The Challenge for 109 pilots

[GridiroN]

I've posted about this and spoken on WoL about this before...

 

The Germans face a far tougher uphill battle than the Russians do. 

 

- The Russian team is generally more coordinated

- The Russian team has many more expert pilots

- Attacking a PE2 is basically a death sentence without 2 or 3 other Messershmitts

- German bombers are slow and easily shot down

- All Russian planes outperform the 109 in anything of relevance below 3K. (to stem the tide of the inevitable replies I'm going to receive claiming the 109's climb rate is too good, the 109's climb rate is good, but not better than a bullet which you can easily put into a 109 climbing in a <200m dogfight..)  

 

Russian pilots can whine all they like that the German players are cowards (or whatever...) for not flying on Russian terms (which makes no sense...who would ever do this? Why aren't you Russians simply flying at 8K?), but flying Russian is not nearly as hard as Russian pilots make it out to be. I changed over to Russian this week to test some of their planes and was getting kills pretty quickly. The MiG with berezin guns is laughably lethal, and the LaGG was built using unicorn magic or something because 109's were stupidly easy to evade/outmaneuver even with an energy disadvantage and I wasn't even paying close attention to my energy levels. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by GridiroN

[hames123]

Yes but the VVS does not need to face the 109s at 5000 metres, since the ground is at 0 feet and that is where the action is. Unless the German "aces" come down and fight, the Stukas get massacred. Also, to win a campaign or battle, you need to control the ground, and that is why I am encouraging 109 pilots to fly ground attackers, or do grpund attack themselves. I mean, a ground kill is worth a much as an air kill, and much easier to get.

[Guest deleted@50488]

Here you have one guy who picks fighters from both VVS or Axis side, just based on # of players in the teams when I enter the lobby, trying to get even conditions, and fly never above 2500m, but most of time well bellow...

Edited October 15, 2016 by jcomm

[Turban]

I've posted about this and spoken on WoL about this before...

 

The Germans face a far tougher uphill battle than the Russians do. 

 

- The Russian team is generally more coordinated

- The Russian team has many more expert pilots

- Attacking a PE2 is basically a death sentence without 2 or 3 other Messershmitts

- German bombers are slow and easily shot down

- All Russian planes outperform the 109 in anything of relevance below 3K. (to stem the tide of the inevitable replies I'm going to receive claiming the 109's climb rate is too good, the 109's climb rate is good, but not better than a bullet which you can easily put into a 109 climbing in a <200m dogfight..)  

 

Russian pilots can whine all they like that the German players are cowards (or whatever...) for not flying on Russian terms (which makes no sense...who would ever do this? Why aren't you Russians simply flying at 8K?), but flying Russian is not nearly as hard as Russian pilots make it out to be. I changed over to Russian this week to test some of their planes and was getting kills pretty quickly. The MiG with berezin guns is laughably lethal, and the LaGG was built using unicorn magic or something because 109's were stupidly easy to evade/outmaneuver even with an energy disadvantage and I wasn't even paying close attention to my energy levels. 

 

You could have had some good points if it wasn't for all the hyperboles, which frankly make it hard to take your post seriously.

[Max_Damage]

I've posted about this and spoken on WoL about this before...

 

The Germans face a far tougher uphill battle than the Russians do. 

 

- The Russian team is generally more coordinated

- The Russian team has many more expert pilots

- Attacking a PE2 is basically a death sentence without 2 or 3 other Messershmitts

- German bombers are slow and easily shot down

- All Russian planes outperform the 109 in anything of relevance below 3K. (to stem the tide of the inevitable replies I'm going to receive claiming the 109's climb rate is too good, the 109's climb rate is good, but not better than a bullet which you can easily put into a 109 climbing in a <200m dogfight..)  

 

Russian pilots can whine all they like that the German players are cowards (or whatever...) for not flying on Russian terms (which makes no sense...who would ever do this? Why aren't you Russians simply flying at 8K?), but flying Russian is not nearly as hard as Russian pilots make it out to be. I changed over to Russian this week to test some of their planes and was getting kills pretty quickly. The MiG with berezin guns is laughably lethal, and the LaGG was built using unicorn magic or something because 109's were stupidly easy to evade/outmaneuver even with an energy disadvantage and I wasn't even paying close attention to my energy levels. 

