Brakes ignored in taxiing Bf 109 and others?

[Redglyph]

It seems that aircraft like the Bf 109 E-7 or some others, that should normally taxi with braking, have much more steer response with the rudder than the brakes even at very low taxi speed where the aerodynamics should have no influence. I don't think it's normal, or perhaps it's a bug in the settings, or something I have overlooked.

 

 

Also, those spins while taxiing don't seem very realistic, the aircraft would hardly make a complete 360 with the tail wheel on the ground. I may be wrong on that one, of course, it just feels exaggerated.

 

[Sokol1]

In game has two types of brakes:

 

"Toe brakes" (Luftwaffe, P-40, i-16) = press rudder pedal brake right or left to brake right or left wheel.

 

"Differential brakes" (all other Russian and Italian planes)= press a button/key (or axis) for "wheel brakes", move rudder for right or left for brake right or left wheel.

 

Maybe you are inadvertently using "differential brakes" in Bf 109 - is possible due joysticks with "twist rudder" and no brakes - so the rudder appear more effective at low speed.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Sokol1

[Guest deleted@50488]

I think the OP is complaining about the rudder being too effective at low taxi speeds and thrust compared to the toe brakes.

 

I wonder if for one he has some filter in the toe brake axis ( left / right ) ?   I have set mine with a 20% deadzone at the lower end of the travel to avoid innadverted braking.

 

Regarding the rddeu efficience at this lower taxi and power settings, I also find it different from what other describe, but looking at the youtubes of taxxing 109s, I can see the rudders being successfuly used under such conditions.

 

What I really find strange is why locking the tailwheel is so innefective ? With a locked tailwheel, on a Summer map ( no ice ) I can't taxi straight ahead at low ( not more than 0.1 ATA ) without having to use the rudder ?

[Quax]

As soon as you give power to move, the slipstream gives you the yaw to the left. Wind will push your vertical fin as well. If both effects work in the same direction at a stronger wind, it can be tough to taxi. Those forces are not countered by the locked tailwheel. Some pilots never locked the tailwheel in the 109.

[Quax]

Also, those spins while taxiing don't seem very realistic, the aircraft would hardly make a complete 360 with the tail wheel on the ground. I may be wrong on that one, of course, it just feels exaggerated.

 

If the tailwheel is 90 degrees off, and you  give power, it will spin. If you want to turn 90 degrees, do it SLOWLY. When in the desired direction, FIRST straighten out the tailwheel, then lock it, then give power. Whenever you see guys loosing control in MP (spinning and crashing into comrades), they dont follow the basic rules. Nothing to do with the sim.

[Redglyph]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

In game has two types of brakes:

 

"Toe brakes" (Luftwaffe, P-40, i-16) = press rudder pedal brake right or left to brake right or left wheel.

 

"Differential brakes" (all other Russian and Italian planes)= press a button/key (or axis) for "wheel brakes", move rudder for right or left for brake right or left wheel.

 

Maybe you are inadvertently using "differential brakes" in Bf 109 - is possible due joysticks with "twist rudder" and no brakes - so the rudder appear more effective at low speed.

 

I'm using the toe brakes, but thanks for pointing that out, I think I've missed the differential brakes of the other aircraft, I'll check this out next time! That should be one piece of the puzzle

 

I think the OP is complaining about the rudder being too effective at low taxi speeds and thrust compared to the toe brakes.

 

I wonder if for one he has some filter in the toe brake axis ( left / right ) ?   I have set mine with a 20% deadzone at the lower end of the travel to avoid innadverted braking.

 

Regarding the rddeu efficience at this lower taxi and power settings, I also find it different from what other describe, but looking at the youtubes of taxxing 109s, I can see the rudders being successfuly used under such conditions.

 

What I really find strange is why locking the tailwheel is so innefective ? With a locked tailwheel, on a Summer map ( no ice ) I can't taxi straight ahead at low ( not more than 0.1 ATA ) without having to use the rudder ?

 

I set a deadzone. But yes, I find that even with the air stream coming from the propeller, it feels exaggerated. I don't have any point of comparison in the real world though, I could well be wrong.

 

Regarding the locked tailwheel effectiveness, the torque makes the plane turn but I would expect that at such a low throttle settings, that should be handled by a locked tailwheel indeed.

 

As soon as you give power to move, the slipstream gives you the yaw to the left. Wind will push your vertical fin as well. If both effects work in the same direction at a stronger wind, it can be tough to taxi. Those forces are not countered by the locked tailwheel. Some pilots never locked the tailwheel in the 109.

