The Spitfire V in BOK

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

I'd rather ask for how long this setting will be permissible

3 minutes they say in the test for +12@3000, +9 @2850rpm is 1 hour (above 25,000 ft, 3,000rpm can be used), 5 min limit at +9@3000 rpm.

 

I mean the Spitfire Mk V could also get screwed hard with the original settings which had +12@3000 up to 1,000 ft, after that +9 for 5 min max.

Edited October 6, 2016 by RoflSeal

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

Nah, a DB605 sounds better in my opinion

 

I love the sound of Spitfires in the morning..it sounds like victory

 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I love the sound of Spitfires in the morning..it sounds like victory

Well played....still preferr the 605.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TlAh6uX2TI

Will be hard to get sth as immersive in BoS ue to FMod but once it's possible I'll sure give it a try.

[[TWB]80hd]

Stop being condescending

 

Maybe you should watch the context of what you have written. First you complained about he P-40 and you used the exact same wording for the MiG

 

Hauptsache jeder kann perfekt Englisch, damit du keine andere Sprache lernen musst.

 

Sorry, forgot how sensitive you kids were.

 

 

 

あなたは、ジェリーが私について何も知りません。

Edited October 6, 2016 by [TWB]80hd

[Beazil]

The A3 should mop the floor with the spitv in everything but turn rate. I'm not even considering the a5 differences.

 

Edit: that's not my opinion. It was a fact of the war. Hence the spitix.

Edited October 6, 2016 by II./JG53_Beazil

[FuriousMeow]

There might be a bug with the P40's 4 gun armament, it seems to be heavier or have a drag penalty vs the 6 gun - but even with engine limitations removed, it only barely hangs on at absolute full throttle which is still something it didn't run at for long.

 

As far as the A3 or A5 mopping floors, seems to be why so many whine when their "my plane is better than yours!" gets shot out of the sky by something that should have been mopped up because while performance is great, skill makes a huge difference.

Edited October 6, 2016 by FuriousMeow

[HBPencil]

Back to the OP's post, I'm not sure having a C wing unlock would be a great idea as it'd be a lot of work for the devs and arguably a bit too out there depending on one's tastes. It'd require visual changes to the wing for both the regular C wing and also the version with 4 cannon which in turn would require 3 versions of the default skin (B wing, C wing and 4x30mm C wing) and also changes to the strength, stiffness, weight, landing and ground handling qualities of the Spit depending on the wing selected.

 

As you'll see in this thread the Vb could carry a 500lb under the fuselage and there were field mods in N Africa and Malta to allow a 250lb under each wing... provided the pilot took it easy as the wings weren't stressed to carry that load. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25295-which-spitfire-engine-are-we-getting-our-mkvb/page-2

 

Unlocks I'd like to see, keeping in mind that the Vb will be facing up against newer, higher performing LW fighters would include:

- Clipped wings
- Merlin 45M
- Internal armored windscreen
- Bomb load as per above

 

I realize that these features weren't on Soviet Spitfire Vbs but hey, unlocks of some sort will be needed and the devs have shown their inclination to bend historical accuracy if need be

I to hope they get the Merlin sound right, I like how the 109 sounds in-game but the Allison sounds a bit 'meh' to me, which I found to be a pity as I prefer the Allison's sound to the Merlin's irl, although the Griffon and Centaurus are my favourites

Edited October 7, 2016 by HBPencil

[Asgar]

Sorry, forgot how sensitive you kids were.

 

 

あなたは、ジェリーが私について何も知りません。

Oh! I'm sensitive? And i thought you were the guy that insulted me by implying I'm stupid just because of an innocent joke Edited October 7, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

Well played....still preferr the 605.

 

Add these two to the mix and you have probably have the most sustained debate about WWII aircraft and or engines going  

 

 

Love the 109, personally think the P-51D was the best "escort" fighter but the MK.IX wins by a nose it for me. As for the Mk.V I think some folks are going to be disappointed.

[JtD]

Regarding Spitfire V in VVS service and boosts used, Soviet 1944 TsAGI figures only show and mention boosts of 9lb for war emergency, 12lb for take off.

[bzc3lk]

 

 

FW-190 mopping the floor with spitV?