LOLno

 

bf109 are better at acceleration, climbing and also most of the time speed and turning then the russian planes

[Livai]

bf109 are better at acceleration, climbing and also most of the time speed and turning then the russian planes

 

is a delusion nothing else who are subjecting to this? Sorry, that I step in but someone needed to say this! This means nothing if a untrained pilot is not able to take the advantage what this plane provide! In hands of a skilled pilot this plane is deadly like each other plane with great performance!

 

I've posted about this and spoken on WoL about this before...

 

The Germans face a far tougher uphill battle than the Russians do. 

 

- The Russian team is generally more coordinated

- The Russian team has many more expert pilots

- Attacking a PE2 is basically a death sentence without 2 or 3 other Messershmitts

- German bombers are slow and easily shot down

- All Russian planes outperform the 109 in anything of relevance below 3K. (to stem the tide of the inevitable replies I'm going to receive claiming the 109's climb rate is too good, the 109's climb rate is good, but not better than a bullet which you can easily put into a 109 climbing in a <200m dogfight..)  

 

Russian pilots can whine all they like that the German players are cowards (or whatever...) for not flying on Russian terms (which makes no sense...who would ever do this? Why aren't you Russians simply flying at 8K?), but flying Russian is not nearly as hard as Russian pilots make it out to be. I changed over to Russian this week to test some of their planes and was getting kills pretty quickly. The MiG with berezin guns is laughably lethal, and the LaGG was built using unicorn magic or something because 109's were stupidly easy to evade/outmaneuver even with an energy disadvantage and I wasn't even paying close attention to my energy levels. 

 

to shoot at his own teammates what kind of pilots are they this German team? Flying there to have more fear from friendly fire than from the enemy!!!!! If I count the numbers how many 109s are in the air than bombers and still not able to take advantage?  Pitiful......Sometimes I wonder where are all the 109 flying around? I see everytime a single 109 at low altitude dealing with two or more yaks alone? Try to help not easy if you see more enemies incoming. No reaction from own teammates if you need them there you need to do this on your own!! Doing the same flying for the Russian team I expect help in any moment.

 

If something outperform the 109 thats the own mistakes nothing more. I can deal with the 109 below 3k with each enemy not a big deal for me but I have a problem if two yaks already chasing me and more enemies are incoming to help these two yaks! Do it on your own that's a big problem inside the German team. Not sure from where this comes from?

 

My experience shows if you face a enemy with a 109 or 190 you can expect in every moment more enemies incoming to help him. And if another 109 or 190 show up you can expect some friendly fire than help!

Edited October 15, 2016 by Superghostboy

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Well I took up your challenge, flew some stukas and Ju88's on TAW and had a good time.

Found my plane pretty well covered by 109's for the most part too. The times I didn't were the times I didn't request cover.

 

Here is my secret, and it seems like it's a pretty big one with the number that aren't using it. "Radio communication". 

 

I jumped into my first Stuka, asked the others on the TAW teamspeak for some cover - and 'lo and behold, I had cover. It seemed to work exactly like it did when I was flying a 109 and a bomber pilot asked me via TS for cover. There is something about not having to let go of your stick to write out a few sentences that really helps with keeping those 109's on teamspeak with me up to date on my location and status. Probably also why voice communication radios were used in the real fighters, rather than a morse code straight key.

 

If your on teamspeak and they refuse to help you - sure, jump back on the forums and bash out a few complaints via your keyboard for all to see.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I've posted about this and spoken on WoL about this before...

 

The Germans face a far tougher uphill battle than the Russians do. 

 

- The Russian team is generally more coordinated

- The Russian team has many more expert pilots

- Attacking a PE2 is basically a death sentence without 2 or 3 other Messershmitts

- German bombers are slow and easily shot down

- All Russian planes outperform the 109 in anything of relevance below 3K. (to stem the tide of the inevitable replies I'm going to receive claiming the 109's climb rate is too good, the 109's climb rate is good, but not better than a bullet which you can easily put into a 109 climbing in a <200m dogfight..)  

