Nvidia DSR - are you using it ?

[Guest deleted@50488]

I really can't complain about the graphics in il-2 - it's good enough for me, but I do notice some AA quirks here and there, and was thinking about enabli Nvidia DSR with my GTX 960 4 GB card.

 

Any of you using it with il-2 BoS / BoM ? Is it worth the use ?

 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I tested it on my Radeon 290X ages ago. It did work without too big hit on performance as you did not need to put on FSAA anymore.

[Picchio]

Always am. Just can't go without downsampling anymore! Just be mindful about AA methods, so that you won't butcher your performance.

If you want or need more specific advice, ask away.

[Guest deleted@50488]

Guys,

 

thx for your prompt responses.

 

I just tried it with my older PC, with a GTX 650 Ti - 1GB and it works very nice. Will try the same at my win 10 rig, with a GTX 960 4GB latter tonight. But it's an i5 2500...

 

Anyway, I do want to know more about the best AA choice when in DSR. In game I never use SSAO or HDR, but usually set AA at 4x. During my experiments with DSR I

set it to 2x, and even to no AA, and I still get good graphics. I didn't touch the Nvidia Inspector profile this time, and left it at default settings. At most and since I only have one monitor,

I can do what I have dome to other flight simulation games and use "single display performance" and "best performance" in power management.

 

Is using no AA or just 2x AA, with no SSAO and HDR a good choice ?  What would you recommend instead ?

 

Thx!

[Picchio]

I wouldn't recommend touching the driver profile (or Inspector) simply because doing so provides no real advantage neither in performance nor in image quality.

 

And if everything else is set up correctly in your system, Power management modes don't affect BoS' performance.

 

BoS' own AA solution is effective enough, as far as image quality goes.

I would leave its SSAO off, because its sampling quality is rather poor and provides no real visual benefit.

HDR makes no real difference in terms of performance, so that's up to you.

 

The choice of AA method and factor highly depends on the DSR factor you will be using.

What resolution do you plan to run the game at, and what's your native resolution?

Above a certain DSR factor, you could simply avoid using the game's AA and inject some form of post-processing AA instead (e.g.: SMAA, FXAA and so on - for these, though, I personally recommend using ReShade, because you can tweak each parameter thoroughly and especially combine them with LumaSharpen).

 

Another thing: in your NVCP/Global Settings make sure you set DSR - Smoothness at around 20-24%, as the default value produces a quite blurry image.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Picchio

[Guest deleted@50488]

Thx again Picchio,

 

I'm planning to run il2 at 2x DSR with my native resolution being 1920 x 1080.

 

Ok, will try a smoothing factor between 20 - 24 % instead of the default 33%.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I ran the game in 2560x1440 scaling on a 1920x1080 screen with AMD. Next to no FSAA was required unless really obsessive about jaggies

[Guest deleted@50488]

S!

 

 I ran the game in 2560x1440 scaling on a 1920x1080 screen with AMD. Next to no FSAA was required unless really obsessive about jaggies

 

Thx Flanker,

 

but, how would you apply FSAA ?  Using the ingame options or through the similar of NI for AMD cards ?

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I kept everything application controlled in the GPU panel. Used in-game options only.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I consider upgrading my GTX 660 to 1060 or to AMD RX 480, got standard 1920x1080 monitor bought this spring. With i5 4670 and 16 GB or RAM how far you think I could push with DSR/VSR ?

 

Also, would you mind posting some pictures to show ingame difference. I saw bunch of videos on youtube but couldnt grasp all that much of a difference, albeit youtube in its nature reduces quality of all videos so that might explain. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I wouldn't recommend touching the driver profile (or Inspector) simply because doing so provides no real advantage neither in performance nor in image quality.

Did you forgot about sparce grid supersampling which is best remedy for shimmering on the horizon?

[Guest deleted@50488]

Did you forgot about sparce grid supersampling which is best remedy for shimmering on the horizon?

 

Again, that would require using the Nvidia Control Panel or Nvidia Inspector ( for Geeforce users ) right ?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Inspector.

