Failure to Detonate.

[Remerus]

Hi Gents,

 

I have noticed an issue that has been plaguing me regarding shallow dive / skip bombing where dropping on ground targets my bombs are failing to detonate, however if I drop in to a steeper dive there seems to be no problem. I have been experiencing this only since the latest patch 2.004 prior to that I had no issue with my bombs going off.

 

Has anyone been experiencing the same? My timers are set to 3 seconds as in the previous patches.

 

see attached Video for a sample bomb run I had, you will see what is described above.

 

 

Cheers Rem

[[DBS]El_Marta]

The fuze is not supposed to work at such a low altitude. It takes some time of flight to arm the bombs. The russian bombs require even more height of release.

I justed dropped 3 and 10 seconds delayed bombs from the plane on the runway and the bombs did not go off either.

Edited October 31, 2016 by [DBS]El_Marta

[Remerus]

The fuze is not supposed to work at such a low altitude. It takes some time of flight to arm the bombs. The russian bombs require even more height of release.

I justed dropped 3 and 10 seconds delayed bombs from the plane on the runway and the bombs did not go off either.

 

Hi Marta, Thanks for the reply.

 

Completely understand what you are saying as it makes absolute sense although as said in my original post prior to the last patch I did not have this issue and the process in which I was bombing is exactly as it is in the attached video except the bombs went off. what I did not mention in my original post was that I do a fair bit of ship hunting in which I employ the same tactic which does not work now post patch where previously it did, hence my curiosity.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Remerus

[Matt]

Actually no, the German bombs should not take that long to arm. And in my test, they also explode even when dropped at 1 meter altitude. Does this only happen to you if you set the timer to 3 seconds?

[[DBS]El_Marta]

I tested on a soil runway no concrete and dropped from a Me 110 with running engines standing on the ground. Regardless of fuze delay no explosions.

I tested with SC 50 and S 100 dropping from a 110 with running engines on the runway. Regardless of fuze settings no explosions were observed.

[Remerus]

Actually no, the German bombs should not take that long to arm. And in my test, they also explode even when dropped at 1 meter altitude. Does this only happen to you if you set the timer to 3 seconds?

 

Hi Matt,

 

Have only been using 3 second fuses as they give me the time to get out after the low pass drops but ​I can certainly try altering them to see if I get a different result.

 

 

Marta, I have tried dropping at the runway before take off and have been unable to drop bombs for some reason I figured it was a failsafe with in the game but alas have not tried it recently.

[216th_Jordan]

For russian planes 5 seconds fuze lets you drop from any altitude even as low as 2 meters.

[ZZ15_dasSofa]

my experience:

 

direct hit on a tank with a delayed sc bomb destroyed the fuze. fuze set to contact should work but not all bombs explodes.

a direct hit with a delayed fuze its only possible with the sd boms which is availible on the stuka as sd70.

on a flat angle drop the bomb bounce often from the soil or target.

[Mehovushka]

Fixrd in 2.005

[Remerus]

Fixrd in 2.005

 

Thank you! I will do some more testing!  

[Scojo]

This is still a problem with Russian bombs with timers under 5 seconds. Contact also doesn't seem to work very often

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

not just russian bombs.   had it happen a few times in 111 dive bombing. pull out of dive and release bomb @ 500kph from 5ft above the ground and nothing happens.

Seems the game getc confused by parked on ground and flying really low.

once you take off bomb should arm after only a release
Re: crash land and i release bomb it should exploded still even tho falling 2ft

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Use 5 sec time delay and you can drop them from 5 meters and enjoy explosion to.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

what?

The time delay has nothing to do with drop altitude (unlike WT [edited] assault fuse fudging to make tankers happy)

it takes roughly 5 seconds to fall 10,000ft (bigger bombs)
The problem is while bombs should have a fuse for detecting when plane on ground once you take off this fuse is enabled then if you again fly low it should not be effected.

Its simple the game often gets confused between landed (alt 8ft @ 0kph) versus flying (Alt 8ft @ 500kph)
and it disables the fused based only on altitude.

Edited February 21, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin

[Scojo]

Is there some kind of system I'm missing?

 

Do certain timers need certain drop heights to arm?

 

I really want to be able to use timers <5s for moving tanks and cars, but I can't right now

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

what?

 

The time delay has nothing to do with drop altitude (unlike WT [edited] assault fuse fudging to make tankers happy)

 

it takes roughly 5 seconds to fall 10,000ft (bigger bombs)

The problem is while bombs should have a fuse for detecting when plane on ground once you take off this fuse is enabled then if you again fly low it should not be effected.