 

Russian pilots can whine all they like that the German players are cowards (or whatever...) for not flying on Russian terms (which makes no sense...who would ever do this? Why aren't you Russians simply flying at 8K?), but flying Russian is not nearly as hard as Russian pilots make it out to be. I changed over to Russian this week to test some of their planes and was getting kills pretty quickly. The MiG with berezin guns is laughably lethal, and the LaGG was built using unicorn magic or something because 109's were stupidly easy to evade/outmaneuver even with an energy disadvantage and I wasn't even paying close attention to my energy levels. 

1. Point: True

 

2. Point: Untrue; The total newbs and the absolute experts are the oens flying germans. The russians are for the most part completely average. The russians have a smaller spread of skill, fewer experts and fewer noobs

Also, the russian guys tend to be multitalented, flying all aircraft from time to time, more aggressive, and more concentrated without a hint of arrogance, trying to trap the german pilots, instead of fighting them. 

Russians are by no means "Experts" as such. (Except for Bender maybe)

 

3. Point: Untrue. It doesn't fall apart very quickly, but the gunners die easily and have very little ammo. Standard attack tactics apply. It's not a pushover, but neither is is a flying fortress. Side attacks on the belly are absolutely lethal and very successfull. Just get some training in Quick Missions and learn the weakspots. 

 

4. Point: Half Truth: Heinkel is tough as dried up Dog Poo and the H-16 should be well defended too. 

The Ju-88 with 1400kg of internal Bombload outruns every Pe-2 with 1000kg. A Pe-2 has to load 600kg to match the Ju-88 below 3k, above that the 88 is faster once again. 

We tend to fly the 88 anywhere between 4-6k and even unescorted we take down one or more fighters for every Bomber that has to land outside the airfield. 

The German Bombers are quite a tough target when flown correctly. 

 

5 Point: Wrong. The russians just tend to fly far more conscious of their inferior performance, make potshots to slow the enemy down etc. 

However, when people try slow climbing and turning matches against my I-16 I can't help them, because surprise, I have the superior P/W and 4 Guns. 

Otherwise, the germans are always best off just "zooming around". 

If you try going low and slow with them, you equal out the playing field and they tend to have more of a low speed reserve to land one or two potshots at you to get you back in bed with them. 

I have never felt "In power" against german Aircraft.

 

Your subjective experience speaks to the quality of the average german pilot. When we fly in a disciplined, coordinated group, 190s or 109, doesn't matter, even Bf110s, we tend to be far more successfull than most lonewolfing german Pilots. 

 

Just observe how many friendly aircraft you tend to have near you when flying russian. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Willy__]

Being shot down on the first pass most of the times in the germans planes while the russians enjoy their stalinwood crates which soak up alot of damage also does not help. Most of the time you dive on a target, shot it to pieces, it start to leak (sometime not even leaks), and soon more 3-4 russians comes to its help. Now switch sides, the poor german get completely wrecked by the russian guns on a first pass.

 

https://youtu.be/f2syfbsHRXY?t=231

[Hutzlipuh]

Being shot down on the first pass most of the times in the germans planes while the russians enjoy their stalinwood crates which soak up alot of damage also does not help. Most of the time you dive on a target, shot it to pieces, it start to leak (sometime not even leaks), and soon more 3-4 russians comes to its help. Now switch sides, the poor german get completely wrecked by the russian guns on a first pass.

 

https://youtu.be/f2syfbsHRXY?t=231

See that on a regular basis.... VVS takes multiple 20mm HE (you cant really see AP hits in a fight) and still pull high alpha and continue to fight...while getting one or two hits in the german planes ruins something important if not even going though the armor plate,pilot and wrecking the engine.... never seen that behaviour while taking shots at VVS.planes...

either the netcode is FUBAR or there is something wrong with shell/damage-modeling....

Edited October 15, 2016 by Hutzlipuh

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Being shot down on the first pass most of the times in the germans planes while the russians enjoy their stalinwood crates which soak up alot of damage also does not help. Most of the time you dive on a target, shot it to pieces, it start to leak (sometime not even leaks), and soon more 3-4 russians comes to its help. Now switch sides, the poor german get completely wrecked by the russian guns on a first pass.

 

https://youtu.be/f2syfbsHRXY?t=231

This look to me like network latency. 

[Hutzlipuh]

This look to me like network latency. 

Karaya should have a similar ping to WoL as me...around 50-60.... ?

