plus recon, transport and liaison aircraft such as Ju 52, Storch, Fw 189 etc and of course the aircraft of the Romanians and the Italians. Don't have time to check my books ATM, though. But no Fw 190 ... that one never was at Stalingrad.

 

For the VVS it's pretty much what FSM said, apart from the Yak-9 which had it's combat debut at the end of the Stalingrad campaign but only in very limited numbers. There was a fighter division operating Hurricanes and some P-40s were mentioned in BC/RS 3, too, but I don't know how many and what exact sub-type. L&L types certainly weren't that big at Stalingrad. Mostly it were the Yak-1 Model 1942, the single-seat Il-2 and Pe-2s. These made up the lion's share.

 

csThor, imo you've forgotten the Henschel Hs 123. In 1942 it was the main weapon of the newly founded Nahkampf-Fliegerverb???

Edited December 12, 2012 by Foo'bar

[csThor]

One above, foo.

[FlatSpinMan]

"the closest (distance-wise) a Fw 190 ever came to Stalingrad was a posting of a Staffel of ground-attack Fw 190s to Anapa in spring of 1943"

 

Oh, Anapa? Why, 'tis practically just around the corner. May as well chuck it in since we're here, eh?

[csThor]

Spring 1943 ... as in April 1943 at the earliest. Tsktsktsk. :D

[SJ_Butcher]

without a FW190 I can't buy this game,the unique plane I like to fly to the death, but when you itroduce the plane I will buy your game

Edited December 12, 2012 by Butcher

[SlipBall]

 

I'm no expert but off the top of my head:

 

Axis

 

Bf109G4

Fw190A4

He111?

Ju87D

Bf110?

 

VVS

Yak 1 & 9

Pe2

IL2 - single and double seat versions

La-5

 

Earlier on, maybe I-16.

 

What else?

 

What else, should include the P-39 a favorite of some Russian ace pilots...I'm not sure how many were involved early on in the battle

 

"Of the six Soviet aces generally credited with fifty or more victories, four scored most of their successes while flying the P-39 Kobra. The Soviet (and Allied) second ranking ace of the war, Alexandr Pokryshkin, scored 48 of his 59 victories while flying the Airacobra. To the end of the Second World War these men were able to use this underrated American fighter to take on some of the best German pilots, equipped with the latest versions of the Bf 109 and Fw 190. When the fighting ended there were still 1,178 P-39 Kobras in service with the Soviet air forces. Despite its technical faults, the Airacobra had become the most successful of all lend-lease aircraft sent to Russia, and had played an important role in the final Allied victory."

 

Over half of the Airacobras produced, almost 5000 planes, went to the Soviet Union. The first P-39s to reach Soviet hands were delivered from Britain, who had rejected the aircraft after it failed RAF flight testing in late 1941. After accelerated ground and flight testing the Soviet government agreed to delivery of large numbers of Airacobras through the Lend-Lease program. Between 1942 and 1944, Soviet ferry pilots flew approximately 2,600 P-39s into the USSR from Fairbanks, Alaska. 

Edited December 12, 2012 by SlipBall

[Trooper117]

Looking at the start of 'Case Blue' proper as of Sept/Aug 1942 the following aircraft were used.

Russian:

Lagg-3
Yak-1, Yak-7B
La-5
P-40
Mig-3
I-16, I-153
Hurricane
Il-2
Su-2
Pe-2
SB
R-5
DB-3
U-2

German

Bf109 F4, Bf109 G2, Bf109 E
Bf 110
Fw 189A
HS 126
HS 123
HS 129
Ju 88
Do 215
Do 17
He 111
Ju 87B, D and R

Info from 'Black Cross Red Star, Everything for Stalingrad'
 

[Foobar]

plus Ju 52

[FTC_Karaya]

La 5 will be reds most common plane online me thinks, lol.

 

its a very capable plane against the Luftwaffe offerings.

 

If the FM is true to life the La-5 of the Stalingrad period will be a sore disappointment for the red pilots, they will all go for the Yaks! Do not take the old IL-2 FM as base of any kind of serious rating of the aircraft, you have to keep in mind that the La-5/7 family in IL-2 1946 was generally a good 20kmh too fast at altitude as they were modelled after the prototype "etalon" models which were of course far better performers than the actual machines that left the factories!