[TG-55Panthercules]

Haven't tried it in a while - there was an old thread around here with a lot of discussion about the pros and cons - maybe 2 years ago or so.  I tried it back then, and saw no benefit, but ymmv.

 

Some of the old threads:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17728-virtual-super-resolution/?hl=%2Bdownsampling&do=findComment&comment=279745

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12968-down-sampling/?hl=%2Bdownsampling&do=findComment&comment=202995

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12384-anyone-tried-nvidia-dsr-bos-using-new-34418-drivers/page-2?hl=%2Bnvidia&do=findComment&comment=201131

[Guest deleted@50488]

Again, thanks a lot for all your answers !

 

Will have to really consider going DSR or staying as I am right now...

[Picchio]

I consider upgrading my GTX 660 to 1060 or to AMD RX 480, got standard 1920x1080 monitor bought this spring. With i5 4670 and 16 GB or RAM how far you think I could push with DSR/VSR ?

 

Also, would you mind posting some pictures to show ingame difference. I saw bunch of videos on youtube but couldnt grasp all that much of a difference, albeit youtube in its nature reduces quality of all videos so that might explain. 

 

The in-game difference is a sharper image with noticeably less aliasing. And the impression you will have will also highly depend on your monitor's pixel density.

As for the two GPUs you mention, I have no experience with them so I can't really help.

I've been using a GTX 970 until recently, but with a completely different CPU - plus it's absurdely difficult to get consistent performance from the game's engine as it is, so it's hard to predict what performance you're going to get unless somebody with a very similar rig reports on his/her experience. And until the devs finally decide to be realistic about the declared engine's requirements.

 

Did you forgot about sparce grid supersampling which is best remedy for shimmering on the horizon?

 

It's simply not worth the performance cost - it scales with resolution and butchers performance. DSR, at least for me, plus a few ReShade touches, gets rid of the issue just fine.

And I still don't really understand what you mean by "shimmering on the horizon"... if that's what you refer to as those few potato fields that tend to look terribly aliased when visualized at low angles, then see above. Otherwise, please explain...

Edited October 1, 2016 by Picchio

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

It's simply not worth the performance cost - it scales with resolution and butchers performance. DSR, at least for me, plus a few ReShade touches, gets rid of the issue just fine.

And I still don't really understand what you mean by "shimmering on the horizon"... if that's what you refer to as those few potato fields that tend to look terribly aliased when visualized at low angles, then see above. Otherwise, please explain...

For my squad mates who are at 2560x1440 resolution, only sparse grid supersampling is solution for shimmering ground looking toward horizon. You shuld know this issue becouse it was apparent in Rise of Flight to (also there are many threads about it). Speaking about perforamnce penatly it is not that big becouse they are using it... In my case i'm also using it but only at 2 x setting together with in game AA (2) - i'm on 3444x1444 monitor. I't cost performance (i still have good fps do) but it is solving the problem.

Edited October 1, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[SAG]

DSR saved me from buying a new monitor with higher resolution. its a godsend for spotting! :D

[ST_ami7b5]

For my squad mates who are at 2560x1440 resolution, only sparse grid supersampling is solution for shimmering ground looking toward horizon. You shuld know this issue becouse it was apparent in Rise of Flight to (also there are many threads about it). Speaking about perforamnce penatly it is not that big becouse they are using it... In my case i'm also using it but only at 2 x setting together with in game AA (2) - i'm on 3444x1444 monitor. I't cost performance (i still have good fps do) but it is solving the problem.

 

DSR works fine for me in BoS, but when I tried it in RoF then in-game texts/labels became too small for me to read confortably...

Edited October 2, 2016 by ST_ami7b5

[Guest deleted@50488]

Well, I tested it and adopted it :-)

 

Set the Nvidia control panel for 1.25, 1.5 and and up to 2.0 factor, 22% smoothness, and I am at 1,25 and lowered AA in game to 2.

 

Although contrarily to other sims I have used, and my close vision age ( rapidly ) increasing limitations, I never had problems in IL2 identifying other aircraft in the distance ( as a matter of fact, and just like in Rof too, a great feature of this sim ) I believe I can now even better identify them! although my monitor is 1920 x 1080.

