How do you fight the MiG?

[ACG_KaiLae]

Now we've had threads on how you would fly/fight the 190, P40, etc. However, I don't recall anyone saying what the best way to get the most out of this plane there is. So, MiG-3 experts (do they exist?) what's the best way to fight your MiG-3?

[Finkeren]

By "fight", do you mean "fight against" or "fight in" the MiG?

[Cybermat47]

By "fight", do you mean "fight against" or "fight in" the MiG?

Personally, I'd like to know both, but the OP seems to be asking how you fight in the MiG.

[Finkeren]

Prior to 2.004 the MiG was probably the plane I flew the most (now I'm having a particular issue with the take off that has kept me more or less grounded.

 

I'm by no means a crack pilot, even though I've been flying sims for the past 25 years, and there are pilots who fly the MiG far better than me.

 

Still I'll offer my take. See if you can put any of it to use:

 

1. Acknowledge, that you are at a disadvantage. You can fight on more or less even terms with the Bf 109E-7. Against all other German single engined fighters, you have a performance deficit (except above 5000m - but how often do you actually get to fight up there?) Only attack, when you have a clear advantage and bring a friend.

 

2. The MiG accelerates really well. That means, that you can regain lost energy faster than your opponent. Use that to your advantage.

 

3. The MiG is very maneuverable - in short bursts. Keep your speed up, but try to keep a close fight, where you constantly force your opponent to bleed energy. A quick maneuver - regain energy - another quick maneuver etc.

Hug your opponent close and deny him the chance to climb above you.

 

4. Don't try to outclimb your opponent. You can sorta get away with it against the Fw 190, but the 109s will get on top of you every single time. Given a healthy altitude advantage, you can BnZ for a while, but eventually he'll catch up to you.

 

5. Bring the big guns to end the fight quickly. Use UBS or ShVAK armament (whatever suits you best) Don't use UBK gun pods.

 

Hope this helps.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

What Finkeren said

 

I'd also add that you need to be all over that rudder trim to get the best out of it. When in combat, get used to glancing at the ball and correcting any slip while you reposition.

 

I keep mixture at 50% (Земля on the lever) until I'm in a pickle. One way to gain a few km/h is to monitor your temperatures and really close the radiators down to the bare minimum (both water and oil) within nominal limits. I find the AM-35 much easier to keep cool than the M-105PF, so there is no need to fly all flapped out.

 

Contrary to most though I prefer the default armament because of the rate of fire and loads of ammunition. You can be less conservative with the ShKAS, which leads to an extra hit or two.

[GridiroN]

What Finkeren said

 

I'd also add that you need to be all over that rudder trim to get the best out of it. When in combat, get used to glancing at the ball and correcting any slip while you reposition.

I don't understand what people mean when they refer to this.

Edited October 30, 2016 by GridiroN

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

 Regarding the Mig, it's the only fighter that i have a problem aligning the gunsight with my TrackIR , i'v tried the line of sight alignment button on my stick and F10 but with not much success ?   I also find the Mig's cockpit claustrophobic !!

 

 

Cheers   

[Medicated]

I've recently started using the Mig too and have been thoroughly enjoying it. I'm still learning it myself and have a ways to go. One question I have is the proper use of fuel mix. I know 100% will give you boosted mode, but what is the proper mix ratio for high/mid/low altitude and what would be the proper mix ratio for dogfighting? Thanks for any answers!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I don't understand what people mean when they refer to this.

I should have been clearer, my bad. This thingy here:

 

 

I find the MiG-3 to be extremely manoeuvrable when coordinated, but terribly unstable when not. Though you should counter most slip and skid through rudder input, trimming the rudder properly when not manoeuvring aggressively helps you keep the aircraft stable and fast.

 

About the mixture, if you look down at the lever there are three inscriptions - Высота (Altitude) at 0%, Земля (Ground) at 50% and Форсаж (Boost) at 100%. Use 50% for most operations below 4000m or so, then lean it from there on, and use anything above 50% when you need an extra hand, increasing the mixture based on just how f***ed you are.

