How to bring new players in and teach them.

[hames123]

I know this sim needs new players but a player in the Coconut server spawned and crashed his stuka 7-8 times. The number ready went from 10 to 2. Then, he ragequited. So, how will this sim teach new pilots and prevent this kind of ragequitting and repeated plane wrecking?

Edited September 26, 2016 by hames123

[Kondor44]

That's what single player options are there for, I believe.

The sim itself cannot be held responsible for keeping players offline until they can handle given type of a/c properly. A sensible person would stick to Quick Mission option until taking off and landing (at least) are performed with satisfactory rate of success, I guess.

[hames123]

Yes, but how to ensure that they do this?

[J2_Trupobaw]

A good tutorial, (or community tutorial for noobs failing that) and good choice of first plane.

 

Double-control training biplane from devs, and willing instructors?

In my opinion people new to flight sims and willing to learn by themselves should be pointed to RoF and told to practice on free Albatros there first - it's as forgiving trainer as you can ask for in any realistic sim. But, that's long way few will take.

[Livai]

I know this sim needs new players but a player in the Coconut server spawned and crashed his stuka 7-8 times. The number ready went from 10 to 2. Then, he ragequited. So, how will this sim teach new pilots and prevent this kind of ragequitting and repeated plane wrecking?

 

Don't worry I have seen this same style but after he wrecked a lot planes he switched to the other team to fly without a single problem. Some kind of tactic to help his team to win this sortie!    

[Jade_Monkey]

I wouldnt mind helping out creating a community made tutorial.

 

I think there are good videos on YT (requiem?) but maybe a similar in-game tutorial would be helpful for those who learn better with a hands-on approach.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

What about adding 2 new teamspeak channels   called say...     noob teacher channel , or need flying assistance.  something like that then anyone can jump in and help?

[216th_Jordan]

What about adding 2 new teamspeak channels called say... noob teacher channel , or need flying assistance. something like that then anyone can jump in and help?

With so little ts users and ts being an external program I don't think thats very useful. What Jade Monkey says is what I find very good.

[Extreme_One]

What about adding 2 new teamspeak channels   called say...     noob teacher channel , or need flying assistance.  something like that then anyone can jump in and help?

New users probably won't have Teamspeak installed, or even know what it is.

Nowadays they're more likely to be running Mumble or Discord.

[Gunsmith86]

The basic problem is the way we all are used to play this Simulations. If you have some expirience with flightsims than its fun to play with full engine managment and all sorts of dificulties but if you just beginn or have only limeted time to play than its no fun for you and its the one most important thing that a game must be fun to play frome the beginning. If its not than you stop playing it. ( for what i no write people will proberbly rip me into pieces ) one thing nearly all games with large numbers of players have is that they are very easy to play from the beginning, it simply doesnt matter how bad someone is he can still play and have fun doing it. When you start IL2 or some other flightsim that is as good as IL2 than the first thing you have to do to be able to fly a little bit is to assign a very bewildering variety of keys and buttons. Because you are new and have only very little knowledge about flying and flythsims you dont know which keys are Important for you at the beginning. Here is the first part were the game lets you down there is no help for you no link that gets you to a manual which could help you. Some will say: wait there is a manual for IL2 and its even a good one! Yes you are right there is a manual but for some reason they decided not to include it into the download of the game nor is there any link in the game which would get you right to the manual. Than there are many keys which are not realy necessary for example: why is it necessary to have tow keys for adjustable stabilizer, tow for pitch trim and as if thats not yet enough we have tow more for Fw 190 adjustable stabilizer.
Well you can say now that these keys are all necessary because trim works different in diffrent planes and you are right but wouldnt it also work with just two keys for pitch trim and adjustable stabilizer? yes it does work because most people map them on the same keys anyway. Because a plane has eighter adjustable stabilster or pitch trim we would only need the diffrent keys if we get a plane that has both. If we look through all the keys we can surely find many more such cases were not realy more than one is needed. So key mapping is realy no fun for beginners and other Players. Ok after all that you now want to start into your first mission online and look for a server there you get tow choices eighter one with ikons on and helpers aktivated were most people fly only fighters and are very good at it which ends for you quiet bad because you will be shot down just minutes after you start so no fun for you here until you have some experience. So you try the other server which has real missions to win the game but it has no help for you and use the full flightmodell of the game which is to mutch for you as beginner. When you start you will sometimes crash your plane before even getting into the air. you would most likely love these mission as mutch as the expert player with over 1000 hours of flyingtime but most people will not try long enough and leave the game and not try again. What would help people to get used to higher difficult levels would be a system were everybody could set a difficult level for him selve and not one were he is forced to use the one the server sets for him. The help that a player gets must be so that it makes it more easy to fly and start but not to such a extend that he cant push the plane to much and crash his plane. After he has some flyingtime on a plane the game should advice the player to level up one step by useing now one more controle option like oil radiator and explain him what it does and how he has to handle it. Now some may say that players useing full real settings are at a disadvantage but i dont think so because they have mostly so much flyingtime that a player who is new or flys only for short times is only able to fight with them when he gets some help. In the end both will have fun and get out more from the Game.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Gunsmith86