 

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_mkV.html

 

"The Fw 190 appeared in September 1941, and outclassed the Spitfire V. Several changes were made to the Mk V to improve its chances against the new German fighter while the RAF waited for the improved Mk IX, VI or VII to arrive. One of the most significant was the long awaited arrival of a carburettor designed to work properly under negative-G, which much improved the dog fighting ability of the Mk V. Despite these changes, the Fw 190 remained a superior aircraft On 1 June 1942 during a raid on northern Belgium the Fw 190s shot down eight Spitfires for no lose. The next day another raid suffered just as badly, when seven Spitfires were shot down for no return. Raids over northern Europe would have to wait for the arrival of the Mk IX."

 

The floor was pretty well mopped on these two days . 

Edited October 7, 2016 by bzc3lk

[Asgar]

It was cleared for +16lb is 42 so we should be getting that boost.

You do understand that we have a land lease plane and that Russian documents say the planes used by the Russians were cleared for +12 right? Edited October 7, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[Dr_Molem]

Don't feed the troll.

[JtD]

Not true.

Please provide some sort of documentation. A VVS pilot manual would suffice.

[150GCT_Veltro]

If nothing will change (FW checked and fixed, as for Yak-1) we could have:

 

- FW-190A-3 will be outclassed by Mk.Vb;

- Spitfire Mk.Vb will not be much different from P-40;

- Yak-1b will outclass both FW-190A-3 and Spitfire.

Edited October 7, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Max_Damage]

+12 spitfire hmmm. then the speed wouldnt even exceed 500-510 kmh at deck?

 

Going to be quite bad against the BoS blue planes, let alone the A5 and 1.42 g4 ouch...

[Livai]

If nothing will change (FW checked and fixed, as for Yak-1) we could have:

 

- FW-190A-3 will be outclassed by Mk.Vb;

- Spitfire Mk.Vb will not be much different from P-40;

- Yak-1b will outclass both FW-190A-3 and Spitfire.

As long as this is historical correct.................

 

The Yak-1b will be a good taste for Yak-7 towards to the Yak-9UT

 

I am not sure if many will fly the Spitfire online because a lot friendly fire will happen because the Spitfire look like a 109 from the six perspective. As long as only 109 shoot themself down I see not a problem to fly a Spitfire.

[Max_Damage]

A3 cant be outclassed by a spitV ever if there is ~40-50 kmh speed advantage in favor of a focke wulf.

 

As for yak1 v spitV i dont know, the spit will be a very well turning plane and the speed advantage for the yak1 may be not enough to be able to leverage it effectively.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

I am not sure if many will fly the Spitfire online because a lot friendly fire will happen because the Spitfire look like a 109 from the six perspective.

I hardly imagine that, its not that hard to see that silhouette is quite different with those elliptical wings and gun barrels sticking out of the wings. 

[JtD]

If you see the wing shape or the gun barrels, you're not attacking from straight six. But, problem is worse with Spitfire IX and later because the two underwing coolers make them indeed look similar to 109's, the Spitfire V should be less of a problem.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Regarding Spitfire V in VVS service and boosts used, Soviet 1944 TsAGI figures only show and mention boosts of 9lb for war emergency, 12lb for take off.

 

Spit lovers, be prepared now for heartache...

 

9 ibs @ 5 minutes, then... POP! goes the Merlin.

 

Just as I suspected.

[bivalov]

personally i don't seen any mentions about 14/16 lb boost for soviet Spitfire Mk 5 and Hurricane Mk 2

 

moreover, well known that soviet Mk 5s is not new planes, so, apparently, Mk 5 can have a bit worse performance

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

By the standards they usually take (i.e. 'was this aircraft cleared for higher ratings at their native country, during the timeline covered?'), the Spitfire should get moderately good ratings.

 

That being said the whole discussion is blown out of proportion. You can still run circles around the opposition on the Bf-109G-2 without even entering combat power ratings, running the engine at 150% all the time isn't how pilots did it back then and that was mostly because the engagements were not swirling furballs yanking and banking into oblivion, burning every gram of energy looking to get a gun solution before stalling and starting over. The P-40 gets the short end of the stick here because back in the day it was already overweight and outclassed, and the only way it could remain competitive was to push it even in normal situations.

 

By the way, to the lad who said who said that Soviet pilots didn't care about limits and floored it without a care in the world, you're delusional Gaidaenko was very clear in complaining that the Airacobra I was a hassle to fly because the engine required constant attention to not go overboard and break the engine. Obviously this was called being cautious, but it shows that nobody was really into force-landing their crate just because they felt like it.

 

Over Kuban, the Sptifire Mk. V mostly had reliability problems, as the passages show. Thankfully for us, these aren't modelled in game.

