BoS damage model (DM)

[Panzerlang]

I seem to recall discussions regarding RoF that were to do with a limitation in the Digital Nature engine that affected the fidelity of the DM. Something along the lines that bullets can not penetrate through more than any one surface of a plane and/or its component parts? Thus a round entering the rear of a fuselage, fired from 6 o'clock, could never reach the pilot.

 

If this is the case, has this limitation been solved with the upgraded version of the Digital Nature engine for BoS and will we see, as a result, a more realistic DM in BoS?

[Livai]

Take a look at the bin\game folder from BoS and RoF where the game.exe and the .dlls are inside. BoS has no Digital Nature Engine.

[Jason_Williams]

I seem to recall discussions regarding RoF that were to do with a limitation in the Digital Nature engine that affected the fidelity of the DM. Something along the lines that bullets can not penetrate through more than any one surface of a plane and/or its component parts? Thus a round entering the rear of a fuselage, fired from 6 o'clock, could never reach the pilot.

 

If this is the case, has this limitation been solved with the upgraded version of the Digital Nature engine for BoS and will we see, as a result, a more realistic DM in BoS?

 

Sorry Siggi, but this is not true.

 

Jason

[Panzerlang]

Well I'm buggered if I can remember where I read all that stuff or what other sim it applied to.

[BraveSirRobin]

Well I'm buggered if I can remember where I read all that stuff or what other sim it applied to.

 

Lots of people probably believe that it's a problem in RoF because it seems like it's more difficult to get a kill from the direct 6 than when shooting from a slightly offset 5 or 7 position.

[Jason_Williams]

Well I'm buggered if I can remember where I read all that stuff or what other sim it applied to.

 

There were lots of false rumors spread by people who wanted to purposely criticize ROF in the beginning without knowing all the facts about our engine. That is largely been put behind us now. Let's not wind it up again.

 

Jason

[Panzerlang]

Oh well, I could give a toss so long as the BoS DM allows bullets to penetrate a series of surfaces aka reality. Might have been easier if you'd just confirmed that it does.

 

Does it?

Edited November 27, 2013 by JG3-Siggi

[Cybermat47]

Does it?

In RoF, I've killed a few pilots after my bullets penetrated the back of their seats, so probably.

[Fifi]

ROF damage model is by far the best i've ever seen...so i'm very confident for BOS DM 

[Panzerlang]

In RoF, I've killed a few pilots after my bullets penetrated the back of their seats, so probably.

 

How do you know your bullets didn't hit them in the back of the head?

[Jason_Williams]

Oh well, I could give a toss so long as the BoS DM allows bullets to penetrate a series of surfaces aka reality. Might have been easier if you'd just confirmed that it does.

 

Does it?

 

Of course, but sorry I will always correct people's misconceptions about our engine.

 

Jason

[Panzerlang]

Well, the purpose of the thread was to clarify that I guess. Job's a good'un.

[AndyHill]

It would be great to hear about the details of the damage modeling if the people responsible happen to have some time at some point in the future. Might be decent marketing as well. Also for testing purposes I thought it would be nice to have an option for showing where the bullets hit, how they penetrated and what they damaged, a bit like in the original Il-2.

[BigPickle]

yeah +1 I'd like to hear about it for sure, ROF's damage engine had the drawback of the central cockpit of the fuselage remaining damage free, hopfully the damage model has been undated to include this area for BoS.

[Cybermat47]

How do you know your bullets didn't hit them in the back of the head?

They were flying D.H.2s. It would be impossible to hit them in the back of their head with the engine and the seat in the way.

[LukeFF]

BoS has no Digital Nature Engine.

 

LOL wut? Yes, BOS is based on the DN engine. Fact.

[dave9810]

The damage model for ROF is amazing, although the best i've seen is in DCS, I can't wait to see what it's like in BoS when i finally get around to buying it. if it's like ROF or better then i'm happy.

Edited November 28, 2013 by dave9810

[Sim]

The damage model for ROF is amazing, although the best i've seen is in DCS

 

Wait, DCS has the best damage model? I though the damage model was a weak point for DCS series as the jets usually just explode form missiles.

[Fifi]

Wait, DCS has the best damage model? I though the damage model was a weak point for DCS series as the jets usually just explode form missiles.