 

Its simple the game often gets confused between landed (alt 8ft @ 0kph) versus flying (Alt 8ft @ 500kph)

and it disables the fused based only on altitude.

 

Try out then [edited]

 

Wacth it

Edited February 21, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin
lenguage, personal

[Scojo]

Try out then [edited]

Can you please tell us how the timers affect the arming time then?

Edited February 21, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin

[19//Moach]

russian bombs have a minimum time to detonate after launch - which is "enforced" one way or another.... this is for your safety (and it's historically correct - and NOT a bug in the sim)

 

i.e. with a low fuse timer, it explodes sooner after fusing (hitting the target/ground) - but then it'll require more air time (from drop to plop) to compensate - alternatively, with a longer fuse delay, you need hardly any air-time at all, since the bomb will wait a bit once it lands, so you can get away before it "redecorates" the place

 

 

I have not noticed any failures to detonate at any level drops with 5 second fusing and above when using russian bombs...   german bombs have no such "safety features" and you're more than welcome to blow yourself up if you're not careful

 

 

so yes - with the FABs the fuse timer has everything to do with your minimal drop altitude -- do not use less than 5 seconds unless you're dropping from high altitude (at least 3 seconds of freefall)

 

personally, I do my sturmovik runs with 10 or 15 secs - that way I can turn the plane around and watch the fireworks (much fun) - it also helps with accuracy, since you can easily see where you hit (you don't always make a crater) and thus improve your aim on future drops

 

 

by experience I assure you - russian bombs are not ideal for moving targets... unless you're really good at estimating where something will be after a while -- the ROS-132 rockets (aka "big fat boomsticks")  are about as powerful as 75% of a FAB-50 - anything you hit with that will have a very bad day - those I recommend for moving stuff....  but if you're intent on using bombs, try to spread them closely all over a column in the direction it's going (ideally over a road) - it's more than likely at least one of a handful will coincide with a panzer rolling over it when the timer runs out

 

 

this is as much detail as I could find in english about the nature of russian bombs: a very curious american document from the 1950s (pfd) -- I don't speak russian though, and couldn't find anything more specific out there, particularly, no documents that historically detail the nature of those bomb fuse timings... 

 

but I have read right here on these forums (somewhere, go dig) a while ago, from the devs, who do speak russian, and have been all over the relevant documents in the making of this game, that this is actually a peculiar feature of the FAB's, albeit mostly unknown by the majority of flightsim fans out there, who like myself, don't really speak russian at all, and are more familiar with western bombs that usually go BOOM when you expect, regardless of how you drop them

 

this wasn't simulated on any previous il2 series releases either (though THAT was in error) - and most certainly you won't find this level of detail in "other titles" out there, like that which I shall not name, lest I befoul the dignity of this thread about combat flight simulation

Edited February 21, 2017 by 19//Moach

[Scojo]

russian bombs have a minimum time to detonate after launch - which is "enforced" one way or another.... this is for your safety (and it's historically correct - and NOT a bug in the sim)

 

i.e. with a low fuse timer, it explodes sooner after fusing (hitting the target/ground) - but then it'll require more air time (from drop to plop) to compensate - alternatively, with a longer fuse delay, you need hardly any air-time at all, since the bomb will wait a bit once it lands, so you can get away before it "redecorates" the place

 

 

I have not noticed any failures to detonate at any level drops with 5 second fusing and above when using russian bombs...   german bombs have no such "safety features" and you're more than welcome to blow yourself up if you're not careful

 

 

so yes - with the FABs the fuse timer has everything to do with your minimal drop altitude -- do not use less than 5 seconds unless you're dropping from high altitude (at least 3 seconds of freefall)

 

personally, I do my sturmovik runs with 10 or 15 secs - that way I can turn the plane around and watch the fireworks (much fun) - it also helps with accuracy, since you can easily see where you hit (you don't always make a crater) and thus improve your aim on future drops

 

 

by experience I assure you - russian bombs are not ideal for moving targets... unless you're really good at estimating where something will be after a while -- the ROS-128 rockets (aka "big fat boomsticks")  are about as powerful as 75% of a FAB-50 - anything you hit with that will have a very bad day - those I recommend for moving stuff....  but if you're intent on using bombs, try to spread them closely all over a column in the direction it's going (ideally over a road) - it's more than likely at least one of a handful will coincide with a panzer rolling over it when the timer runs out

Thank you, Moach, this was very helpful.