 

Thank you all for your opinions and support!

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

In my case DSR 1.50 looks bit worse than sparse grid supersampling and cost more frames.

Edited October 2, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[Guest deleted@50488]

While I used VSync in X-Plane and FSX / P3D, I noticed it cause stuttering in il-2, so I prefer to set in game fps limit to 30.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Was running in-game 4x AA and 2x sparse grid supersampling before.

Amount of AA should match exacly same number of SGSS. There you have to change Lod bias respectively too.

Edited October 3, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[DD_Arthur]

Interesting.  This thread made me revisit DSR as I'm now using a 7700GTX as opposed to my original 6600ti.

 

i run Reshade and have DSR running at x 2.  At this level I can do away with anti-aliasing.  I also run the game with full screen unchecked which means i can also run without V-Sync and get no "tearing".  Also unchecked SSAO and HDR as they don't seem to do anything anyway.

 

The net result is the game looks very good at the higher resolution without any sacrifice in FPS.  However, monitoring my graphics card performance shows its running at the far end of its ability in terms of temps and memory useage.  Prbably not too good for its long term health!

 

i wonder if they advent of DX11 will give it an easier time?

[Picchio]

Amount of AA should match exacly same number of SGSS. There you have to change Lod bias respectively too.

 

Do you mind sharing your Inspector profile settings for BoS? Just to make sure we're looking at the same thing

 

EDIT: Tested a few MSAA + SGSS (Inspector only, no in-game AA) combinations and I advise strongly against it. SGSS produces a very blurry result. Yes, the "shimmering on the horizon" is noticeably reduced, but that could be the single positive aspect. But blur doesn't equal quality, to me.

And SGSS does butcher performance anywhere above 1080p, when you're on the ground. It obviously gets better in the air, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Picchio

[jokerBR]

Last time I checked, DSR had a higher FPS cost than SGSS, but things may have changed in latest drivers, to the point I feel compelled to try again.

About SGSS, I use it and I like it. Yes, it has a FPS cost, specially when you're on the ground - but when used in pair (correctly, i.e., same number) with AA, *and* with negative lod bias to counteract the blur, then it really is worth it.

For instance, if you use 2xAA, use 2xSGSS and -0,5~ or -0,6~ lod bias. If you use 4xAA, then use 4xSGSS and -1 lod bias.

I personally use only 2xAA and 2xSGSS with -0.6250 lod bias (4x gets too heavy on my 770GTX when on the ground). Result: very good image with 60 fps all the time, almost no shimmering at all, and no blur.

 

Yes, you'll need inspector to adjust lod bias.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Do you mind sharing your Inspector profile settings for BoS? Just to make sure we're looking at the same thing

 

EDIT: Tested a few MSAA + SGSS (Inspector only, no in-game AA) combinations and I advise strongly against it. SGSS produces a very blurry result. Yes, the "shimmering on the horizon" is noticeably reduced, but that could be the single positive aspect. But blur doesn't equal quality, to me.

And SGSS does butcher performance anywhere above 1080p, when you're on the ground. It obviously gets better in the air, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.

My image is clear - no blur. Try in gane AA otherwise there have to be changed other bits flags.

[Picchio]

My image is clear - no blur. Try in gane AA otherwise there have to be changed other bits flags.

 

Hm... I'll do a few more tests when I have the time. Meanwhile, if you could kindy share your Inspector settings I would highly appreciate it...

[Picchio]

Thanks!

Ah, I was using different compatibility flags for AA, but the factors were the same. I'll try yours and see if I still get that blurred result (with LOD bias at -0.500).

One question: is there a specific reason why you're using -0.6250 for LOD bias, with 2x MSAA+SGSS? And what resolution are you running the game at?

Edited October 4, 2016 by Picchio

[Guest deleted@50488]

Thx for sharing GIAP!

 

Why that modified LOD bias of 6.xxxx ?

