Nvidia DSR - are you using it ?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Thanks again for the feedback everyone.

I'm still not happy about the overall blur introduced by SGSS. It's good for the horizon when viewed at low angles, but for everything else I'm not so sure.

Personally, I'd be sticking to DSR. I prefer crisp images.

My image with SGSS is sharp and crisp - realy no diffrence on that against DSR. But i have native 3444x1440 resolution. I can post screen shots to prove it - but they are lagre ~ 12MB bmps.

[Picchio]

I find it almost impossible to believe that you see no difference between that and DSR - I used your exact same values in Inspector and overall sharpness is a whole different world. That's without post-process sharpening of any kind, including my monitor's settings.

What DSR factors did you use? With what DSR - Smoothness values?

And native resolution changes everything in this case. And considering that I'm downsampling from 2880x1800 to 1920x1200, it's technically impossible for you to see a sharper image than mine, with the same settings.

 

Quick note: when Driver Controlled LOD Bias is set to On, it means that LOD bias is applied automatically with SGSSAA. So setting Texture filtering - LOD Bias (DX) is redundant.

You can still tweak higher or lower values manually.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Picchio

[Picchio]

I imagine it looks awesome on 1440...no screenshot required!

 

It is required! For science!

[SharpeXB]

I tired DSR on a 1080p screen and found the in game AA produces a much better image without the performance hit. Even set at 4.0 DSR didn't reduce jaggies nearly as well and incurs the performance penalty of running the game at 3840x2160. If your graphics card can handle that, then get a real 4K monitor and see some real improvement. DSR is just supersampling rebranded. SS is not a good method of antialiasing which is why that processing was developed to begin with. Any perceived benefit running at less than 4.0 is just a placebo effect. Look at the antenna cable along the top of the aircraft and see if either method makes this appear as a thin smooth line. DSR doesn't pass the test.

[Guest deleted@50488]

Thx again GIAP, and others, for your hints and notes...

[Trinkof]

On my computer (i7 4970k 4ghz/ gtx 970) sparse grid supersampling (×2) kill much less fps than DSR. It lower my fps to 30 on ground if too many planes around me , but it is much smoother than DSR ×2 in the air , while looking cleaner and more crisp.

 

Thanks guys for sharing your thought and setting above, helped me to check my setting and polish some few things.

 

S!

[Picchio]

I tired DSR on a 1080p screen and found the in game AA produces a much better image without the performance hit. Even set at 4.0 DSR didn't reduce jaggies nearly as well and incurs the performance penalty of running the game at 3840x2160. If your graphics card can handle that, then get a real 4K monitor and see some real improvement. DSR is just supersampling rebranded. SS is not a good method of antialiasing which is why that processing was developed to begin with. Any perceived benefit running at less than 4.0 is just a placebo effect. Look at the antenna cable along the top of the aircraft and see if either method makes this appear as a thin smooth line. DSR doesn't pass the test.

 

Fine geometry like that doesn't "pass the test" of most AA methods anyway and downsampling makes sense precisely because your monitor's native resolution is smaller.

Like you said, DSR isn't the best choice if one simply wants to reduce aliasing as other (mixed) methods can produce better results and I agree with the fact that in-game AA works fine.

Personally I don't use DSR just because of aliasing, but that's highly subjective, I suppose.

Of course running 3840x2160 native on a good pixel-density display would be better. But you're missing the point here. And calling placebo any perceived benefit running at less than 4.0 is a huge silliness.

 

When I find the time, I'll try to collect some examples produced by either method in this game, if anyone remains interested...

Edited October 6, 2016 by Picchio

[SharpeXB]

Super Sampling isn't new. And it would certainly be the best form of antialiasing if not for the performance hit.

Consider that DSR at 2.0 is only equal to 2x MSAA quality but with a performance penalty of running the game at 4,147,200 pixels. A 1440p monitor only makes you run 3,686,400 pixels and is going to provide a vastly sharper image. The term "pixel density" has no real meaning. No video processing can put more pixels on a display despite what Nvidia claims

"shrinks the result back down to the resolution of your monitor, giving you 4K, 3840x2160-quality graphics on any screen."

