Warthog or Gladiator

[Dutchvdm]

Heavy extension springs tends make noise, eg. VKB T-Rudder.

 

Try lubricate then, or insert a piece of foam cushion inside, this muffler the sound.

 

Other thing that can help: http://i83.fastpic.ru/big/2016/0830/5f/4543048dff6c64dcbc59a58cf735445f.jpg

Hi Sokol1,

 

Thnx. Good to hear that i didn't do anything wrong. I just might swap the old cams with the stiffer springs. That might be the best option. Are the green springs the middle strength ones?

 

Grt M

[Sokol1]

See there: http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2180#p21576

[Dutchvdm]

Hi Sokol,

 

Thnx. I found the meaning of the spring colors yesterday and installed the standard cams with the green (Medium) springs. The stick is perfect now.

 

Grt M

[gnomechompsky]

Can anyone who has used both the Warthog and Gladiator Pro give a no BS assessment about whether I should change my Warthog (inc throttle) for a Gladiator Pro (selling on eBay would probably be cost neutral).

 

My gripes with the Warthog are:

 

Feels like there is a lot of tension in the stick, my arm becomes tired after a while.

Stickion - not as bad as I was expecting based on what some people were saying but still noticeable

It's size, mainly the throttle taking up a lot of space on my desk (I use my computer for plenty of other things)

 

That said, despite the size using the throttle is comfortable and "ergonomic".  The crappy little dial on the Gladiator is a bit off-putting.

 

Other than the separate axis on the throttle (which I use for mixture) I don't really use any of the buttons on the throttle.  

 

I have thrustmaster rudder pedals which I am happy with.

 

Thoughts?

Edited January 8, 2017 by gnomechompsky

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Can anyone who has used both the Warthog and Gladiator Pro give a no BS assessment about whether I should change my Warthog (inc throttle) for a Gladiator Pro (selling on eBay would probably be cost neutral).

 

My gripes with the Warthog are:

 

Feels like there is a lot of tension in the stick, my arm becomes tired after a while.

 

Get this

 

https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/

[gnomechompsky]

Getting that will make It even bigger though, which was my third gripe.

 

I also play with it on my desk so making it higher isn't really practical.

 

And I really don't want my desk resembling a cockpit even more.

[Sokol1]

You can try address Warthog flaws with know "fixes" - re-grease gimbal, adding a extension, what require use stick off desktop.

 

They main advantage of Gladiator PRO (or Gunfighter) is the new gimbal system, that despite innovative is customisable - can have "hard" or "soft" center, change spring tension. Mechanically far away from ones used in other joysticks, include there Warthog.

 

Now compare the Gladiator stick with Warthog don't make much sense, one is "entry level"  and the other "HOTAS". Based on what you say you dont have much need of a HOTAS".

 

Best advise is, get G.PRO,  you can use together with Warthog throttle, and can use Warthog grip on Gladiator base. Latter decide if want keep both.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Sokol1

[Guest deleted@1562]

If the Warthog feels too stiff, you could remove the big center spring (still has four smaller springs) and have a very light joystick. I did this mod a while back and never looked back since:

[Lusekofte]

Do you fly DCS A 10? or other jets in DCS?

If you can afford it I would have kept it and bought Baur base or Gladiator / gunfighter . The grip in Warthog is as you know pretty practical. It is the problem with the gimbal that bugs me. Not the gimbal itself, but Thrustmasters not fixing the issue.

I personally think you will enjoy Gladiator pro or the new Gunfighter in WW2 games, but you will miss all the buttons. And for god sake keep the throttle

Edited January 9, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[ShamrockOneFive]

I bought the Gladiator and pair that with my old X-52 throttle and it's working out great. I'd like to get the VKB throttle system when they release that (if its good) but in the meantime, the two work in tandem just fine.

 

I reviewed the Gladiator on my site (https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/%EF%BB%BFreview-vkb-gladiator/) but in general I'd say its a good stick for the money, it doesn't have as many buttons as some but the shift and mode options plus the no hassle no driver requirement (in Windows at least) means that you just plug it in, bind some keys, and go.

Edited January 9, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[Matt]

I would wait for the VPC T-50.

 

I'm using a Gladiator Pro with Warthog grip and I'm not particularly happy right now. Will run a few more tests with it, but I think the heavy weight of the grip and strong springs don't work well with the cam system of the Gladiator and it causes oscillating movements when you make quick inputs.

[gnomechompsky]

Thanks for the suggestions, there is a lot of useful info here.  

 

I don't want to have no tension in the stick, but that post did make me aware that I could change the springs to reduce the tension.  I may look to do this.

 

Its interesting that you said I should keep the throttle.  It kind of annoys me how big it is and I only really use on button on it but I guess I could see it being one of those things I regret losing, especially as the gladiator throttle looks pretty poor.

 

I also don't fly DCS nor do I really care for modern planes (at the moment at least), and if I were to get a Gladiator Pro I would want to sell the whole HOTAS.  I can't really justify a separate system on my budget.  

[Sokol1]

I would wait for the VPC T-50.