As was to be expected, the British fighter concerned both the commander and the regiment’s pilots. Literally on the eve of our arrival, one of the pilots had suffered an accident in the Spitfire that had ended tragically. This negatively influenced the regiment’s personnel. Without concealing the aircraft’s shortcomings, we had to show them also its strengths, to emphasize that with skillful piloting, it was possible to avoid accidents even in the event of breakage of a connecting rod in the engine... Believing that the Spitfire was unreliable for reconnaissance, hunt, and escorting shturmoviks, they decided to use it exclusively for coverage of ground forces, so that if a connecting rod broke, the pilot could glide to the positions of our own forces.

 

This regiment had awful luck! The entire combat path, which it traveled from Shakhty to the primitive airfield at Chapaevka, which incidentally was the best and we managed to reach it in September, this entire path was littered with British fighters, which had executed forced landings with broken connecting rods. At Chapaevka, during the first takeoff, another three were broken.

 

 

The engine broke down after 50–60 hours of use, after which it was necessary to change out the piston rings, along with other assemblies: hydraulic systems, fuel pumps, and air compressor. The water pump was very complex in its design and, as a rule, broke during use. “There were cases in the process of use of breakage of piston rings, broken connecting rods, the consequences of the leak of coolant in places where the cylinder sleeves were press-fitted. There is no method for starting the engine from a wheeled vehicle”, says a summary of technicians of the 57th GIAP.

 

 

According to summaries, the greatest deficit was in wooden propellers. Over the course of May, the regiment did not receive a single spare propeller, despite the fact that they failed the most often. “Wooden propeller blades fail at airfields that have gravel [surfaces]... A large number of dents prevent proper use of the propellers”, it says in the summary.

[Finkeren]

Spit lovers, be prepared now for heartache...

 

9 ibs @ 5 minutes, then... POP! goes the Merlin.

 

Just as I suspected.

Hardly. Even under the most strict interpretation. We'll probably have 20-30mins at 9lbs and 5-10mins at 12lbs.

[Jade_Monkey]

Maybe we are using the word "outclassed" too loosely.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I just read this http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/ which is very interesting. Apparently yaks used to frequently attack the spits!

Edited October 7, 2016 by AeroDuD

[JtD]

By the standards they usually take (i.e. 'was this aircraft cleared for higher ratings at their native country, during the timeline covered?'), the Spitfire should get moderately good ratings.

I don't know what your sample size is for "usual", but the P-40 was modelled after a VVS manual which I think Han also posted in the discussion. Modelling a Merlin46 Spitfire V to a 9lb rating will give you speed and climb in the range of a Bf109E, with a better low speed turn and high altitude performance.

At any rate, it's all speculation and we'll only know when the developers decide. It's up to them and I don't think their decision can be historically wrong, just more specific or more general.

[Beazil]

If nothing will change (FW checked and fixed, as for Yak-1) we could have:

 

- FW-190A-3 will be outclassed by Mk.Vb;

- Spitfire Mk.Vb will not be much different from P-40;

- Yak-1b will outclass both FW-190A-3 and Spitfire.

Respectfully, the spitv will not out class the 190. You imply the p40 already out classes the fwa3. Typo perhaps?

Yak1b I don't know enough about to comment on but it should be an improvement over the current yak we have.

Someone counted skill earlier as a factor and I agree whole heartedly. I'm looking at overall performance as opposed to skill or flying style. The pilot's ability to use the airframe is assumed in these cases. S!

[KoN_]

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_mkV.html

 

"The Fw 190 appeared in September 1941, and outclassed the Spitfire V. Several changes were made to the Mk V to improve its chances against the new German fighter while the RAF waited for the improved Mk IX, VI or VII to arrive. One of the most significant was the long awaited arrival of a carburettor designed to work properly under negative-G, which much improved the dog fighting ability of the Mk V. Despite these changes, the Fw 190 remained a superior aircraft On 1 June 1942 during a raid on northern Belgium the Fw 190s shot down eight Spitfires for no lose. The next day another raid suffered just as badly, when seven Spitfires were shot down for no return. Raids over northern Europe would have to wait for the arrival of the Mk IX."

 

The floor was pretty well mopped on these two days . 

 

We know all too well the history of the 190 against the spitfire in Europe , I am hoping the 190 here gets its update that it deserves . Im reading books now and all seem too favour the 190 over the 109 . 