That's the most hilariously misleading marketing language imaginable. In fact I'm surprised with how belligerent gamers can be that somebody hasn't sued them.

"4K, 3840x2160-quality" really?! No wiggle room in that language. They flat out tell you you're getting "3840x2160-quality" not "almost 4K" or "kinda sorta 4K" and on ANY display. ANY?! You mean my old 4:3 480x640 CRT is now going to be transformed into an Ultra HD display?! Amazing!

 

DSR at 4.0 on a 1080p screen is not even remotely close to what a real 3840x2160 display looks like.

Edited October 6, 2016 by SharpeXB

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

That's the most hilariously misleading marketing language imaginable. In fact I'm surprised with how belligerent gamers can be that somebody hasn't sued them. 

Because most simply doesnt care, whether you call it DSR, Super Sampling or Uber Game Sharpening it matters not. People only care for end results which is higher quality of game graphics they are running and DSR provides that. 

Marketing is misleading indeed, but unless some harm is created nobody will care enough to sue them. Especially not competition which benefits from it (calling VSR though). 

[SharpeXB]

Not enough people are running 4K screens to realize how misleading that language is.

[Picchio]

Super Sampling isn't new. And it would certainly be the best form of antialiasing if not for the performance hit.

Consider that DSR at 2.0 is only equal to 2x MSAA quality but with a performance penalty of running the game at 4,147,200 pixels. A 1440p monitor only makes you run 3,686,400 pixels and is going to provide a vastly sharper image. The term "pixel density" has no real meaning. No video processing can put more pixels on a display despite what Nvidia claims

"shrinks the result back down to the resolution of your monitor, giving you 4K, 3840x2160-quality graphics on any screen."

That's the most hilariously misleading marketing language imaginable. In fact I'm surprised with how belligerent gamers can be that somebody hasn't sued them.

"4K, 3840x2160-quality" really?! No wiggle room in that language. They flat out tell you you're getting "3840x2160-quality" not "almost 4K" or "kinda sorta 4K" and on ANY display. ANY?! You mean my old 4:3 480x640 CRT is now going to be transformed into an Ultra HD display?! Amazing!

 

DSR at 4.0 on a 1080p screen is not even remotely close to what a real 3840x2160 display looks like.

 

You didn't even read my post, while yours is full of loud, belligerent, inaccuracies.

And yes, pixel density is definitely a thing and it is important for the perceived result, whatever your native resolution. A monitor of X size and supporting X resolution doesn't necessarily produce a sharper image than a monitor of the same size with a smaller native resolution. Many times it's quite the opposite.

That's why something like viewing distance exists. That's why downsampling makes sense in the first place. If you can't understand or appreciate this, you'll probably support the fact that you need 4K resolutions (and monitors, of course!) even if the majority of in-game art assets (e.g.: textures) will not hold up.

Lucky you...

Edited October 6, 2016 by Picchio

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Not enogh people can afford them, all this and G-sync, A-sync gibberish talk by both companies results in pitched prices of those screens. I bought this spring new 24" Acer with standard 1920x1080 setting. I'd consider getting something better if not the price of those things. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by =LD=Hiromachi

[SharpeXB]

You didn't even read my post, while yours is full of loud, belligerent, inaccuracies.

 

I'm not trying to be belligerent. Just entirely factual. DSR is not going to give anyone "3840x2160 quality on any display" just like a Blu-ray Disc player can't give you a 1080p Full HD quality on your old 480i CRT TV. It's just an impossibility.

Have you seen this game on a 4K screen? I've tried DSR at 1080p and UHD there's just no comparison. I was genuinely surprised how ineffective DSR was even set at 4.0. One game I was really wanting to try it on was CloD since that game lacked AA entirely. But the results weren't great. And I was running dual 980s too which still suffered for performance.

