The Challenge for 109 pilots

[hames123]

109 pilots! Many of you guys seem to just fly at really high altitudes and not complete objectives, or even care about them. Thus, my challenge to you is that you learn to fly the Heinkel 111, Stuka or FW190 and try to complete objectives and try ground attacking. If you do not want to do this, try escorting the above said bomber pilots.

[6./ZG26_Loke]

Flown many bomber sorties and not once been able to get an escort or atleast aircover in the target area. Goes for both sides.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Flown many bomber sorties and not once been able to get an escort or atleast aircover in the target area. Goes for both sides.

But russians are generally "around" the targets, while the Sky Knights are on much nobler missions, but without a clue where they are and supposed to go. 

[Max_Damage]

This challenge cannot be overcome. German aces touchy ego denies the importance of allied bombers escort!

[wtornado]

Standard multiplayer gameplay has just as far to go development wise as AI in this game.

 

Once again why I liked the old Co-op missions i made you were given objectives

like ''escort Stukas or HE-111's'' and targets.

 

Of course you got the odd B&Z player that would come out of a ''free fer all fun to fly''

server that would go off and do their own ''thang''.

 

Most that did join co-ops wanted objectives and briefings.

[Irgendjemand]

Agree. Too many germans flying high. Might be because the russian planes perform much better when it comes to turn and burn in low to medium altitudes (no discussion on this intended:P).

Also there are hardly any german organized squads that play actively.

Many stay in other games for known reasons or just quit the genre at all because of frustration. At least i know quite many that lost interest because things are as they are.

Tell me a big active germanspeaking squad above 5 members and I possibly go and apply for membership:) Problem is there arent any.

 

Stg2 - More or less inactive. Only few of them fly and when they do its only mondays.

JG4 - big and active. But not in this game.

VSG1 - few active pilots. Most part of them active in other sims.

ZG26 - AFAIK practically inactive with the exception of sporadic activity of single members.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Asgar]

what does German-speaking have to do with German squadrons?

 

are you not allowed to fly German planes if you don't speak German? Emil, McKvack, Giellow, Custard, I'm so sorry guys, but I guess you have to leave ZG26

[Irgendjemand]

what does German-speaking have to do with German squadrons?

 

are you not allowed to fly German planes if you don't speak German? Emil, McKvack, Giellow, Custard, I'm so sorry guys, but I guess you have to leave ZG26

I didnt say that. I was talking about german speaking squads. At least to me it seems there are much more organized squads that fly allied than german.

Maybe I mean another ZG26. IF I am wrong I am happy to be corrected!

 

EDIT: Oh and if I am wrong.. 6 guys. Yes, thats actually really a BIG active squad you got there:) Just kidding.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Luftschiff]

In my experience this has actually been gradually improving lately, and I hope the trend holds. Used to be you could beg for half a match and noone would deign to take up lowly escort duties - but over the past two months I've routinely been able to pick up escorts en route, or found one politely waiting for me after take-off, offering to escort me to the target. First I was surprised, then pleased and smiling like a shining fool to have angels on my arms all the way to the target. Kudos to all the brave and patient pilots who have helped me get there and back again in one piece!

 

That said, I've also seen so many videos (or first-hand accounts) of people spotting an enemy heading for a bomber and just... waiting for them to finish their attack because they'll present a better target. Yes, you'll probably get a kill, but by then the bomber is dead or on fire and at the very least too damaged to complete its mission. It's like their life or mission doesn't even signify next to the satisfaction of a kill and better stats. Don't get me wrong, I understand that it's better in some ways to rid the theatre of a plane and pilot - and I guess I can even see the appeal of hovering around, looking for targets of opportunity but I generally find it way more satisfactory to fly when I feel like I have a purpose - Whether that's protecting a bomber or flying one. It's why I enjoy the latter so much I reckon. Now, not everone is the same and I don't have the right to dictate how you enjoy the game, but I'd like to ask, all the same: If you -can- throw a few bullets past the enemy windscreen in time to save my poor Heinkel, consider it!

Those of you that do: You're amazing! We Bomber pilots love you!

[Turban]

It's all kind of true and makes playing the german side a pain.

Usually the only time I see germans is when they come down from wherever they were hiding to finish my burning targets while I try to deal (i.e survive) with the remaining russians.

 

I trully feel sorry for german bombers   it's always hard to watch them fly to their death.