[jokerBR]

Hi guys, this thread is getting better and better.

I still have to try the DSR to check the 'more to see' feeling that Rekt mentioned, but it makes sense, since DSR doesn't blur edges to provide antialiasing effects. Instead, DSR acts like a supersampling method, rendering the original image bigger then resizing it again (shrink). This may explain why the edges look sharp, but at the same time why there's still a little bit shimmering around. Taking into account that in a combat simulator 'who sees first usually gets the advantage', DSR may end up being more suitable for MP.

By the way, the reason for negative lod when using SGSS is to counteract the blur that SGSS brings to the table. The amount (-0.6xxx, -0.5xxx) depends on taste and system results. Rule of thumb is about -0.5 for every 2xSGSS that you apply, so roughly -0.5 for 2x, -1 for 4x, and so on - but don't simply follow the rule, experiment and see what gives better results on your system (even more than -0.6 with 2x is possible).

 

At the present time, these are the settings I'm using on Inspector (all the rest is default), along with 1920x1080 ULTRA, 2xAA, 4x landscape, HDR on, SSAO and distant grass disabled inside game.

 

Negative LOD seeks to counteract the 'fuzziness' caused by SGSS AA by sharpening the image. Too much can introduce aliasing/shimmer so it is a balancing act.

The negative LOD bias probably explains the slight aliasing that I've seen on distant contacts compared to DSR. I will try lower values to see how those look.

 

Beat me.

Edited October 4, 2016 by jokerBR

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Hm... I'll do a few more tests when I have the time. Meanwhile, if you could kindy share your Inspector settings I would highly appreciate it...

 

In game 3444x1440 ULTRA, 2xAA, 4x landscape, SSAO off, HDR on. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[Guest deleted@50488]

Here's what I tested, Picchio. I restored the Il-2 BOS defaults (by clicking the green Nvidia icon in the menu bar), then made the changes you see here. The only relevant information is in this screenshot, all the other settings are grayed out/default.

 

Settings1 copy.jpg

 

So far the Best Match for my rig - i5 2500 @ 3,3 GHz, with GTX 960 4GB graphics.  Running Win 10 Pro 64  latest release.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I tried it on my GTX 660 (with i5 4670, 12 GB ram) scaling 1920x1080p to 2560x1440p, reducing smoothness to 21 % and leaving 2x  MSAA and SGSS, with -0.6250 for LOD bias. I would have to fly for some time in multi to be sure of differences but on the first glance I could see targets at greater ranges (subjective opinion), at least a bit. Performance was better than expected, I had in lone flight at 2 km aboout 51-56 FPS, when fighting with 3+ aircraft that was dropping to ~40s and if there was damage involved (fuel leaks, coolant leaks, smoke, etc.) at close range FPS dropped below 30. Same over the ground, I had 20-40 FPS. 

So its not playable now, especially on multi, but I'm positive with a switch to RX 480 / 1060 I can keep it up.

[Guest deleted@50488]

One question - how do you get the FPS reading ?

 

I do not have the Steam version of IL-2 but I do have a Geeforce. I believe it is possible to set with "Experience" right ?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Yes, Geforce experience. Somewhere in the options there is a window where you can set where position of fps will be displayed (I got indicator in right top corner).

[Guest deleted@50488]

Ok, thx Hiromachi!

[Picchio]

Thanks again for the feedback everyone.

I'm still not happy about the overall blur introduced by SGSS. It's good for the horizon when viewed at low angles, but for everything else I'm not so sure.

Personally, I'd be sticking to DSR. I prefer crisp images.

[Guest deleted@50488]

After some more testing last night I've reached the same conclusion really - DSR seems to be better on my machine for spotting, so I can live with the occasional shimmers.

 

SGSS AA would be great for making epic videos!

 

GIAP, since your Nvidia Inspector profile was my preferred, the one you posted above to use without DSR, could you be so kind as to post now what profile you're using with DSR ?

Thx!

[ACG_Invictus]

No DSR for me.  I'd love to try it, but I run triple-screen and last time I checked DSR isn't supported for Surround setups.