DSR will give you marginally better smoothing but at a cost which makes you compromise by turning down other graphic settings. As an alternative you could run a game at Ultra graphics and good MSAA and it will look and perform much better.

Not enogh people can afford them, all this and G-sync, A-sync gibberish talk by both companies results in pitched prices of those screens. I bought this spring new 24" Acer with standard 1920x1080 setting. I'd consider getting something better if not the price of those things.

The cost of GPUs that can really handle 4K is still very high as well. The monitors themselves aren't as bad. But really demanding games will still need dual 1080s to perform well. And truth be told, in games other than flight sims the extra resolution isn't needed. Higher graphic settings at 1080p look better than med settings at 4K. I think the optimum res for enthusiasts is still 1440p

[Jade_Monkey]

Good discussion,

 

The tips here and the terrain.cfg discussion made my game look like a million bucks again!

Edited October 7, 2016 by Jade_Monkey

[Picchio]

Meanwhile, the game goes slo-mo even on a 6700K paired with a 1070... DSR or not.

Sigh, I hope the performance improvement they forecast is true.

[Jade_Monkey]

Meanwhile, the game goes slo-mo even on a 6700K paired with a 1070... DSR or not.

Sigh, I hope the performance improvement they forecast is true.

Using hard drive or SSD?

 

Whats your ram, speeds?

 

Try disabling hyperthreading on BIOS, it worked like a charm for me.

[Picchio]

Really? I have 6700k and 1070 also, and I'm getting a steady 60 FPS on ultra, distant grass, 2.0 DSR plus 4x AA.

 

DX11 perormance increases might convince me to splurge on a 1440p/144hz monitor though..

 

FPS isn't the issue; the engine going slo-mo is a different phenomenon. I'm almost certain everyone experienced it at some point, either in RoF or BoS

 

Using hard drive or SSD?

 

Whats your ram, speeds?

 

Try disabling hyperthreading on BIOS, it worked like a charm for me.

 

Well, my observation perhaps wasn't fair as what I described only happens in PWCG's missions.

Vanilla missions don't have problems. Still, I really do look forward to this DX11 implementation.

Thanks for the suggestion on HT though, I'll give it a test.

 

Sorry for going off-topic.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Picchio

[SharpeXB]

The slowdown I think is related to having too many aircraft at once. I experienced that with a i7-3770K when I disabled the overclocking. And running custom missions. Maybe just turn down the aircraft numbers in PWCG

CPU related bottlenecks (physics, AI, numbers of objects) are not affected by resolution so DSR won't help or hurt there.

Edited October 7, 2016 by SharpeXB

[Roland_HUNter]

Are u guys changed the desktop resolution for DSR?

[jokerBR]

10 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Are u guys changed the desktop resolution for DSR?

Hi Roland, I don't use DSR. Tried it once, and haven't noticed significant difference. To me, native res + good AA/AF managed through nVidia Inspector are still better image/performance wise than DSR (I don't use VR, and play on a single screen 21:6).

That said, you don't need to change desktop resolution to use DSR. You just create your "virtual resolution" and then use it inside the game, not in Windows. Hope I've got your question right.

Cheers.

[Roland_HUNter]

Thank you for the answer!
Then, another question: Are u using the ingame AA/AF?

[jokerBR]

I'm playing on 2560x1080, using everything on max settings ingame (except AA, which I kept at 2xAA), and in nVidia Inspector I have:

AA Mode = Enhance the application

AA Transparency Supersampling = 2xSparse Grid Supersampling

Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Filter Optimization - ON

Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Sample Optimization - ON

Texture Filtering - LOD Bias = -0.500

Texture Filtering - Quality = High Quality

Edited November 18, 2018 by jokerBR
Changed Texture Filtering Aniso Filter and Sampling to ON

[Roland_HUNter]

Thank you. Then I'll try it.