 

DCS damage model is fantastic about failures (i.e happening after beeing hitted)

But some visual graphic damages are very poor in my opinion, and that's the weak point of DCS.

Remains a stunning reference simulation anyway.

[BeastyBaiter]

It's good at modeling systems damage, but so is RoF. The reason no one notes RoF for its systems damage is because the systems consist of fuel tank, cooling (on liquid cooled engines), oil and engine on those planes. It's tough to shoot out the ECM, INS and data link on an Albatross D.III.

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

ECM in ROF is your rear gunner I guess! 

[Jaws2002]

Actually there were cases in ROF where you couldn't kill the gunner through the canvas of the plane. I don't remember if it was plane specific or not, but I remember testing it against a bomber on the ground. If you shot at the body parts that were exposed, the effect was normal but if you shot and hit the lower body of the gunner that was inside the plane nothing would happen. I tested this few times and it was consistent. The bullets didn't get in.

 

I don't know if it was plane specific, version specific or a limitation of the engine, but yes the bug was there at the time.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Jaws2002]

Perhaps he was sat behind armour plating? :-)

 

Nothing but canvas and plywood there.

 

[Fifi]

Could it be cool to loose some plane parts with BOS damage model?

Like in CloD maybe?

 

 

Well, if there is something to show behind of course...

[BeastyBaiter]

That looks cheesy to me tbh. The panel is removed perfectly with no signs of damage as if done on the ground with the proper tools. Doesn't look like damage, looks like someone simply forgot to put that panel on.

[ImPeRaToR]

[Primus_71]

CloD depicted damage well, but did not actually model it. You can continue flying just as well with 50 cm holes in the wing like they're not there. Hell, you can continue flying without a wing    IMO, showing damage should not outweigh actually modeling damage.  

[Panzerlang]

 

Now all we hope is that they have a damaged counterpart for each of those components. :pray: 

[ImPeRaToR]

Afaik each part in the DM has their own aerodynamic and mass properties, so if they fall off the physics are affected in that less lift is produced at a specific spot, and less mass is present, making the plane behave differently accordingly.

[JG1_Pragr]

Lots of people probably believe that it's a problem in RoF because it seems like it's more difficult to get a kill from the direct 6 than when shooting from a slightly offset 5 or 7 position.

 

I read RAF WWII reports of shooting tests of 20mm ammunition long time ago. They claimed that 98% of 20 mm HE ammo was useless when the impact angle on target was less than 5 degrees. Simply because the round ricochet outside effective area of explosion, fuse failure due low angle etc.

 

The same (and probably more) should be valid for AP/Ball rounds even if they hit the plywood. Hard to say what happens in case of lacquered canvas but still there would be many rounds ricocheting I would say.

[FlatSpinMan]

Wonder how advanced the DM will be in this weekend's access? It's certainly going to get an extremely heavy work-out, I predict.

[Panzerlang]

Wonder how advanced the DM will be in this weekend's access? It's certainly going to get an extremely heavy work-out, I predict.

 

I suspect there'll be a loss of the entire production of LaGGs and 109s of the twelve months production in 1942 in one weekend.

[Krupi]

That looks cheesy to me tbh. The panel is removed perfectly with no signs of damage as if done on the ground with the proper tools. Doesn't look like damage, looks like someone simply forgot to put that panel on.

Agreed, It would ha've been great if it was more damage than just popped off cowlimgs... Think of the atmosphere if you could hear the noise generated and banging of the remaining parts as you changed speed and direction...

[thx1138]

I suspect there'll be a loss of the entire production of LaGGs and 109s of the twelve months production in 1942 in one weekend.

 

 

LoL

[BraveSirRobin]

I read RAF WWII reports of shooting tests of 20mm ammunition long time ago. They claimed that 98% of 20 mm HE ammo was useless when the impact angle on target was less than 5 degrees. Simply because the round ricochet outside effective area of explosion, fuse failure due low angle etc.

 

The same (and probably more) should be valid for AP/Ball rounds even if they hit the plywood. Hard to say what happens in case of lacquered canvas but still there would be many rounds ricocheting I would say.

 

I'm sure there must be more ricocheting rounds.  Also more complete misses, because the target appears smaller from the direct 6 than from 5 or 7.