[bivalov]

performance of soviet Spitfire Mk 5 № EP356 - http://alternathistory.com/files/resize/users/user1884/neizvestnie-spitfairi-08_0-325x300.JPG + http://alternathistory.com/files/resize/users/user1884/neizvestnie-spitfairi-09_0-640x330.JPG - from very old russian article - http://alternathistory.com/spitfairy-v-vvs-rkka

 

plus 573 kph at 8000 meters (it is numbers from one document, but also look in chart) and radius of turn at low altitude = 218 meters (from text of article)

 

and in table was mentioned that is "боевой режим", i.e. 9 lb + 3000 rpm

[Max_Damage]

450 kmh at deck 

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

Hardly. Even under the most strict interpretation. We'll probably have 20-30mins at 9lbs and 5-10mins at 12lbs.

3 mins at 12lbs, 5 minutes at 9lbs @ 3000 rpm, 30mins to 1hr depending on the date for 9lbs@2850rpm

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

I think players who are expecting to sweep the skies with the Spit V will be disappointed, well, maybe not the experienced players who post here a lot, but less experienced players. The MkV wasn't a bad kite per se, but it was certainly not a world-beater. We'll get a fighter that probably turns well enough, but has a slowish roll rate and only fair-to-midling energy retention compared to, say, the 109F & G.

 

Still, taking a long view of the sim, it's a necessary addition to the air war in numerous theatres of operation.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

Edited October 8, 2016 by CFC_Conky

[ShamrockOneFive]

Hello all,

 

I think players who are expecting to sweep the skies with the Spit V will be disappointed, well, maybe not the experienced players who post here a lot, but less experienced players. The MkV wasn't a bad kite per se, but it was certainly not a world-beater. We'll get a fighter that probably turns well enough, but has a slowish roll rate and only fair-to-midling energy retention compared to, say, the 109F & G.

 

Still, taking a long view of the sim, it's a necessary addition to the air war in numerous theatres of operation.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

 

It's also a Spitfire V which, in 1941 was a top class fighter and despite engine updates. In 1943 its fallen a bit behind and the F.IX and LF.IX models are replacing the Spitfire V squadrons in RAF service (albeit slowly).

 

Still... its the right choice for the theater and I can't wait to fly a Spitfire again. When the Spitfire V was all that was available in IL-2 Forgotten Battles ... I made the most out of it. It wasn't nearly as deadly as when we got the LF.IX model later on (which could compete with anything nearly) but it was very good fun. Especially if you kept your speed up and only turned as a finishing move.

Edited October 8, 2016 by ShamrockOneFive

[Stig]

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_mkV.html

 

"The Fw 190 appeared in September 1941, and outclassed the Spitfire V. Several changes were made to the Mk V to improve its chances against the new German fighter while the RAF waited for the improved Mk IX, VI or VII to arrive. One of the most significant was the long awaited arrival of a carburettor designed to work properly under negative-G, which much improved the dog fighting ability of the Mk V. Despite these changes, the Fw 190 remained a superior aircraft On 1 June 1942 during a raid on northern Belgium the Fw 190s shot down eight Spitfires for no lose. The next day another raid suffered just as badly, when seven Spitfires were shot down for no return. Raids over northern Europe would have to wait for the arrival of the Mk IX."

 

The floor was pretty well mopped on these two days . 

 

8 July 1941 11 Spitfires lost (4 MK II's and 7 Mk V's) and 2 days later 10 Spitfires lost (6 Mk II's and 4 Mk V's). JG2 and JG26 were pretty effective mopping the floor.   

[MiloMorai]

For those that want to look at claims of Spitfires in the ETO, http://don-caldwell.we.bs/jg26/claims/tonywood.htm

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Even though there are some inaccuracies in this video it does seem to illustrate that after BOB the RAF was having a difficult time in the Mk.V  against the Luftwaffe in general and not just against the 190.

 

 

[JtD]

Well, they transitioned from using Spitfire as interceptors to using them as escort fighters, in fact, the whole operation turned from entirely defensive to mostly offensive during 1941/1942. It's certain that these tactical and strategic developments played an at least as important role as the men and the machines employed.

Edited October 8, 2016 by JtD

[Crump]

 

 

ven though there are some inaccuracies in this video it does seem to illustrate that after BOB the RAF was having a difficult time in the Mk.V  against the Luftwaffe in general and not just against the 190.

 

Without a doubt.  The German Day Fighter Corp was on average better trained and more experienced than your average RAF pilot at this time.  Any pilot group in that situation would have had difficulties no matter what aircraft they operated.

 

 

By late 1942 though, that scale tipped in the Allies favor.