[ACG_KaiLae]

The mixture is the part I don't understand the most. I have no idea what is appropriate.

[Medicated]

Thanks Lucas! Looks like I will need to watch the slip indicator and practice using more appropriate rudder inputs during turns. In regards to the fuel mix, that's what I figured I needed to do but I wasn't certain. Cheers!

[Finkeren]

The mixture is the part I don't understand the most. I have no idea what is appropriate.

Mixture functions differently on the Mikunin engines than any other engine in game. I don't actually understand how it works, but the effect is clear: Adjusting mixture has a very direct effect on manifold pressure.

 

I find myself using only mixture to control the engine most of the time during a fight. Except when needing to cut throttle in a dive. The engine is designed to run max rpm all the time anyway.

[ACG_KaiLae]

So, 100% rpm and throttle? Change mixture for control? How do you know what mixture to use at which altitude?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I should have been clearer, my bad. This thingy here:

 

 

I find the MiG-3 to be extremely manoeuvrable when coordinated, but terribly unstable when not. Though you should counter most slip and skid through rudder input, trimming the rudder properly when not manoeuvring aggressively helps you keep the aircraft stable and fast.

 

About the mixture, if you look down at the lever there are three inscriptions - Высота (Altitude) at 0%, Земля (Ground) at 50% and Форсаж (Boost) at 100%. Use 50% for most operations below 4000m or so, then lean it from there on, and use anything above 50% when you need an extra hand, increasing the mixture based on just how f***ed you are.

Someone may have said it but I missed it; STEP ON THE BALL to keep it centered.

 

If the ball is to the left, use LEFT pedal. If the ball is on the right, RIGHT pedal.

 

*Don't know about the MiG but the 109 F and G's require significant attention to the ball throughout the flight envelope, not just in a turn. 190's only in a very fast dive for the most part.

Edited October 30, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Using 50%* (normal power) mixture for cruise, 84% (increased cruise) for combat and 100% (boost) for emergency works best for me.

 

You don't really need to lean mixture below full throttle altitude.

 

Technicly the mixture lever in the Mig-3 also contorlled the farzah boost injection. Can't really tell at which % it is engaged though.

Edited October 30, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Finkeren]

Using 50%* (normal power) mixture for cruise, 84% (increased cruise) for combat and 100% (boost) for emergency works best for me.

 

You don't really need to lean mixture below full throttle altitude.

 

Technicly the mixture lever in the Mig-3 also contorlled the farzah boost injection. Can't really tell at which % it is engaged though.

I'm pretty sure it's at 85%. You can kind of hear it.

[E69_geramos109]

If you fight against a foke you only have to wait the mortal spin.

Against the 109 i think to run is a good option. I was in pursuit of one mig3 on the deck with my f4 and after 10 mins i could not caught him. I only get the kill because he turned in to me again so against a G2 or F2 shoud be no problem.

I really want to purchase BOM to test it but what i saw the way to flight is some similar as the 109

Edited November 2, 2016 by E69_geramos109

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Ten minutes on the deck? The MiG is optimized for flight at altitude. The F4 should eat its lunch on the deck and the G2 is also better than the MiG down low. Although more maneuverable than the Fw it is no match for raw speed on the deck with the 190. The MiG holds energy pretty well out of a dive but a ten minute overtake tells me you were at a significant E deficit from the outset and the MiG probably should have reversed and engaged you.

[Finkeren]

Agree with Herrmurf.

 

On the deck I can sorta catch a Bf 109E-7 (if he's out of emergency timer) and can run fast enough that a F-2 won't follow me, but a F-4 or G-2 will hunt me down, no matter what I do.

[E69_geramos109]

Agree with Herrmurf.

 

On the deck I can sorta catch a Bf 109E-7 (if he's out of emergency timer) and can run fast enough that a F-2 won't follow me, but a F-4 or G-2 will hunt me down, no matter what I do.

 

Ten minutes on the deck? The MiG is optimized for flight at altitude. The F4 should eat its lunch on the deck and the G2 is also better than the MiG down low. Although more maneuverable than the Fw it is no match for raw speed on the deck with the 190. The MiG holds energy pretty well out of a dive but a ten minute overtake tells me you were at a significant E deficit from the outset and the MiG probably should have reversed and engaged you.