[GridiroN]

Yes but the VVS does not need to face the 109s at 5000 metres, since the ground is at 0 feet and that is where the action is. Unless the German "aces" come down and fight, the Stukas get massacred. Also, to win a campaign or battle, you need to control the ground, and that is why I am encouraging 109 pilots to fly ground attackers, or do grpund attack themselves. I mean, a ground kill is worth a much as an air kill, and much easier to get.

 

The 109 requires an advantage. Entering a combat zone at a height that is guaranteed to be co-alt, or even sub-alt is just bad strategy IMO, and you will end up more of a liability as you'll just be wasting a plane. IMO, even if you're trying to cover stukas, or 110's, you need to dive on Russian planes or they'll just flap abuse their way behind you, land a 23mm, or berezin, and now the team is down an F4/G2. 

 

LOLno

 

bf109 are better at acceleration, climbing and also most of the time speed and turning then the russian planes

 

Acceleration only does so much for you if your opponent is behind you. The 109's advantages are valuable when the enemy is clearly on the backfoot, like when you have an altitude advantage, or when he's trying to make a run for it. If you're in a knife fight, climbing and accellerating isn't going to save you from a bullet shot by a any half accurate gunnery. 

 

You could have had some good points if it wasn't for all the hyperboles, which frankly make it hard to take your post seriously.

 

Pretty much everything I said was meant to be taken seriously. I added very little hyperbole except my sarcasm that the LaGG was made with unicorn magic. 

 

1. Point: True

 

2. Point: Untrue; The total newbs and the absolute experts are the oens flying germans. The russians are for the most part completely average. The russians have a smaller spread of skill, fewer experts and fewer noobs

Also, the russian guys tend to be multitalented, flying all aircraft from time to time, more aggressive, and more concentrated without a hint of arrogance, trying to trap the german pilots, instead of fighting them. 

Russians are by no means "Experts" as such. (Except for Bender maybe)

 

3. Point: Untrue. It doesn't fall apart very quickly, but the gunners die easily and have very little ammo. Standard attack tactics apply. It's not a pushover, but neither is is a flying fortress. Side attacks on the belly are absolutely lethal and very successfull. Just get some training in Quick Missions and learn the weakspots. 

 

4. Point: Half Truth: Heinkel is tough as dried up Dog Poo and the H-16 should be well defended too. 

The Ju-88 with 1400kg of internal Bombload outruns every Pe-2 with 1000kg. A Pe-2 has to load 600kg to match the Ju-88 below 3k, above that the 88 is faster once again. 

We tend to fly the 88 anywhere between 4-6k and even unescorted we take down one or more fighters for every Bomber that has to land outside the airfield. 

The German Bombers are quite a tough target when flown correctly. 

 

5 Point: Wrong. The russians just tend to fly far more conscious of their inferior performance, make potshots to slow the enemy down etc. 

However, when people try slow climbing and turning matches against my I-16 I can't help them, because surprise, I have the superior P/W and 4 Guns. 

Otherwise, the germans are always best off just "zooming around". 

If you try going low and slow with them, you equal out the playing field and they tend to have more of a low speed reserve to land one or two potshots at you to get you back in bed with them. 

I have never felt "In power" against german Aircraft.

 

Your subjective experience speaks to the quality of the average german pilot. When we fly in a disciplined, coordinated group, 190s or 109, doesn't matter, even Bf110s, we tend to be far more successfull than most lonewolfing german Pilots. 

 

Just observe how many friendly aircraft you tend to have near you when flying russian. 

 

1. Thank you. 

 

2. I generally disagree, but if we accept that you're premise is true, it contradicts your point. Having a team made up of 7/10 pilots is a lot better than a team of a couple 10/10's and everyone else is like a 2. 

 

3. I'm aware of the standard concept of attacking any given bomber, I'm saying in my experience, the PE2's gunners fire homing bullets, and the plane can fly for an inordinate amount of time spewing black. The last 6 times I've attacked a PE2, I've made it home once. They simply aren't worth attacking alone and I know quite a lot of regular German pilots on WoL and TaW have stated the same conclusions. 

 

4. In my experience, I find the HE111 a more difficult plane to attack than the Ju88. The Ju88 had more gunnery restrictions in terms of it's arcs. I flew a MiG the other day, and shot one down with only a few berezin bullets from outside it's machine gun range sitting right on it's 6. The He111 has better coverage and considering it's a big plane, I've had more experience staying together long enough to at least smoke the Russian attacking me/it. 