 

German side has all the tools to dominate yet germans get spanked every single day... 

 

Russian side is not perfect by any mean but it's undeniable that there is a better more efficient team fighting spirit.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Turban

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I didnt say that. I was talking about german speaking squads. At least to me it seems there are much more organized squads that fly allied than german.

Maybe I mean another ZG26. IF I am wrong I am happy to be corrected!

 

EDIT: Oh and if I am wrong.. 6 guys. Yes, thats actually really a BIG active squad you got there:) Just kidding.

A bunch of us are going through changes in our lives, some have defective equipment. 

At the Moment Real Life has most of us away from Il-2 Duty, but I think we will get more active again some time. 

 

We are all still all in Contact and are on TS regularly and we are active internally and we will resume our Multiplayer Presence I think once Kuban comes out. 

Don't count us out of the race that soon, we will come back, worse than ever before. 

[Irgendjemand]

It's all kind of true and makes playing the german side a pain.

 

Usually the only time I see germans is when they come down from wherever they were hiding to finish my burning targets while I try to deal (i.e survive) with the remaining russians.

 

I trully feel sorry for german bombers   it's always hard to watch them fly to their death.

 

German side has all the tools to dominate yet germans get spanked every single day... 

 

Russian side is not perfect by any mean but it's undeniable that there is a better more efficient team fighting spirit.

All the tools to dominate? You mean the bomb loadouts that are locked on practically all servers? Or the Kanonenvogel that falls apart when only passed by an enemy fighter? Or its guns that barely scratch all those T34s??... In a game thats solely focused on beating groundtargets that superior high alt fighter is DEFINATELY a tool!

Id say there are plenty things that lead to the one side performing better than the other. ONE of them is the good teamplay. I give that the red teams! But thats only ONE of the reasons....

A bunch of us are going through changes in our lives, some have defective equipment. 

At the Moment Real Life has most of us away from Il-2 Duty, but I think we will get more active again some time. 

 

We are all still all in Contact and are on TS regularly and we are active internally and we will resume our Multiplayer Presence I think once Kuban comes out. 

Don't count us out of the race that soon, we will come back, worse than ever before. 

Good to hear!!!!

Edited October 12, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Last time we're taking out fighters we saw a lot of engagements ranging from 3.5 to 5 km altitude and in most cases faced small groups of Yaks and La-5s. So there actually isn't anything wrong with flying at higher altitude but with flying uncoordinated (we saw some sole 109s here and there getting tangled in 2vs1 fights).

 

Other than that, if you desire more squadrom activity why not join one instead of complaining?   Active members is what's driving them, not complaints on the forum.

[Irgendjemand]

Last time we're taking out fighters we saw a lot of engagements ranging from 3.5 to 5 km altitude and in most cases faced small groups of Yaks and La-5s. So there actually isn't anything wrong with flying at higher altitude but with flying uncoordinated (we saw some sole 109s here and there getting tangled in 2vs1 fights).

 

Other than that, if you desire more squadrom activity why not join one instead of complaining?   Active members is what's driving them, not complaints on the forum.

Like i said. Tell me one that active and got more than 5 active members. I might actually apply there.

I am in one but thats fairly inactive.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

I would suggest that it depends on what server u fly.

On an objective-oriented server such as Tactical Air War Server - where objectives actually Do matter, then it is easier to get support. People who enjoy these kinds of server settings and mission types, tend to gather up on those server(s) which provide "substance".

Notice; this is not a talk down on other servers one bit - we all have different taste and preferences... I just happen to enjoy the mentioned server -  and the "pilots" who fly on it.

Edited October 12, 2016 by SvAF/F19_Klunk

[wtornado]

When co-ops capability is released all this will go away with easy to understand briefings and

waypoints.

 

It is much easier escorting a bomber in your 109 in a co-op when the mission starts and the bomber is

in eyeshot distance from you.

 

FMB lite version would be nice too there is not enough objects or targets and the maps are not big

enough to make it so complex and all you need is about 10-15 waypoints from base or the starting

point to target and then back to base again.I wonder if you would lighten the FMB complexity if the

AI could be enhanced in a way sort of like a taking from Peter giving to Paul effect code wise.

 

Keeping it simple is the best way to go.

 

You can make as complex as you want on the ground as you want but in the end pilots don't pay attention

to what is going on down below in a closed cockpit environment they do not have time or can't see well

enough to notice.