 

The La-5 version present at Stalingrad was the very first serial produced model without bubble canopy and the initial M-82 engine (no F or FN yet).

 

Performance figures for the early razorback La-5 are:

 

Takeoff weight: ~3350kg

maxspeed at 0m: 525kmh

maxspeed at 2000m (1st charger gear): 560kmh

maxspeed at 6250m (2nd charger gear): 585kmh

 

Soviet turn time tests performed at constant height and speed are as high as 25s for a full turn just to put it into perspective!

 

For the La-5F with M-82F engine which however only arrived at front line units from spring-43 onwards:

 

Takeoff weight: ~3290kg

maxspeed at 0m: 550kmh

maxspeed at 2000m (1st charger gear): 585kmh

maxspeed at 6250m (2nd charger gear): 600kmh

 

Lets compare the 109F-4 & G-2, shall we?

 

Bf109F-4 (@1.3ata):

 

Takeoff weight: 2890kg

maxspeed at 0m: 520kmh

maxspeed at 6000m: 635kmh

 

Turn time for this model should be in the higher 19 - low 20s region

 

1.42ata which was used from mid-42 onwards on the DB601E of the late 109F series would provide an extra 15kmh at all altitudes!

 

Bf109G-2 (@1.3ata):

 

Takeoff weight: 3030kg

maxspeed at 0m: 535kmh

maxspeed at 6700m: 660kmh

 

This model is commonly quoted with a 20.0-20.5s turn time (from soviet sources)

 

No 1.42ata for the DB605A at the time because of engine related problems, it wasnt until late-43 that the full 1.42ata boost was cleared to use!

 

I guess it is fairly easy to guess from these figures who is going to come out on top of this matchup

The La-5 is nothing but a dog and even the 5F is not the uber fighter that it has been depicted as in IL-2 1946. It is slightly faster than the 109G at altitudes lower than 2000m but climbs worse and is also decidedly slower from 3000m onwards!

Edited December 12, 2012 by JG52Karaya

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

I am really hoping for some cr@p galore as well; I want my I16 and I-153..

 

As this is the battle of Stalingrad, I really hope they manage to produce ground troops to set the context correctly. Flying over Stalingrad and the surroundings with ground forces.. infantry even... (I don't know the engine's limitations).... would be fantastic..

 

Flying over a desolate Stalingrad with no movement though..would feel... empty.. and sterile

 

EDIT From an interview of Albert Zhiltsov earlier thies year:

 

Jonas: Is there any chance of spawning infantry (like in IL-2, [Klunk note: did we have infantry in IL2???]and early versions of European Air War and Red Baron II)?

 

Albert: There is always a chance, but there is no this kind of work in our plans. All the benefits of a more modern hardware, we have spent on exploiting other techniques and features. If you are not careful with such treatment, you will have a project, which states a lot, but very little of this works. As we have seen with some other titles. To write a press release and to write a code for the project are very different tasks.

 

Another question... hinted at the future? :D

 

Jonas: What attracts you to modeling the English Channel / La Manche?

 

Albert: First of all, the new model of interaction of the seaplane with water. This is a completely new experience in piloting. In the current simulators, this component [landing on water] is made arbitrarily and in fact we do not yet have the answer to the question of "how it was", so I really want to get it

. The map itself will be very different from what we have now ???

Edited December 12, 2012 by F19_Klunk

[Roast]

Give me a LaGG-3 and I'm a happy customer, but a I-16 and I-153 will do as well

[[LAS]URURolf]

The Me323 was also there at the final stages of the airbridge.

 

Also, the Hs129 was equiped with the 30mm, but the pilots lack of confidence in it was because they can't spot the results. Ground troops reported that they were quite successfull showing the pens on T34 side turrets. And this was on Kharkov, before Stalingrad. So, it was available on a low basis, as the plane itself.

Anyway, they also used a different ammo on the MG151. That was never modelled on IL2.

 

He-112, only participated at the first stages of Barbarossa, they were later kept as home defense.

 

The different russian recon planes. Air transports as the Li2.

 

Recon planes, were the first main motive for fighters to exist. I really hope their role is not neglected, specially since RoF is capable of using them as "fire directors".

 

The Po-2, generated some crazy measures from the germans, to the point of using He-111 as Po-2 chasers.