[Nocke]

All this seems to be really very subjective. I am on 1920x1200, using DSR at 2880x1800, and its by far the best image I ever had. No comparison to what you can achieve with those settings jokerBR describes, have gone through that. But yeah, just amazing. Someone further up writes he sees no noticeable difference with DSR, the someone here says its the best he ever saw. I had to set desktop resolution to 2880x1800 too to get it really working, b.t.w.

[Roland_HUNter]

5 hours ago, jokerBR said:

I'm playing on 2560x1080, using everything on max settings ingame (except AA, which I kept at 2xAA), and in nVidia Inspector I have:

AA Mode = Enhance the application

AA Transparency Supersampling = 2xSparse Grid Supersampling

Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Filter Optimization - OFF

Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Sample Optimization - OFF

Texture Filtering - LOD Bias = -0.500

Texture Filtering - Quality = High Quality

Texture Filtering - Driver Controlled LOD Bias On or Off?

[jokerBR]

2 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Texture Filtering - Driver Controlled LOD Bias On or Off?

On.

The reason I use -0.5 on LOD Bias is to counteract the small amount of blur caused by 2xSGSSA.

 

PS: Of course you can achieve better image if you go further on AA, like 4xAA and 4xSGSSA, but the loss in FPS isn't worth IMO.

An interesting read about DSR and SSAA (difference):

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by jokerBR
Include link

[Roland_HUNter]

I lost 20-30 fps with 2x SGSSA.

And what is the better? Super Sampling or DSR?

Edited November 13, 2018 by -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter

[jokerBR]

Hi Roland. Yes, SGSSA may tax your hardware. I'm afraid that there's no "absolute better" in this particular case. It depends heavily on your hardware and your taste. In MY case (2560x1080, gtx 1080, 16gb RAM, i5 3570K 4.4Ghz), the best results are achieved with what I described above. When I try to use DSR, my 1080 goes to 100% all the time, and I have severe shimmering on the horizon. This may or may not occur with other monitors/etc. Can't tell for sure.

During my tests (ran them again this week) when using my AA settings (including 2xSGSSA), I have exactly the same image than DSR, but without being 100% GPU all the time, and - better - no shimmering at all. So, I prefer using nVidia Inspector and tweak the AA settings instead of using DSR. As you can see, depending if you have more or less pixels in your monitor, more or less powerful CPU, etc - your mileage may vary.

This doesn't mean that DSR doesn't work - it works! - but in my case it causes a lot of shimmering, which I don't like at all. 
That said, DSR has a slight advantage because it makes spotting a little bit easier at distances, because it doesn't "round" things as much as SGSSA.
So, to sum it all (in my case):

DSR = 100% GPU, slightly better spotting ability, shimmering;

nVidia Inspector = 95%~100% GPU, no shimmering, slightly worst spotting ability.  (*note the word: slightly)

 

Try on your end and check what is better for your combo, then post your findings here.

Cheers.

Edited November 14, 2018 by jokerBR

[Roland_HUNter]

Thank you very much.
Btw I using now 2x SSA, I still have FPS, and I can spot more easily.

[Roland_HUNter]

Ah yea Override App mode with 2x SSAA:Not working, its disable AA.

I tried your options but its turning the AA off aswell.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

Didn't know about this feature until I saw this thread.  I set it to 2.0x with 33% smoothing.  My first impression was that the cockpit glass scratches were a lot less irritating to look at, the Moscow winter map snow looked almost spot on to the way snow looks when the surface turns to ice, and there was no noticeable loss of frame rate.  - MSI GTX960 4GB

[jokerBR]

14 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Ah yea Override App mode with 2x SSAA:Not working, its disable AA.

I tried your options but its turning the AA off aswell.

Hi Roland.

You should choose "Enhance", not "Override" AA on nVidia Inspector. SGSSA will be applied "over" your AA settings (as it should).

See here: https://imgur.com/a/jD7H0U1

 

If you use 4xAA inside the game, then you should use 4xSGSSA on nVidia Inspector profile, and set -1.000 on LOD.