 

I'll have to play around with it some more and see if I can figure out what heights I need for <5s fuses.

 

Are you pretty successful with the rockets? What do your attack runs with them look like? (Angle/speed) Do you fire them in multiples or one at a time?

 

I can't ever seem to hit anything with rockets

[216th_Jordan]

Why use less than 5 seconds? You can do very precise strikes with 5 seconds even against moving targets, 5 seconds is not so much time to move for a tank.

Also its way more fun to see the tank driving on your bomb and blowing up

Edited February 21, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[19//Moach]

for rockets, I recommend above all else - stay "on the ball" - the slip indicator, that is

 

rockets are much slower than bullets, so if you want them to hit the target, you gotta mind your approach as you would with a bomb - make sure you're coming in nice and straight before you fire - and note that they will not comply with your gunsights convergence setting - they just go straight

 

if you're firing singles, you also need to account for which wing they'll launch from - they will alternate sides, so remember which one was last and expect the other side (or fire pairs until you become more confident) -- I think the first one always launches from the right - but don't quote me on that.... I'm not sure off the top of my head

 

 

they are also heavily affected by the wind - which means you should check the weather before deciding whether rockets are indeed what you want for a given target...

 

 

each of the three kinds of rocket has its own unique "personality" -- my favourite are the big fat ROS-132s -- which I find are about 75% as powerful as a FAB-50 (and therefore awesome) those things will write off anything that you manage to land a direct hit on, and opel trucks become many smaller, less useful trucks, just by hitting in the nearby area - AAA is also easily removed by a nearby hit from one of those, which makes them quite useful for S.E.A.D. barrages when you're going into a fresh new target

 

but remember that different rockets fly differently - the skinny ones (armor piercing) tend to drop a lot more than their fatter siblings, which in my case, makes me miss ever shot - the tiny ones, I believe fly lots faster than both other types, I think... not sure though, I usually go for big booms - anyways, be sure to account for that before you hastily conclude that "rockets are hard" and join the many out there who seem to have given up on these actually very effective weapons

 

 

rockets are fun -- they're hard to get good at, but once you do, they're even MORE fun

Edited February 21, 2017 by 19//Moach

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

sorry mod i did not realize that was a bad word!

Here its just part of normal everyday language and not a swear word (except for the prudes who think bum is a bad word :D)


Regarding the bombs.

is there somewhere for detailed info on blast radius also and so on.
i found a website for tnt content on German bombs but thats about it.

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by =r4t=Sshadow14

[Scojo]

Why use less than 5 seconds? You can do very precise strikes with 5 seconds even against moving targets, 5 seconds is not so much time to move for a tank.

Also its way more fun to see the tank driving on your bomb and blowing up

Well then I guess I just need to spend a whole day practicing. I can get close, but even a 250kg blowing up a few meters away from a tank doesn't kill it. The few times I've killed a tank with a bomb it's been a direct hit. Even 500kgs several meters away don't seem to kill

-snip-

 

rockets are fun -- they're hard to get good at, but once you do, they're even MORE fun

Thanks again, Moach. I'll give them more of a chance. I hit a tank one time with an AP rocket once. That was all it took, but I scarcely can reproduce the result. We'll see how I can do after some practice

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

bombs versus tanks is another thread i think..

there is defo something wrong a 1t bomb exploding within 15m of a tank (even a M1 Abrahms)
Would pick it up slit it in half and flip it on its back.

Look at the pics of tiger tank in WW2 direct hit from 100kg bomb the tank was flipped 10ft in air and split in half the landed half upside down

This is what to expect from a 100kg direct hit.


Not sure why these games/sims always treat bombs versus tanks in a odd way.
1,000kg bomb doing the damage to tanks a 100kg bomb would do IRL

[Dakpilot]

Pretty sure that Panther in the picture was knocked out at Kursk by PTAB which detonated the ammunition

 

PTAB was 280 or so small shaped charge AT bombs dropped to cover an area of about 15m by 150m, probability of a direct hit was very high, and roof armour of Panther and Tiger +-20mm and 30mm was not sufficient to defeat them

 

PTAB was very successful in trials, and were held in reserve until first mass use at Kursk with good results, particularly against dense target areas, most catastrophic tank destruction was caused by secondary explosions/fires.

 

By the end of 43 more than 1 million had been dropped

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Lusekofte]

For russian planes 5 seconds fuze lets you drop from any altitude even as low as 2 meters.

 

 

Damnit, how many bombs have I not left unexploded because of the low drop hight , 

 

Well I am starting to get pretty good at dropping them high though