 

TAW stuff is fun but you have to be on their schedule and have time to fly the missions.

 

Co-ops are any place,anytime,anywhere.

Edited October 12, 2016 by WTornado

[BlitzPig_EL]

What WTornado said.

[Livai]

A lot players fly alone and uncoordinated! Lone wolf hunter. Even bomber pilots fly alone sneak around the maps to attack the enemy from all direction with success. The biggest problem is how to group players together to fly together using teamspeak. Alone flying is suicide. I know this experience myself. There is a nice target but after I started my attack I notice a lot of contacts 5 to 7 km fast incoming if I attack this target now  I have to deal with a lot enemy planes alone. As a fighter I need to stay alive somehow but as a bomber pilot I care more to drop my deadly bombs on that target. That's the spirit

 

I am not sure why I need to deal with 5x angry VVS players or more alone and somehow this number increase everytime I fly with a 109 or 190. Last time I was trying really hard to protect a single Ju-88 from 3x VVS players was not easy but I managed to give him some time to drop his bombs on target.

 

Somehow I have much better experience playing VVS. Flying Germans is fun if you want to conquer many enemy planes on your own!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOjpPlCTQis

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Don't worry. ZG26 will rise again and dominate do something. Just like Klaus said, many of us has been busy lately but it seems like we will be airborne again in a little while.

[Trooper117]

I suppose, at the end of the day, it's up to the individual on MP if he wants to fly alone, be on teamspeak etc... Not all players want to be in a squad.

 

When IL2 was in its heyday, I was in an online Squadron (EAF 19 Sqn) fighting the good fight, co-ops, online wars, and I loved it.

But it's not the same anymore, and we all know the reasons why, its been discussed many times in previous threads... The dev's know this as well.

 

To get the kind of game play that many people are always asking for, and was common on a daily basis back then, you need the ease of access and type of servers that will make people like me want to get back into an online squadron again.

 

Another aspect to remember, is that this version of IL2 has a much harder learning curve to achieve for any beginner.

[Asgar]

since 14:30 today, i finally have internet again! now i just need my MFG pedals and i can finally take to the skies again, so that one more of us ready to fly again

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I don't think we need escort all the way to target. Good route planning can avoid interception. A sweep above the target just before bombers arrival would do the magic.

 

109s usually refuses to cover target area even when you request long before giving them time to get in position.

 

The funny thing is there is no easier kill than shooting down enemy fighters mesmerized following bombers.

 

 

Actually I am beginning to think most 109 pilots can't speak english because sometimes we have lots of bombers requests on chat and not even a negative answer from fighters.

Edited October 12, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

.. you need the ease of access and type of servers that will make people like me want to get back into an online squadron again.

 

.

troop, could u elaborate on what u mean with "ease of access"  and what kind of servers you would like in order for u to join a squad,

 

thnx

 

The funny thing is there is no easier kill than shooting down enemy fighters mesmerized following bombers.

 

 

 

this

[6./ZG26_Loke]

Even bomber pilots fly alone sneak around the maps to attack the enemy from all direction with success.

That sound a lot like me. Only I would say "with some success".

 

 

I don't think we need escort all the way to target. Good route planning can avoid interception. A sweep above the target just before bombers arrival would do the magic.

 

Spot on!

[TWC_Ace]

Standard multiplayer gameplay has just as far to go development wise as AI in this game.

 

Once again why I liked the old Co-op missions i made you were given objectives

like ''escort Stukas or HE-111's'' and targets.

 

Of course you got the odd B&Z player that would come out of a ''free fer all fun to fly''

server that would go off and do their own ''thang''.

 

Most that did join co-ops wanted objectives and briefings.

 

Exactly. I remember how much fun I had back then when ROF had only COOP mode. Once dogfight MP servers kicked in "furball" "rambo" "lest kill em all" style was back. Who cares for escorts, objectives etc....

Can we have COOPs without paininarse registrations for one time happenings in weekands...?

[Trooper117]

troop, could u elaborate on what u mean with "ease of access"  and what kind of servers you would like in order for u to join a squad,

 

 

Yes mate, I didn't elaborate as with Jason's recent posts over the last month or so, plus the dev updates announcing what will be in the pipeline, the type of game play that is being asked for in this thread, will be easier to achieve I believe... (co-ops etc)

 

I might have used 'ease of access' in the wrong context... but I meant integration to Hyperlobby, with all its game types easily accessible to all levels of skill... 