 

I'm using a Gladiator Pro with Warthog grip and I'm not particularly happy right now. Will run a few more tests with it, but I think the heavy weight of the grip and strong springs don't work well with the cam system of the Gladiator and it causes oscillating movements when you make quick inputs.

 

VPC CAM system will not solve this "pendulum" issue - what is caused be excessive weight of TMW grip, other "advantage" of that "is metal, is real".

 

VPC gimbal is designed for T-50 (plastic) grip, use TMW grip is the same "workaround" that is use in Mamba/Gladiator. 

 

Rest see how this new "dry clutch" of Gunfighter will handle this issue. Their "W" CAM profile at least try deal with TMW grip imbalance.

 

Seems Gnomechompsky wants a desktop solution, T-50 can be used as desktop, but ideally is for use in more lower position. Their overall height surpass TMW reasonable, will result uncomfortable

 

http://imgur.com/5ZvaZky

 

VPC "The developers recommend use of VPC Mongoose-50 together with the brackets VPC Desk Mount, which will together VPCockpit. "

 

VKB (WiP)  throttle will be much more interesting for use with WWII planes than "A-10, F-16" throttles, this silhouette give a idea.

 

http://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-throttle-quadrant

Edited January 9, 2017 by Sokol1

[Matt]

 

 

VPC CAM system will not solve this "pendulum" issue - what is caused be excessive weight of TMW grip, other "advantage" of that "is metal, is real".

It only happens on the roll axis though, the pitch axis with the W cam works fine and doesn't show this pendulum at all. So it seems to be more of a cam issue than anything else. I'll test the 30 cams on the roll axis to see if it helps.

 

Also this pendulum does happen with the Gladiator grip if you use the heavy springs with the 10 cams.

 

 

VPC gimbal is designed for T-50 (plastic) grip, use TMW grip is the same "workaround" that is use in Mamba/Gladiator. 

 

I wasn't talking about using a VPC + Warthog combo, i don't see any good reason to use the Warthog grip instead of the VPC T-50 grip, atleast not for BoS, where the analog brake lever of the T-50 will be a huge advantage when flying planes without toe brakes (or when not owning pedals with toe brakes). As for desktop mount, i don't think the Gladiator+Warthog grip works well for desktop mount either. The Gladiator is already pretty high and with the Warthog grip, it gets a bit higher still.

[Sokol1]

I know that VKB will design new CAM profiles to be offered as optional, with linear response instead the actual "progressive" - done in this way due the "virpilovs" desire for "weigh resistance fell" - post your observations about in their forum, asking for a different CAM profile for X axis using Warghog grip.

[gnomechompsky]

Does anyone know if it is possible to mod out the Y axis centering in the Warthog?  i.e. the physical "stop" that makes it hard to do a smooth transition from pitch up to pitch down and vice versa.

[Sokol1]

Nope, Warthog gimbal don't make difference from X to Y axes, since is used a ball-joint and only one spring compressed by disk.

 

This system work like a oscillating "piston", why after move, e.g. the X axis ~30%, if move in Y are not resistance, the spring is already compressed. Mechanically is not much different from Saitek gimbals.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Sokol1

[gnomechompsky]

I believe I can now answer the question about Warthog vs Gladiator Pro having got them both in front of me and having used both enough to get a sense for them.

 

I bought a Gladiator Pro from another forum member who was kind enough to sell it on ebay.  Initially I was pretty disappointed with it - I was used to the Warthog which on the outside feels very authentic and well built.  By contrast the Gladiator feels more like a toy - its plastic and the buttons in particular are very clacky.  I am glad however I have stuck with it because now I would not go back to the Warthog.  

 

The smoothness of the Gladiator Pro is far superior and I no longer feel like I am fighting the controller rather than the game.  The warthog was way too heavy and quickly become uncomfortable for me.  And I don't miss the warthog throttle at all, the one on the Gladiator is actually very good (for a small grey wheel) and I am glad it isn't taking up massive amounts of space on my desk.

 

I think my perspective is probably very different from a lot of forum members whose rooms are look more like fighter plane cockpits.  I use my computer for plenty of other things and don't want the hardware consuming all the space (my trackIR and pedals are reasonably out the way).  I also don't want to have to use an extension on a warthog just so I can get the right level of stick tension and to mask the stickion and centering issues.  So if this is where you are coming from the Gladiator Pro probably isn't for you.  

 

Hope this helps some people decide, looks like I will be selling my Warthog soon.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

It's true that Warthog without extension is tiring. But i personally waitng for Gunfighter pro or virpil products users reviews.

[Matt]

 

 

It only happens on the roll axis though, the pitch axis with the W cam works fine and doesn't show this pendulum at all. So it seems to be more of a cam issue than anything else. I'll test the 30 cams on the roll axis to see if it helps.

 

Small update here, changing to the 30 cams makes no difference and with those 30 cams there's a very noticable bump around the center, which maybe works for jet sims, but it's not really good for a prop sim. I also tried to weaker springs, but all springs apart from the springs that come with the Warthog adapter are too weak for the and also don't make much of a difference in this regard.

 

But i'm now getting used to this oscillating behaviour and maybe i won't notice it anymore after using it often enough. But i think the Gunfighter with the addtional clutches will be a much better with the Warthog grip.