[JG13_opcode]

There needs to be some kind of "new player flight nights" where people just get on an airquake server and practice take offs, landings, and shooting each other down on teamspeak.

 

Minimal flak, short distances to some central target, icons on, full-real engine settings, good to go.

 

When I was learning back in the original Forgotten Battles I had no clue about any of the aircraft so I just picked the one on the box, the IL-2, and decided to go dogfight some Spitfires on a random all-planes server.

 

Needless to say that didn't work out and I got super frustrated.  I'd have loved it if there was some kind of newbie night back then.

Edited September 26, 2016 by JG13_opcode

[TWC_Ace]

Yes, how to bring new players into this sim. A generations who never was really interested in aviation, never red book about it...a generation which wipes a game faster than it was installed, a generation used to play games on smartphones, tablets, consoles....

[JG13_opcode]

Yes, how to bring new players into this sim. A generations who never was really interested in aviation, never red book about it...a generation which wipes a game faster than it was installed, a generation used to play games on smartphones, tablets, consoles....

[hames123]

Well, I am only a kid I love aircraft, andquite a few others in my class share this interest.

So it has nothing to do with age.

[[TWB]Pand]

I think MrX has a PAY service where his videos teach you how to become an Ace.

[Lusekofte]

I meet up with people on DED  72 ag expert server who do not know how to start a engine. This is probably people from WT or similar thinking this will be easy peasy.

And it is , with some basic training.

But these people start asking questions , and that in the middle of a action , they obviously think we are rude not answering. Yes we need more people , but we are not a kindergarten either. We probably should have had a Beginners section in this site, devoted for people needing to learn in a hurry. And a TS channel for training. 

It is in fact a good place to recruit payers into a squad.

[TWC_Ace]

Bah, I was talking in general. Obviously there are few youngsters interested in aviation and hardcore sims with longer learning curve. But what with others?

Edited September 28, 2016 by blackram

[Eclipse4349]

Sounds like a some server moderation was needed!

 

To try to help multi-player grow, I have been trying talking to some gaming buddies about giving it a try with all automation help turned on, using a cheap starter joystick.

 

I have found the community to be very helpful. There is a lot of good information out there for someone motivated to learn. In what now seems like no time, taxiing, takeoff, and landing are reliable, and I am flying with no automation without damaging anything But, I have been doing my homework. If someone doesn't have a desire to devote the time and energy to studying up, then a serious flight sim probably isn't a good fit.

[ACG_pezman]

We need free tanks and infantry to bring in the masses. Once they get "air supported" a few times they'll want to be the ones dropping the bombs. Enter money and players

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The best way I've seen is to give chat support whenever you see someone messing up, and offer to join up on TeamSpeak to help.

 

I don't think staying offline is mandatory, if people want to go online and explore, let them. I learned a lot more venturing online, even if my first sortie ended with me not retracting flaps after take off, scoring one victory somehow and them wrecking the plane on landing big time.