It was the place where everyone met with chat rooms etc that could be used while you waited for players to fill the slots.

 

We will never get this I guess, but it was a tried and proven concept that worked... best of all it was so easy to use.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Ah Hyberlobby. That was great! Would love to see something similar. If I am not mistaken Jason mentioned something about that in his 3 hrs TS marathon... so.. maybe(?)

Edited October 12, 2016 by SvAF/F19_Klunk

[Gambit21]

What WTornado said.

Yep, and drives home what a few of us have said over and over about needing CoOp's back. I got tired of arguing with the "just get on Teamspeak"

crowd whenever the subject came up. If they weren't there with the old sim, they don't get it.

[L3Pl4K]

If you ask other players per ingamechat for a cap, you get:
- much too often nothing
 sometimes, real help (thank you guys)
-pseudo-help, you are with your 110 at the target, get the message, I am over the target in 5k.

Greetings to the Knights of the Sky, from this altitude you can not protect the ground attackers. The only thing you can do is to "avenge" us.

But honestly, club Hartmann makes kills with scavenger style .We could live/die without the (sc)avengers and I believe the reds also.

 

The best solution is to play with some guys in Teamspeak. Most times it works very well.

[[TWB]80hd]

The Sky Knights aren't scary... the savvy carrion birds that know where the IL-2 watering holes are... those are the ones that scare me
 

Edited October 12, 2016 by [TWB]80hd

[Livai]

Like the music " Wir sind die Jäger " fly high how a eagle do. Circle around over objective! With your sharp eyes you see what happen below you. Pick your target and go for it! 

Over the objective you meet the enemy at all altitude. A lot player circle around at 5k over the objective going with each circle lower and lower.

 

A lot bomber pilots reach the objective and can drop their bombs before the enemy can shoot down them! A bomber who has drop his bombs over target is not worth to be shoot down. This do both teams wrong. I prefer to shoot down the enemy before they reach their targets. Each fighter or bomber that I damage and he need to return to his base is a win for my team. This give us some time to destroy the objectives before the enemy can do it. 

 

In the end it is more important to shoot down the enemy before he can reach the objective to drop his bombs.

[L3Pl4K]

 

 

A bomber who has drop his bombs over target is not worth to be shoot down.

Pro: Bomber/Player needs some time to go home.

Contra :If you bet on your statistic, you'll waste points

 

[Livai]

 

 

Contra :If you bet on your statistic, you'll waste points

 

Not a big contra at all. Fighter pilots have the task to intercept enemy bombers. Going deep behind the enemy lines searching for each bomber to shoot down them before they can reach our objective to drop their bombs on it.

Flying close to enemy airfields without be seen by enemy flak. You see how many planes are starting or going to start on this airfield and which way they going to fly. This information you can share with your teammates to intercept them on their way to our objective before they can reach it. Information about the enemy decide about the outcome of the battle. If our team know that the way is clear to the enemy objective there is no need to escort our bombers to the enemy objective. And this happends everytime because all meet together over objective nobody is going hunting bombers behind the lines. Bombers fly slower than fighter and this advantage can use fighter pilots to reach the enemy objective before our bombers do it to inform our bomber how many enemy contacts they can expect there. To this time our fighter planes have the task to clear the enemy objective from enemy fighter planes and can at the same time protect our   own objective from the enemy. Somehow are our and enemy objective very close together to attack here and to protect there at the same time.

 

Shooting down planes is not a big deal. Just a easy task to perform.

 

Flying very high just to circle around later going with each circle lower and lower is really a great way to spot planes at each altitude doing this where you can expect the enemy! Easy kills you can expect deep behind the enemy lines because there the enemy has more the focus to fly to the objective than to watch for enemy planes. Knowing how the enemy think is the way to win. Fly there where the enemy not expect you surprise them with your present here there everywhere to teach them a lesson ---> " Wir sind die Jäger und die das Essen " 

[L3Pl4K]