 

5. Too much subjectivity to delve into imo, but I take your point, though, for the most part though I don't necessarily agree with all of it. 

 

Being shot down on the first pass most of the times in the germans planes while the russians enjoy their stalinwood crates which soak up alot of damage also does not help. Most of the time you dive on a target, shot it to pieces, it start to leak (sometime not even leaks), and soon more 3-4 russians comes to its help. Now switch sides, the poor german get completely wrecked by the russian guns on a first pass.

 

https://youtu.be/f2syfbsHRXY?t=231

 

This is also another aspect of flying German the Russians don't have to deal with. Russian planes take an insane amount of damage and still remain combat effective. I put five 20mm rounds in an La5 2 weeks ago and kept fighting. Hah.

[Turban]

When flying the Mig I've had 15+ recorded 20mm hits on 109 and they kept flying. I was sometimes destroyed with very few hits. I don't agree with the whole argument. 

Now I fly german and it translates pretty well. I sometimes pop russians with very few hits. And sometimes can stand more than expected.

 

GRANTED, russian planes are overall very sturdy (which is fine btw) , and the Lagg's 23mm is suspect , BUT, IMO, the concept that there is some kind of crazy imbalance overall is completely unfounded.

 

Most of the time, it's how you hit a plane and where that matters. 

 

I should start selling tinfoil hats....

Edited October 15, 2016 by Turban

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

3. I'm aware of the standard concept of attacking any given bomber, I'm saying in my experience, the PE2's gunners fire homing bullets, and the plane can fly for an inordinate amount of time spewing black. The last 6 times I've attacked a PE2, I've made it home once. They simply aren't worth attacking alone and I know quite a lot of regular German pilots on WoL and TaW have stated the same conclusions.   

 

Depends on the model. The later one has a quick firing .50 cal in a turret. It's the best rear gun station ingame, just by principle. 

Effectiveness of the gunners depends on Server settings, between Novice and Ace.

Also, a .50 cal is about as destructive for an engine as around 3-4 .30 cals. Basically one or two hits from the .50 defensive gun should take your engine out of action within seconds. 

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Being shot down on the first pass most of the times in the germans planes while the russians enjoy their stalinwood crates which soak up alot of damage also does not help. Most of the time you dive on a target, shot it to pieces, it start to leak (sometime not even leaks), and soon more 3-4 russians comes to its help. Now switch sides, the poor german get completely wrecked by the russian guns on a first pass.

 

https://youtu.be/f2syfbsHRXY?t=231

 

In that same video you can see similar attacks which ends in total destruction of the soviet aircraft, with less hits

 

https://youtu.be/f2syfbsHRXY?t=163

 

https://youtu.be/f2syfbsHRXY?t=305

 

So it could be a laggy thingy

Edited October 15, 2016 by -=PLR=-SuperEtendard

[ACG_pezman]

It's totally a laggy thing. 

 

It's just how much milliseconds can make a difference between a hit and a miss. 

[VBF-12_Snake9]

My toughest opponent is my poor ping-internet. Lol. The servers locations don't help either.

[FuriousMeow]

The game may change but the "the German planes are at a disadvantage despite their superiority in every single way!" never does.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it isn't the planes.

[GridiroN]

The game may change but the "the German planes are at a disadvantage despite their superiority in every single way!" never does.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it isn't the planes.

 

Or, perhaps the narrative perpetuated by Russian whiners that the BF109 is an anointed gift, purified by Hitler himself to bring nothing but pain and suffering to any poor soul willing to step into the cockpit of a YaK is foolishness...

 

No one's denying the BF109 has advantages. The severity of them in regards to the combat effectiveness of the team as a whole is what's in question. The 109 might be easier to fly as a plane, but it's harder to win as a combat platform imo. Most strategy in the 109 revolves around ignoring your impulses. Russian planes are far more intuitive. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by GridiroN

[216th_Jordan]

No one's denying the BF109 has advantages. The severity of them in regards to the combat effectiveness of the team as a whole is what's in question. The 109 might be easier to fly as a plane, but it's harder to win as a combat platform imo. Most strategy in the 109 revolves around ignoring your impulses. Russian planes are far more intuitive.