And to those who say younger people don't fly, I still recall the high school mate of mine who nicked my very first Il-2 Sturmovik copy so he could play it back when that was the game of the hour. Thankfully digital copies have come into the picture over the years to prevent such incidents

[JG13_opcode]

I learned online.  If the advice to me had been "learn offline" I'd never have kept with it because I find offline is supremely dull.

 

Sometimes you just gotta get your butt shot off a few times.

[PatrickAWlson]

It's tough.  I almost never actually fly BoS because I simply have never had time to learn.  Getting online, failing miserably and rage quitting is stupid, but I certainly get it when a more casual player gets a little daunted by the prospect of monitoring temperature, oil pressure, manifold, etc.  

 

Per the OP - IMHO that guy was never a candidate.  He thought he was going to jump into a world of tanks type game and was shocked - shocked I say! - when he couldn't be another Rudel with zero practice.  

 

Anyhow, it was already said, but encouraging people to learn offline is one thing.  Setting up a beginners server is another.  The third is recognizing that at a hard core level this game will never have the mass appeal of an easier game.

 

Here's a random thought: create an alternative table driven easy FM.  There is already talk of something to reduce AI cycles.  Let casual players fly it too.  

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Well, the first thing I did with this game after setting up the very basic controls was to try taking off and landing in the LaGG-3. I think it took me about 5 tries before I was able to takeoff and about 30 before I could land without bouncing and breaking it. I can't conceive of trying that sort of very basic flight practice online. 

[Extreme_One]

...

 

Here's a random thought: create an alternative table driven easy FM.  There is already talk of something to reduce AI cycles.  Let casual players fly it too.  

 

Actually, that's not a bad idea! Create two big buttons on the Login Page -> |ARCADE| & |SIMULATION|

 

Let the casual players enjoy a more Arcade experience with simplified FMs and whatever other scoring mechanisms and power-ups float their boat and leave the Simulation mode for the rest.

 

Although you'd need more manpower to build, in effect, two games, as you're using the same assets it wouldn't be as bad as building two separate games.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Isn't there a simpler flight model already available if you pick the easy options, with no CEM, stalls and the likes?

[Extreme_One]

Isn't there a simpler flight model already available if you pick the easy options, with no CEM, stalls and the likes?

 

That's probably true, if you know where these things are found in the menus. Newcomers (and oldtimers alike) are often put off and/ or confused by complicated menus. 

[Sokol1]

 

 

Than there are many keys which are not realy necessary for example: why is it necessary to have tow keys for adjustable stabilizer, tow for pitch trim and as if thats not yet enough we have tow more for Fw 190 adjustable stabilizer.

 

Perhaps for technical reasons in game engine they need individual names for these commands.

 

But nothing prevent that they come mapped all in same two keys (what I do), so the lazy "new guy" need bother only with 2 keys.

Same for radiator/cowl/shudders. In the all all do the same thing.

 

But there's no way to make the game to be controlled only with half dozen of keys like some want.

[Gunsmith86]

Perhaps for technical reasons in game engine they need individual names for these commands.

 

But nothing prevent that they come mapped all in same two keys (what I do), so the lazy "new guy" need bother only with 2 keys.

Same for radiator/cowl/shudders. In the all all do the same thing.

 

But there's no way to make the game to be controlled only with half dozen of keys like some want.

You didn´t realy get my point. You are a experienced player and know what the single commands do and because of that you also know that you can map than all on tow keys but who explains that to the newcomer? 

That is what i wanted to say.

 

What if there would be a sytem in the game that would help him at the beginning by telling him what he needs to start?

How could that look?

In my opinion the first thing one should see after you look into the game for the first time is a big windo right in the middle of you screen were the game ask you if you want to use a Joystick or Mousecontroll next it should led you right to the key mapping were only realy nessesary keys will be set ( trottle, guns, head movement, nothing more for the start ). If he move the mouse over the field to set his key there should pop up a small windo which explains what this feature does and why t is important to use it.

After he has done that he gets two options: 1) start singleplayer mission  2) start online mission

The game starts now eigther a mission on a online server or in singleplayer. The player is allowed to use the simple flight modell, he always starts in the air and all helpers are on no matter on which server he plays.