 

The pursuit was after a close combat on the deck at low speed. He desengached and i followed him near to his base. In winter about 600km/h IAS for my F4

If you guys tell me that the mig is not as fast i was fighting against a cheater? 

I have the track and i want to make a video because was a nice dogfight so you will see. Maybe the red pilot knows how to get the best from the mig i dont know.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The pursuit was after a close combat on the deck at low speed. He desengached and i followed him near to his base. In winter about 600km/h IAS for my F4

If you guys tell me that the mig is not as fast i was fighting against a cheater? 

I have the track and i want to make a video because was a nice dogfight so you will see. Maybe the red pilot knows how to get the best from the mig i dont know.

A clean MiG has almost no Speed disadvantage compared to the F-4. Under Optimal Conditions the Speed Difference on the Deck is at around 5-10kph (MiG will do 518-525, 535 in extreme cases with closed rads in autumn, while the F-4 likes to sit at around 527), with the MiG using Boosted Rating and Minimal Opengings, and a 109 with full Nose-Heavy Stabilizers. The difference is so small, it all comes down to the Pilot, his calmness and ease of control movements. Against the MiG I would always advise F and later models to very slowly initiate a climb. 

Loose about 30kph per minute in that climb, that way he cannot sufficiently cut the corner and get a deflection shot on you. The Steeper the climb gets, the more seperation you get and the easier it will get to plan ahead. A climbing circle at 250-300kph will put the MiG in real trouble. At that point he is your plaything, unable to dive or climb away. 

[303_Kwiatek]

I really like to see data which claim that Mig3 with Am35 was such fast at the deck. All known data gave it maximum 500 kph but most of them just even below these speed

[GridiroN]

I should have been clearer, my bad. This thingy here:

 

 

I find the MiG-3 to be extremely manoeuvrable when coordinated, but terribly unstable when not. Though you should counter most slip and skid through rudder input, trimming the rudder properly when not manoeuvring aggressively helps you keep the aircraft stable and fast.

 

About the mixture, if you look down at the lever there are three inscriptions - Высота (Altitude) at 0%, Земля (Ground) at 50% and Форсаж (Boost) at 100%. Use 50% for most operations below 4000m or so, then lean it from there on, and use anything above 50% when you need an extra hand, increasing the mixture based on just how f***ed you are.

 

 

Someone may have said it but I missed it; STEP ON THE BALL to keep it centered.

 

If the ball is to the left, use LEFT pedal. If the ball is on the right, RIGHT pedal.

 

*Don't know about the MiG but the 109 F and G's require significant attention to the ball throughout the flight envelope, not just in a turn. 190's only in a very fast dive for the most part.

 

I don't understand the value of what any of this means. What value is paying attention to slip (which hasn't really been explained) vs simply eye-balling it, or intuition. I've never paid any attention to this dial in the 109 or 190 and I wouldn't say my flight is the worse for it. 

[FuriousMeow]

In a real plane you can feel slip - flying by the seat of your pants, you can feel the plane going a different way than it should - the value is that a properly coordinated plane in flight will retain energy better and won't make unexpected departures from flight in some maneuvers.

Edited November 6, 2016 by FuriousMeow

[ShamrockOneFive]

I don't understand the value of what any of this means. What value is paying attention to slip (which hasn't really been explained) vs simply eye-balling it, or intuition. I've never paid any attention to this dial in the 109 or 190 and I wouldn't say my flight is the worse for it. 

 

A coordinated turn will result in less drag as there is less sideslip. A "perfect" turn in an airplane is when you're moving on all axis at once and coordinating your turn without sideslip.

 

You don't have to. But you'll always loose a little more energy by not.

[GridiroN]

A coordinated turn will result in less drag as there is less sideslip. A "perfect" turn in an airplane is when you're moving on all axis at once and coordinating your turn without sideslip.

 

You don't have to. But you'll always loose a little more energy by not.