 

I should check the wind, but from what I recall I had a similar effect in several directions because the taxi required a total 90° turn. I suppose you mean the torque gives the yaw, not the slipstream? The effect of the former should be dominant at such low speed, only the air coming from the propeller is moving around the plane at this stage, surely it can't be that much?

 

 

If the tailwheel is 90 degrees off, and you  give power, it will spin. If you want to turn 90 degrees, do it SLOWLY. When in the desired direction, FIRST straighten out the tailwheel, then lock it, then give power. Whenever you see guys loosing control in MP (spinning and crashing into comrades), they dont follow the basic rules. Nothing to do with the sim.

 

 

Yes, I had that a few times too, but what I noticed here was after rolling for quite a bit in straight line. Having such a spin would require a positive feedback from the tailwheel, which seems very odd considering all the forces at play. Even once it's turning, the tail should slow down the rotation with the angular moment from the friction, here is feels like the plane is on ice. I know this can happen, to some extent, I'm just finding the overall effect exaggerated. Again, I'm without any other proper reference than a DCS, which should be quite accurate but still not "the real thing", and could be off.

 

But I definitely need more practice with each individual aircraft for sure

Edited November 6, 2016 by Redglyph

[GridiroN]

I don't know what's up with all the people complaining about the 109 taxi recently. It was shocking when the physics engine for landing gear changed, but the 109 is still a fairly easy taxi. You guys are just not using your toe brakes properly. It's a long plane with a narrow undercarriage, you need to brake early. 

 

Also the brakes are light, so brake early. Using 30% throttle+ means you're going to have problems. The plane starts moving around 20-24%. That's all you need. 

Edited November 6, 2016 by GridiroN

[Redglyph]

I don't know what's up with all the people complaining about the 109 taxi recently. It was shocking when the physics engine for landing gear changed, but the 109 is still a fairly easy taxi. You guys are just not using your toe brakes properly. It's a long plane with a narrow undercarriage, you need to brake early. 

 

Also the brakes are light, so brake early. Using 30% throttle+ means you're going to have problems. The plane starts moving around 20-24%. That's all you need. 

 

Not complaining, wondering whether it's accurate. For the rest, thanks but it's not really answering the question.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

I'm struggling with taxiing 109s during strong Crosswinds. Always seems to be difficult to the right, full right rudder + full locked right brake sometimes isn't enough, I have to loop the plane around and lock the tailwheel on the next loop.

[GridiroN]

I'm struggling with taxiing 109s during strong Crosswinds. Always seems to be difficult to the right, full right rudder + full locked right brake sometimes isn't enough, I have to loop the plane around and lock the tailwheel on the next loop.

 

The 109 can be taxied fairly straight in a crosswind if you basically feather one toe brake rather strongly plus rudder. I do not really know any better way to describe it. 

 

You can also lock the tailwheel when you're going straight and then unlock it when you have to turn and then relock it again. I usually leave it disengaged, use the keyboard toebrake keys and not have any problems. 

[KG200_Volker]

109 turning left from stopped (brake+ruder) it's easier due to prop. To the right the circle is much wider despite all efforts. It seems to me that the new "tyre friction" calculations need also a correction for "brake power". It's like having brand new tyres on high grip road but no brake pads to stop them turning.

[KoN_]

Just the other night lots and lots of people could not turn RIGHT with a 9ms wind .

This caused endless crashes and ground loops planes tipping over ect i wished i had made a video .  `however this was on the winter maps . These people are not new to flying this sim . I did a full left hand loop back round to line up and then locked the tail wheel and a slow taxi out onto runway . 

[Dakpilot]

Just the other night lots and lots of people could not turn RIGHT with a 9ms wind .

This caused endless crashes and ground loops planes tipping over ect i wished i had made a video .  `however this was on the winter maps . These people are not new to flying this sim . I did a full left hand loop back round to line up and then locked the tail wheel and a slow taxi out onto runway . 

 

9 M/S wind is force 5 on Beaufort scale, this IS quite strong, enough to cause 6-8ft waves sea state

 

just saying 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[KoN_]

9 M/S wind is force 5 on Beaufort scale, this IS quite strong, enough to cause 6-8ft waves sea state

 

just saying 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Thanks i best check that was correct then ` as it was on a server . Yet taking off there was no sign of a force five storm . 

Edited November 10, 2016 by II./JG77_Con

[Dakpilot]

Mentioned here about Pilot not so keen to fly at above 5.14 M/s crosswind in 109G (not military flying so not any form of official limit)

 

http://109lair.hobby.../bk6_flight.htm

 

 

Force 5 is considered 'fresh' whilst Force 10 is Storm with 24.5 -28.4 M/S winds

 

Cheers Dakpilot