I prefer 2xAA and 2xSGSSA because the impact is really small on performance, but the results are great.

[Roland_HUNter]

I ll try it, but u said do not use anisotropoic optimizations. On the screen that is enabled.

Edited November 18, 2018 by -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter

[jokerBR]

4 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

I ll try it, but u said do not use anisotropoic optimizations. On the screen that is enabled.

You're right, my mistake. Indeed I have them enabled... will correct the original post. They help in making the image clearer/crispier (with a little cost). Thanks for pointing the error.

[Roland_HUNter]

But this options saying in NVC, if u turn it ON, your image quality ll be worse

Hmm I have shimemring and fragmented  textures on narrow cables,(example BF-109 cockpit-tail cable) what can I do?(Not only in BoS)

[jokerBR]

Hi Roland. Yes, the option when ON may cause a little bit worse image, but ONLY if you have Texture Filtering Quality in other than "High-quality" setting (which I don't). Otherwise, when you're not using "high quality" in Quality setting (i.e., you're after more performance), then it's good to have the optimizations ON, reason why I usually let them ON all the time, just in case.

So, summing it all up:

 

If your card can support (with acceptable FPS) full AF quality, then use texture filtering quality at "high quality". Any other setting than this, then reduce the quality settings and activate anisotropic optimization to help aleviate the problem and get better FPS (of course you can try without optimizations, too). Keep in mind that if you have optimizations ON while using high quality, they will be ignored anyway. More info about all of this can be found here: http://www.tweakguides.com/NVFORCE_7.html

 

This site above has excellent information which will help you to understand and tailor your settings.

Also, don't forget that my settings are to be used in conjunction with the in-game's AA settings (either 2xAA or 4xAA). If using 2xAA in-game, then use 2xSGSAA in nVidia Inspector. If using 4xAA in-game, then use 4xSGSSA in nVidia Inspector. This is important, because non-similar numbers between AA and SGSSA will cause sub-optimal results.

 

On my end, inside the game I have all things on ultra/max, and together with nVidia Inspector settings from my earlier post, I don't have any jaggies. If you're still having jaggies, then it may be caused by the wrong profile being applied by nVidia Inspector when you're gaming, perhaps due to the use of some overlay or other graphic program that takes precedence over the game's on nVidia Inspector (i.e., nVidia Inspector thinks that the main app that it should be applying the settings ISN'T the game itself, but some other overlay/program, so it may be applying wrong settings, which in turn breaks your AA on game). Last time I saw this happening was with some "performance monitor" that I used to have few years back. Got rid of it since then. Try to run your game "clean" and check if the profile is being applied correctly (for instance, you can try to crank up some setting to make sure it is being applied, maybe FXAA Indicator ON, and FXAA ON, or increase LOD Bias to something weird, like +3000, whatever makes you confident that the profile is in effect).

[Roland_HUNter]

Thank you for the advices.
When I Tried 2xMSAA with 2X SGSSA I had more FPs then before...its looks like the game disable the AA.

[jokerBR]

57 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Thank you for the advices.
When I Tried 2xMSAA with 2X SGSSA I had more FPs then before...its looks like the game disable the AA.

This may happen if you choose to "override application settings" on nVidia Inspector. Make sure you're using "Enhance the application setting" on Antialiasing-Mode entry, then set the MSAA inside the game and the SGSSA on Inspector. If you find that 2xAA isn't enough, increase to 4xAA and 4xSGSSA. Note: although this isn't optimal, it you hit a wall using 4xAA and 4xSGSSA in terms of performance, you can try to use 4xAA and only 2xSGSSA and adjust a little bit on the LOD Bias. It's not perfect, but still better than no SGSSA at all.

Cheers

[Roland_HUNter]

Thank you very much!

[Roland_HUNter]

Btw, this is my problem in many-many games:
 

Check the forst shadows on my right and left. All the textures are tremble?!