Warthog or Gladiator

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

My joystick (x45) after 15 years of solid service seems to have given up the ghost. So now have to decide to do Gladiator in bits and pieces or just buy a Warthog. I have CH Pro Pedals, I just don't like not having a proper throttle and Gladiator throttle doesn't seem to be soon in coming.  I also would love to have the Warthog's split throttle as a dedicated Zerstörer (and future HS-129) pilot.  I know this will lean towards Gladiator, why should I go that route, looks like to have G.Pro and Throttle linked will be $500 or so and I'll have to wait awhile.

[Dutchvdm]

Hi Harry,

 

I was asking myself the same question for the last 3 to 4 month and Monday i ordered the Gladiator Pro and the VKB T-Rudder pedals. I thought about the Warthog a lot, but after reading a lot of reviews i changed my mind. It could be just typical internet anger and rage, but i didn't get the impression the quality is all that. And for me is is really pricey and since i didn't have any pedals the total costs would be quiet huge. 

 

I didn't fly a lot the last two month because vacation, but as soon as i have my new toys i will tell you how it performs. 

 

Grt M

 

PS: I own a MSFFB2 now but it's getting wobble. So it needs to go.

[Matt]

I'm just upgrading from a Warthog to a Gladiator Pro. Will see how it will work.

 

The only thing I don't like on the Warthog is the gimbal, didn't have any other issues in the past five years with it.

[TWC_Ace]

They are no match. Glad pro uses metal mechanism (plastics in WARTHOG) and MARS sensors. Its much better option. 

Edited September 28, 2016 by blackram

[TP_Silk]

What a fantastic coincidence. I was just considering the exact same conundrum. Thanks chaps for the answers :D

[Lusekofte]

I would not recommend Warthog for this game, but I might do it for DCS jets. Not sure for the choppers though.

I hope one day Thrustmaster take their responsibility toward their customers and make a gimball mod  worth buying. Many like the Warthog, but I suspect it is the metal and buttons. Witch is very good to have in modern fighters. 

Personally I would choose the Gladiator pro for this game and maybe the throttle from Warthog

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

throttle from Warthog

I had Warthog throttle in my hands many times and it has plenty of buttons but thats it. Personally I picked up X 55 throttle which resembles Warthog throttle but instead of so many useless buttons has more rolls (which means more axis to assign) and so I have now everything from zoom, through mixture, rpm, radiators, cowl shutters up to flaps assigned to axis. And X 55 (or X 56 now) throttle is cheaper.  

[Matt]

I actually like all the switches on the Warthog throttle but the problem is that only few flightsims can make good use of them and BoS is not one of those (yet?). But with the help of Target, you can really setup some nice things with it and having a manual feedback on things like supercharger setting, boost, gear, tailwheel lock, diving brakes, manual/automatic prop pitch, etc. is nice to have. For instance, i use the flap switch for dive bombing, the first stage down open the window on the Stuka or bomb bay on the other planes and the next stage engages the dive brake. Then after dropping the bombs, it's just flipping the switch fully up with good feedback and you know that you're back in flight condition.

 

But of course the Warthog was planned for DCS A-10 and it's fantastic there. It wasn't planned for WW2 sims and now (6 years since the introduction of the Warthog), there are alternatives to it.

[dburne]

IMHO a Warthog with an extension is still pretty hard to beat.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Guess I am leaning towards Gladiator Pro. Would like a proper throttle, but willing to wait on that for a bit. For some reason my CH pro pedals have never had the brake axis working, too bad could really use that. I had the left/right brakes mapped to my rocker rudder on the X45, worked really well. 

 

I guess there are also always tanks to drive while I wait...

[Bearfoot]

I have the X-55.

 

I agree with Hiromachi: the X-55 throttle is much better than the WH in functionality. Only downside, now, 8 months later, the thumb rotaries are loose enough that they are not useable for anything critical. E.g., I had one mapped to zoom, but the slightest jiggle now sends them forward or backward, making the view jump and forth unpredictably and uncontrollably. So now, those two rotaries are unmapped. Also, the little mouse nipple was mushy.  But I think the X-56 may replace this with a hat switch?

 

The X-55 stick is not bad in terms of precision, probably equal to the stock WH, or maybe even better if you use the proper spring. 

 

Here is the thing though, and what led me to "upgrade" (if you can call it that) to the WH.

 

Extensions.