Some things about flying and tactics are not to be treated impulsive. The stall is the best example, where you need to lower the nose instead of raising it further.

But then again an impulse is subjective. My impulses normally tells me not to go into dogfights with enhanced turning and that is where a 109 fits my intuition way better than most soviet planes.

Edited October 16, 2016 by 216th_Jordan

[GridiroN]

Some things about flying and tactics are not to be treated impulsive. The stall is the best example, where you need to lower the nose instead of raising it further.

But then again an impulse is subjective. My impulses normally tells me not to go into dogfights with enhanced turning and that is where a 109 fits my intuition way better than most soviet planes.

 

Where as my insticts tell me to get on someone's 6 and never let it go. If I have to get into a 200kph turn fight for half and hour, that is what I will do. In that regard, the 109 is badly matched to my instincts and I think the instincts of most people. 

[DD_Arthur]

The game may change but the "the German planes are at a disadvantage despite their superiority in every single way!" never does.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it isn't the planes.

 

I think maybe, just maybe, you might be right.

[FuriousMeow]

Where as my insticts tell me to get on someone's 6 and never let it go. If I have to get into a 200kph turn fight for half and hour, that is what I will do. In that regard, the 109 is badly matched to my instincts and I think the instincts of most people. 

 

Most people? No, just to those that think aerial combat is only chasing tails.

 

The 109 is a very, very good airplane. There's a reason there's an entire advanced air combat maneuvering book and not just a NASCAR style "just keep turning" guideline.

 

I'm far more confident in a 109 than I am with any Russian plane - I just "fly" whatever side is down in numbers when I join a server.

Edited October 17, 2016 by FuriousMeow

[novicebutdeadly]

Back on topic...

I think the 2 main problems are: 

 

- Team speak

 

- Navigation

 

Firstly in regards to team speak,

 

If you are on teams speak you are able to co-ordinate better (as has been stated), what hasn't been stated is that further to this point, the comment that 109 players are ignoring cries of help/ for an escort relies solely on a few assumptions, like:

 

109 pilots are in a situation to help not fighting for their own "lives" at which point they are too busy to reply.

109 pilots saw the message and chose to ignore

109 pilots are not trying to stop the Russians from attacking their targets

 

which combined with people who may not be familiar with maps (and servers that don't display your location combined with a more complex map system, no Longer "A 9 key 3....") leads to no escort/ help.

As a 109 player from il2 1946 I actually for the most part enjoyed escorting bombers, there was something that was so satisfying about ensuring that your fellow "country men" delivered their presents and make it back to base.

 

and it was also satisfying when flying a bomber (JU88 against ships or Bastogne) and receiving help from "little friends"

Like all fighters the 109 is a hunter and shouldn't be tied too close with the bomber formation, sweeping  a little ahead is the key.

Edited October 17, 2016 by novicebutdeadly

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

No one's denying the BF109 has advantages. The severity of them in regards to the combat effectiveness of the team as a whole is what's in question. The 109 might be easier to flying as a plane, but it's harder to win as a combat platform imo. Most strategy in the 109 revolves around ignoring your impulses. Russian planes are far more intuitive.

I have opposite experience and opinion - flying Yak or Lagg is nice - very stable flying platform,

contrary to 109 and 190 - wobbly pitch, twitchy rudder and pron to violent stall(190). When it comes to combat very often you have to know how to from deffensive position go to offensive on those Vvs frames. It is not a easy task. In 109 i have more room and B&Z tactics have bigger chance to succes.

Edited October 17, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[Dakpilot]

I often wonder what would happen if a "secret experiment" was done.. all fighter aircraft would have Bf 109 FM but VVS or  Luftwaffe visual model

 

and just see how the different 'attitudes' and 'tactics' would play out from both sides online 'personality/doctrine' 

 

totally impossible and a silly what if (and easy to poke holes in) , but fun to ponder 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[wtornado]

Most people? No, just to those that think aerial combat is only chasing tails.

 

The 109 is a very, very good airplane. There's a reason there's an entire advanced air combat maneuvering book and not just a NASCAR style "just keep turning" guideline.

 

I'm far more confident in a 109 than I am with any Russian plane - I just "fly" whatever side is down in numbers when I join a server.