 

Ok, interesting. Thanks.

[Dakpilot]

I don't understand the value of what any of this means. What value is paying attention to slip (which hasn't really been explained) vs simply eye-balling it, or intuition. I've never paid any attention to this dial in the 109 or 190 and I wouldn't say my flight is the worse for it. 

 

Not very well explained but has some pics which demonstrate

 

http://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/29454/what-is-a-skidding-turn-vs-slipping-turn

 

http://www.empire-aviation.com/flight-instructors/john-e-mclain/slips-and-skids-an-explanation-of-the-terms-is-necessary.html

 

google slips and skids and do some more reading 

 

Not trying to "single you out" but this does lead to some questions....a lot of people complain about FM's and aircraft 'comparative' performance, issues of accelerated stalls etc.

 

How many people are flying uncoordinated, creating drag, slipping and skidding all over the sky and feeling/complaining that their aircraft is underperforming?  and then blaming faulty FM model

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I only have Luftie planes as a reference but dive a 109 or 190 at 700 plus. With no pedal input the ball will be all the way to the left which means you are inducing an incredible amount of drag. Step on the ball to fix the skid and you will not be burning nearly as much E. If you are diving/extending with someone on your six it can be the difference between (your virtual) life or death.

 

Additionally, as you level out and sped decreases you will need progressively less input until you are back to cruising speed. If you climb up in the 109 and speed decreases further you will need right rudder. The 190 is much less sensitive to minor dives and climbing. The 109 requires constant rudder inputs as trim through most phases of flight.

Edited November 6, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Finkeren]

The 109 requires constant rudder inputs as trim through most phases of flight.

And this was also one of the main reasons the 109 was viewed as being quite tiring to fly historically.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Once they fix the yaw coupling it will be very historically accurate. Han has mentioned the fix in a couple of DD's now. So, I'm confident it's on the way at some point.

[Finkeren]

Once they fix the yaw coupling it will be very historically accurate. Han has mentioned the fix in a couple of DD's now. So, I'm confident it's on the way at some point.

The last DD seemed to indicate, that they more or less have the solution ready, but that it takes a lot of work to implement of each seperate aircraft.

[ShamrockOneFive]

The last DD seemed to indicate, that they more or less have the solution ready, but that it takes a lot of work to implement of each seperate aircraft.

 

For sure. They will have to edit the FMs for every aircraft is what I was interpreting from the dev update.

 

I'm pretty interested to see how the aircraft will handle afterwards.

[310_cibule]

Once they fix the yaw coupling it will be very historically accurate. Han has mentioned the fix in a couple of DD's now. So, I'm confident it's on the way at some point.

 

Could you explain what "yaw coupling" means?  

[Dakpilot]

Could you explain what "yaw coupling" means?  

 

Simple and over generalizing....and slightly inaccurate but..

 

The effect/ratio of rudder influencing roll as well as Yaw

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[310_cibule]

Simple and over generalizing....and slightly inaccurate but..

 

The effect/ratio of rudder influencing roll as well as Yaw

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Ok. Thx.

 

A friend of mine who is a real pilot told me that one of the most unrealistic thing in BoS is that even the most stable planes as e.g. P-40 don't fly straight forward without skidding or slipping as they should unless one touches pedals and joystick. 

[-WILD-AlbinoHA5E]

The Ball has the Same function as the Yaw String on a Glider, however it is easier to understand. Both instruments indicate from which direction the Air hits your aircraft. The Yaw String basically gets blown in whatever direction the air hits the Aircraft from. Keeping the Yak String off center means you are exposing the Side of the Aircraft to the Airflow, which acts as an airbrake and slows you down. It will also Shadow Off the inner wing Section on the opposite side, which can lead to a Spin in extreme cases.

In a well coordinated turn the centerline of the Aircraft is exactly on line with the Airflow.

 

Observe in these Videos (1st one at around 1 Minute, before the Slip the String is in line with the centerline of the Aircraft, when the Side-Slip is initiated in 1:08 how the Yaw String moves out of the Centerline, indicating that now the Aircraft is Slipping Sideways)