 

I got the WH + 20cm extension together, and have hardly used the stock WH so cannot say how it performs. But the WH + 20cm extension far, far, far, outclasses the X-55. Precision and feel and control. There's no going back. I have also moved to a center stick arrangement, and, with that, too, no going back.

 

So, the big plus of the WH is mods and extensions. For e.g., check this one out to replicate the "feel" of separated pitch and roll axes by ensuring constant tension on one regardless of where the other is:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2847072&postcount=1158

 

Given that a stick extension makes such a difference, and separated-axes metal gimbals is going to be really nice, then my answer to your question , "Warthog" vs "Gladiator" is: "Gunfighter"! 

Edited September 28, 2016 by Bearfoot

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Thanks for all the input guys. 

[Matt]

 

 

So, the big plus of the WH is mods and extensions. For e.g., check this one out to replicate the "feel" of separated pitch and roll axes by ensuring constant tension on one regardless of where the other is:   https://forums.eagle...&postcount=1158  

OK, that just increased the chances, that i'll be sending the Gladiator back when i get it. Completely missed that post. 

[J37_Spyboy]

@Silk

That's the combination I just got.Gladiator joystick & T Rudder Mk3, it changes flying for you, specially if like me you never had pedals before! They are really well made! I'm in Gateshead btw.

[Sokol1]

I also would love to have the Warthog's split throttle as a dedicated Zerstörer (and future HS-129) pilot. 

 

You can pick Gladiator PRO and Warthog Throttle (is sold standalone on Amazom).

 

From Reddit topic: http://i.imgur.com/iwJhozz.jpg

 

Is subjective, but don't mix "controllability" - what maybe Gladiator PRO "Next Gen" CAM gimbal can give better, with "functionality" - more HAT corners in Warthog, so you can map there flaps, radiators, landing gear controls... these controls that any WWII plane had in their grips. 

 

Anyway Cougar/Warthog grips can be attached to Gladiator PRO.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Sokol1

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

One minor sidenote, I did crack open my CH Pro Pedals and the wires coming from both toe brakes were just cut clean off, someone didn't do a good job of routing them. Put them back together and now I have working toe brakes. 

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

OK, I wound up going with the regular Gladiator and a CH Throttle quadrant which should scratch my multiengine itch (6 levers and 6 2-way buttons, enough switches that I won't have to do any programming on it).

 

I actually took off in my 110 today with an xbox controller. Not easy! I even strafed a target. Pretty horrible though.

[TP_Silk]

I've now ordered a Gladiator Pro. Will either continue using the Throttle component of my current TM T-Flight Hotas X (will be a bit of a faff due to it being linked to the stick component with a cable) or just make do with Gladiator Pro as is until I can sort out a different throttle. I already have pedals, so don't need to worry about them for now.

@Spyboy I'm originally from down country, but moved up to this area back in '91 when I left the forces. The beer was cheaper here and there was no ex-wife to nag me, so I stayed  

[MaxVonDayGlow]

Anyway Cougar/Warthog grips can be attached to Gladiator PRO.

 

I am eagerly waiting for the Cougar/Warthog adapter for my G-Pro, but my request for an update in availability from Stratojet and VKB has gone unanswered. 

[Beazil]

Why not pair your x45 throttle with the Gladiator Pro?  I know you'll have to plug the stick in as well, but you can always just keep it off to the side or under the desk.  Just a thought.

 

Edit:  I mean, use the x45 throttle until the glad pro throttle becomes available, and then you can decide if you want to make the upgrade.  Lots of people pair Saitek throttles with whatever joystick they prefer, and that includes some people with hogs, msffb sticks, etc.

Edited September 29, 2016 by II./JG53_Beazil

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Yes, I guess that would be possible, too bad there was never an easy option to use it alone without having to do major surgery on it.  My gaming desk is setup in a bit of a weird way and space is rather tight, so having the stick also plugged in would be difficult. The X45 overall has just been acting very flaky so just wanted to retire it entirely. I think it is a combination of old hardware and not having updated driver support on Win10. I haven't been able to use the programming/profiler on it except in a very limited way, so was time for it to go. The main stick X/Y axis started acting up which was the final straw. Anyway the CH Quad is on the way and the Gladiator should be here next week sometime. 

[Sokol1]

I am eagerly waiting for the Cougar/Warthog adapter for my G-Pro, but my request for an update in availability from Stratojet and VKB has gone unanswered. 

 

 

Adapter (Cougar/Warthog, Cobra M5), 20 cm extension, will come together with Gunfighter - what was postponed for Q1 2017.