Not a big contra at all. Fighter pilots have the task to intercept enemy bombers. Going deep behind the enemy lines searching for each bomber to shoot down them before they can reach our objective to drop their bombs on it. Flying close to enemy airfields without be seen by enemy flak. You see how many planes are starting or going to start on this airfield and which way they going to fly. This information you can share with your teammates to intercept them on their way to our objective before they can reach it. Information about the enemy decide about the outcome of the battle. If our team know that the way is clear to the enemy objective there is no need to escort our bombers to the enemy objective. And this happends everytime because all meet together over objective nobody is going hunting bombers behind the lines. Bombers fly slower than fighter and this advantage can use fighter pilots to reach the enemy objective before our bombers do it to inform our bomber how many enemy contacts they can expect there. To this time our fighter planes have the task to clear the enemy objective from enemy fighter planes and can at the same time protect our own objective from the enemy. Somehow are our and enemy objective very close together to attack here and to protect there at the same time. Shooting down planes is not a big deal. Just a easy task to perform. Flying very high just to circle around later going with each circle lower and lower is really a great way to spot planes at each altitude doing this where you can expect the enemy! Easy kills you can expect deep behind the enemy lines because there the enemy has more the focus to fly to the objective than to watch for enemy planes. Knowing how the enemy think is the way to win. Fly there where the enemy not expect you surprise them with your present here there everywhere to teach them a lesson ---> " Wir sind die Jäger und die das Essen "

Heresy, clean areas from enemy fighter. Protect the own bombers. Using the Teamchat or Teamspeak. The Church of Hartmann will crucify you.

Edited October 12, 2016 by L3Pl4K

[ACG_Invictus]

109 pilots! Many of you guys seem to just fly at really high altitudes and not complete objectives, or even care about them. Thus, my challenge to you is that you learn to fly the Heinkel 111, Stuka or FW190 and try to complete objectives and try ground attacking. If you do not want to do this, try escorting the above said bomber pilots.

 

But....but....but....I want to fly High and Killz Me some Fighterz!!!!         

 

 

Heresy, clean areas from enemy fighter. Protect the own bombers. Using the Teamchat or Teamspeak. The Church of Hartmann will crucify you.

 

[ACG_pezman]

Y'all seem to know all the problems, maybe you should try implementing some solutions?

 

The VVS didn't just materialize teamwork out of thin air. It came from the obvious fact that flying alone as a VVS pilot is A LOT more dangerous than flying alone as an Axis pilot. So we started making connections, flying together, and seeking out people to fly with, for the sole reason of surviving and having fun.

 

It's just icing on the cake that most VVS pilots are more seasoned, being that the aircraft are more complicated to fly for a beginner in this game. Experience and numbers are our weapons.

 

Btw, JG52 is a very large, very active Axis squadron with a dedicated attack wing, ZG1. I recommend that the Axis bomber/attack pilots look into joining or linking up with them. They will escort, they will clear, they will play the objective.

 

If you're interested check out: http://www.simulatedaircombat.enjin.com

 

More squadrons for both VVS and LW are planned, we just need pilots to fill the slots.

[JG13_opcode]

It's strange to me that this is the way it is, because back when Warclouds was at its peak we had the opposite: Blue pilots had figured out years ago that the way to get kills is to escort bombers to the objective, and level-bombing from high altitude was the way to win maps for Axis. Nowadays it seems to be mostly unescorted Stukas on the deck, or at least such was my experience when flying VVS.

 

Stukas were my bread and butter.

Edited October 13, 2016 by JG13_opcode

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I didnt say that. I was talking about german speaking squads. At least to me it seems there are much more organized squads that fly allied than german.

Maybe I mean another ZG26. IF I am wrong I am happy to be corrected!

 

EDIT: Oh and if I am wrong.. 6 guys. Yes, thats actually really a BIG active squad you got there:) Just kidding.

 

We have 8 members actually....I don't know why you've even brought us up. When we are flying in force we focus on Co-Ops rather than DF server airquake stuff and have more than enough friendly squadrons to fly aircover and enemy squadrons to work against us.

 

It just takes someone to organise it and at the moment I am moving house so cannot do that.

 

P.S we are an English speaking squad and we're a ground attack squad not a 109 squadron although we fly everything in the game on both sides.

Edited October 14, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[hames123]

Whenever I fly my Stuka, I get no escort at all. The 109 chaps really are pests sometimes, not doing anything as you get attacked.

[Gambit21]

Face it, the 109 is the 'dweeb' plane of the sim, Not saying everyone flying one is a dweeb, but if you're a dweeb, that's probably what you're flying.