Engine management is so much easier in German planes too you want to screw up a Russian pilots day change altitudes abruptly and he has to reset

his engine adjustments to bring back the plane's maximum performance where as you can push the throttle to the fire wall and concentrate on his tail.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Not true as the engine management only really becomes relevant above full thrtottle altitude (4-5km). Below that you only have to manage temps which is arguably an advantage since you can manually close your cowl flaps for increased performence any time while a Bf-109 pilot can't.

Edited October 17, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka__

[Asgar]

i wouldn't say the BF 109 pilot can't, it's just that most of them wont

[GridiroN]

i wouldn't say the BF 109 pilot can't, it's just that most of them wont

 

Trying to manually fiddle with the DB60x in combat is a pretty good way to break it. You're better off just learning how to handle it on auto. 

[GridiroN]

I have opposite experience and opinion - flying Yak or Lagg is nice - very stable flying platform,

contrary to 109 and 190 - wobbly pitch, twitchy rudder and pron to violent stall(190). When it comes to combat very often you have to know how to from deffensive position go to offensive on those Vvs frames. It is not a easy task. In 109 i have more room and B&Z tactics have bigger chance to succes.

 

I don't know if I would call BnZ a "greater chance of success"; it's just very low risk. Personally, I find getting into a 20min turning fight at 20m a lot more success-producing if you have the craft with superior low energy performance.

 

BnZ is only really effective, I personally find, when the enemy pilot is either distracted by someone else, or or doens't know you're there, otherwise i've had situations where he can't climb to me and when I fall on him, he just pulls the stick into this lap and deeks me, and we literally are typing to each other in chat because neither of us is being productive and we have the time to type out sentences between passes. 

 

Although, I will give Russians this: when I experimented with the LaGG and MiG myself on WoL, it was pretty mentally tiring to constantly worry about 109s falling on me from 5K, and the visibility out of both of these planes is pretty bad. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by GridiroN

[JG13_opcode]

Take that LaGG up to 5k and enjoy easy kills on Germans a kilometer below you.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

How could somebody find the Mig's visibility bad?

[Feathered_IV]

Where as my insticts tell me to get on someone's 6 and never let it go. If I have to get into a 200kph turn fight for half and hour, that is what I will do. In that regard, the 109 is badly matched to my instincts and I think the instincts of most people.

I think that sort of thing happens a lot. People fly at the nearest enemy and chase it round and round like Benny Hill. Then they blame the aircraft when the inevitable happens.

[CUJO_1970]

The game may change but the "the German planes are at a disadvantage despite their superiority in every single way!" never does.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it isn't the planes.

Must be your internet connection.

[LLv34_Taku]

It is really difficult to spot targets flying lower than you and makes it almost impossible to evaluate the situation you're diving in with your fighter. Also the 9.5km bubble is annoying when you want to enter the fight from above with maximum speed. You think there's only one or two enemies but later when you watch recorded track with icons you realize there was six or seven enemies in the area...

Edited October 19, 2016 by LLv34_Taku

[Irgendjemand]

It is really difficult to spot targets flying lower than you and makes it almost impossible to evaluate the situation you're diving in with your fighter. Also the 9.5km bubble is annoying when you want to enter the fight from above with maximum speed. You think there's only one or two enemies but later when you watch recorded track with icons you realize there was six or seven enemies in the area...

THIS. I really hope this bubble will be increased during the change to DX11.

[707shap_Srbin]

-pseudo-help, you are with your 110 at the target, get the message, I am over the target in 5k.

Greetings to the Knights of the Sky, from this altitude you can not protect the ground attackers. The only thing you can do is to "avenge" us.

But honestly, club Hartmann makes kills with scavenger style .We could live/die without the (sc)avengers and I believe the reds also.

 

The best solution is to play with some guys in Teamspeak. Most times it works very well.

 

True 100%

 

More to say - if You are using Bf110, then a group of 3-4 Bf110 can outfight some single enemy fighters. Yes, 1x1 or 4x4 on low altitude is almost a "hard way to sell Your life",  but with number/height superiority, Bf110's are not a sitting ducks.

 

Also, it need to choose Your target very carefully

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

Tell me a big active germanspeaking squad above 5 members and I possibly go and apply for membership:)

Do You mean - fighter squad?