Mmm, maybe come together a new grip option (just guessing).

[Sokol1]

I haven't been able to use the programming/profiler on it except in a very limited way, so was time for it to go. The main stick X/Y axis started acting up which was the final straw. Anyway the CH Quad is on the way and the Gladiator should be here next week sometime. 

 

Ate least in X-45 throttle the "old hardware" - potentiometers - is better that in news (X-5x's), but of course pot', due to be based on friction,  wear with use.

 

Is not difficult - but time consuming - and cheap update this throttle for USB with MMJoy2,  or DSD, BU0836A controllers (more expensive), result in a new "PnP" device using Windows HID drivers.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Sokol1

[MaxVonDayGlow]

Adapter (Cougar/Warthog, Cobra M5), 20 cm extension, will come together with Gunfighter - what was postponed for Q1 2017.

Mmm, maybe come together a new grip option (just guessing).

 

So not for the Gladiator as promised?

 

That is very disappointing. I guess I will be selling a Glad-Pro in the near future.

[Sokol1]

The adapter/extension is for Gladiator PRO and Gunfighter - just will be not available before Gunfighter release, seems in Q1 next year (VKB FSC info). Patience...

Edited September 30, 2016 by Sokol1

[MaxVonDayGlow]

I am a flight sim enthusiast.....Patience is not part of my DNA.

 

Thanks for the info! It is much appreciated.

[Matt]

Ok, i got my Gladiator Pro now. 

 

Short review:

 

The negative points first (and nit-picking):

Quality control failed on my stick. The plate where the buttons on the base are located, was not attached correctly and the stick was basically not usable in that condition. So first task was to open the stick up and fix that myself (small issue, but i paid 300+ EUR on this stick). 

 

The trigger is not spring loaded like on the original stick. I wasn't sure if it was or not. In any case, the metal trigger is pretty lose and free floating, so you could move it forward with your finger easily. I replaced it with the plastic trigger (also included in the package), which has a magnet on it, which attaches to the button that gets actuated by the trigger. It then stays fixed. Feels more solid and i actually prefer the feel and look of the plastic trigger to the smooth and shiny metal trigger.

 

Some buttons are pretty loud, like the trigger and the eject button. Personal preference and you'll probably not notice it while flying, especially not if you wear headphones. But the eject button really feels a bit cheap in addition to that and i would prefer quiter buttons in general. But of course especially the eject button is probably the least used button on the stick, so i don't really mind it.

 

The trigger has a pretty long "trigger reset". What i mean, is that when you push the trigger, you'll have to let it go for about 2 mm back to the forward position for it to stop firing. So the reset distance is longer than the actual activation distance. So quick single shots are a bit harder to do than they are on most other sticks. Needs some time getting used to it.

 

The base is narrow and when i give full aileron to each side, it will tilt (even before i reach full aileron input). However, i had the same problem with the Warthog and i think nobody else did, so it's probably just my grip or technique. In any case, i'll hard mount it anyway, so it's not an issue for me. When i give full elevator, it won't tilt.

 

Also the screws (at least those that you need to unscrew to change the spring and cams) grip into plastic. So opening it up and closing it too often is not something i would recommend.

 

 

Positives:

Bascially everything else is great. The stick feels very solid. It's also very comfortable to use and i can reach each button on the stick just fine and i like how the pinky button is used as a shift button by default (especically because you can overcome the limitations of the single hat switch pretty well that way). The way to attach the stick to the base is ingenious and you can rotate to a position you like. A screw is basically squeezing two metal pieces togehter, which clamps itself to the axis of the base. It's a very smart and solid solution, which should last basically forever.

 

The gimbal is fantastic. With the default spring and cam, the center is pretty lose, but not too lose, which helps alot when aiming. But the force gets stronger at higher inputs. Pretty much how a stick should be imho. Also the gimbal and the rest of the stick feel sturdy enough for me, that i don't think using the Warthog or Cougar grip would be a problem.

 

You're getting three additional spring sets (i think one weaker and two stronger than the default) and one cam alternative for each axis, so you're free to experiment and adjust it to your liking. I'm pretty happy with the default spring and cams. It looks like the extra cams have a very strong center detend (which i don't like and won't use) and the spring force feels just right with the default spring. Though i might increase the strenght eventually.

 

So overall, i would highly recommend it, if you're willing to spend that much money on a stick.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Matt

[dburne]

VKB posted on another forum recently they no longer plan to offer the Warthog adapter for the Gladiator Pro, only the upcoming Gunfighter.

[Matt]

I just saw that. Pretty funny, considering people are asking for months for an ETA of the adapter on the VKB forums and unless I'm completely mistaken, it was clearly advertised to be compatible with the Warthog grip by using the upcoming adapter.

 

Well, I hope there'll be an official response from VKB on that matter soon, but regardless, my Warthog is pretty worn out to be an alternative to the Gladiator. So I guess I'll keep it anyway and might replace the Gladiator with the Gunfighter in the future.

[TP_Silk]

I've also received my Gladiator Pro now. Spent a little time last night trying to find a button/function layout that suited me and that I could easily remember, so tonight will hopefully be a bit more about flying 

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

I'm extremely happy so far with the regular Gladiator. 

[=Xone_96=Allen_and_Heath]

If you like bricks - go for a Warthoug

If you like to control the plane and have pleasure from gaming - go for Gladiator. Even non pro version outperform in software/programming / precise and functuality Warthoug.

 

[dburne]

Looks like there was an error in that earlier VKB statement regarding the Warthog Grip with the Gladiator Pro - they are going to be offering it, however they will not offer an extension for it as they will for the Gunfighter. It ( the adapter) is in final stages of development.

 

They will not offer the extension for the Gladiator Pro as they feel the base may not be up to the task as the Gunfighter will.

Edited October 12, 2016 by dburne

[TP_Silk]

I'm not convinced that the Gladiator Pro would work well with an extension as it has all those buttons and controls on the base. Of course if you want to ignore them totally, then an extension would work fine, if you want to use them, however, then it wouldn't be so easy to reach.

[Matt]

Good news that the adapter is coming. I also think the extension makes little sense and then I would also be worried that the construction might not be sturdy enough for the extra leverage.

[Higaluto]

Where did you order the gladiator from, im a warthog user but that joystick hurts my hand so much that i dont know if i can use it anymore, i have tried everything even ordered an extenstion but i think my problem is that the grip is not ergonomic at all. I will try one last thing, build up the hand-rest so my hand is not so low to reach all the buttons.

Anyone else have this problem with the warthog?

[TP_Silk]

I ordered my Gladiator Pro directly from VKB FSC Europe. Friendly service. If you are from the other side of the Atlantic, I believe that your official outlet is Stratojet or Amazon.

[Sokol1]

Where did you order the gladiator from, im a warthog user but that joystick hurts my hand so much that i dont know if i can use it anymore, i have tried everything even ordered an extenstion but i think my problem is that the grip is not ergonomic at all. I will try one last thing, build up the hand-rest so my hand is not so low to reach all the buttons.

Anyone else have this problem with the warthog?

 

This is normal with this grip, designed to be used with heavy gloves, and to be used placed at waist level, on side or in front pilot.

 

A virtual pilot with small had, no gloves, stick over desktop will have difficult to handle buttons/HAT's.

 

In CH joystick - what is based on same design, although not "replica" like Warthog, is common this palm rest "mod":

 

https://s10.postimg.org/lp7fkapnt/CH_hands_up.jpg

 

I did this for Fighterstick, with Epoxy putty - latter painted:

 

https://s4.postimg.org/p5roh4oil/Ch_Hands_up2.jpg

 

Similar

 

Radical option - no suitable for Warthog:

 

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/tomisama/eaf734a7-85a0-4c35-a4ab-c52c881297f9_zps4b5971f2.jpg

 

I think that a computer joystick should not be "replica" of some badass fighter, but based on their design with practical concessions

for virtual pilot use, for example, all joystick should have adjustable palm rest, like in some Russian grips, or F-35 grip:

 

http://www.essexindustries.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/grip_JSF_0003.jpg

 

But unless VKB provide this in future don't expect for major brands, Saitek use in some models (Cyborg, X-52), but drop for lower manufacturing cost.

[Dutchvdm]

Hi Guys,

 

This morning i installed new cams and springs (Just like on the video on youtube), and the stick feels really sturdy now. But every time i go left the springs make small metal noise. Are those the springs or the new cams?

 

Grt M

[Sokol1]

Heavy extension springs tends make noise, eg. VKB T-Rudder.

 

Try lubricate then, or insert a piece of foam cushion inside, this muffler the sound.

 

Other thing that can help: http://i83.fastpic.ru/big/2016/0830/5f/4543048dff6c64dcbc59a58cf735445f.jpg