After he has played say 5 hours with this settings the windo opens again and tells him that he now has learnd enough to level up it again leads him to the key mapping were he gets to setup keys for taxing and engine start again he gets verything explained by moveing the mouse over the field for the keys.

From now on he has still the simple flight modell but he is no longer allowed to start in the air he has to learn to taxi to the runway and start his plane.

After another 10 hours the windo oppens again and he get the first few keys for engine managment ( watter and oil for example ) from than on he must use it he is no longer allowed to fly online without it.

This continues so long until he is on full engine managment with full flight modell and everything else.

 

For expert players there should be a button to skip the hole program.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Gunsmith86

[Gunsmith86]

Actually, that's not a bad idea! Create two big buttons on the Login Page -> |ARCADE| & |SIMULATION|

 

Let the casual players enjoy a more Arcade experience with simplified FMs and whatever other scoring mechanisms and power-ups float their boat and leave the Simulation mode for the rest.

 

Although you'd need more manpower to build, in effect, two games, as you're using the same assets it wouldn't be as bad as building two separate games.

Thats a realy bad thing you dont want to split your comunity into tow parts and Warthunder tryed this whit the final conclusion that the simulation part is not realy profitable and can be sacrificed for the Arcade part. Better is the approach to educate your players so that you end up with a large playerbase that is able to fly whit full difficulties.

[Uriah]

I see a lot of people posting questions in the in game chat and often they are nobs.  The chats often roll of quickly so even if you wanted to help you can't.

I recall tin 1946 that you could have keys set up that when hit would type out a pre 'recorded' message.  One of the ones I had was the team speak channel.  I was able to get a number of people on to a particular channel and help them out.  Or even direct them to the squad channel.   I think having the same thing in BoX would be an advantage.  Even better would be an internal VOIP just for that kind of thing where we could quick switch from out TS channel to a internal voip.  Or maybe even a voice to text thing.  I understand that might be to costly on the server. 

[Sokol1]

This kind of interactive fly suggest maybe can be done with missions with ME cinematic function (seem in that ex-Unlock Campaign) - a kind of static mini "Training Campaign". 

 

What was seems intended in CloD - and, as always - result "disastrous".

 

If I remember well, CFS-something has interactive flight, where you can watch maneuvers and the can assume the  plane command and repeat.

 

But nothing of this will help with this "new guys" that want only join in MP and press two keys: fly and fire, as if the game was a kind CS/COD/BF.

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

Key mapping and/or control curve adjusting is the bane of my existence. I suffer through it in order to play but it takes a long time and I never have enough time to get it just right. While I've done it for RoF, BoS and BoM, I still haven't been able to sort out CloD, WoV and Star Citizen.

 

I have fond memories of the detailed manuals we used to get in boxed games. You could have the thing on your lap while you learned the game and the key cards were treat too. That was then however, and this is now...

 

I though the difficulty selection screen in the old IL2 struck the right balance between game complexity and ease of use. My suggestion would be to send the player to the plane setup screen before each mission automatically. On this screen the player should have the option to toggle things like simplified engine management, 'relaxed' controls (i.e. automatic trim, reduced torque and gyro effects, and the like). 

 

Finally, new/casual players should be able to use these settings on 'full real' servers. Ok, technically, these servers won't be 'full real' anymore per se, but the impact might not be all that negative. Less experienced players would get airborne more quickly, and since you don't usually achieve max performance out of the aircraft unless you use complex engine management, non-purists won't have an undue advantage if, for example you could still overheat the engine.

 

In the alternative, having more server options might be a more effective answer. A 'normal' settings server without icons could be a good way for new players to ease into the game without making it too easy.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

[Cpt_Cool]

You didn´t realy get my point. You are a experienced player and know what the single commands do and because of that you also know that you can map than all on tow keys but who explains that to the newcomer? 

That is what i wanted to say.

 

What if there would be a sytem in the game that would help him at the beginning by telling him what he needs to start?

How could that look?

In my opinion the first thing one should see after you look into the game for the first time is a big windo right in the middle of you screen were the game ask you if you want to use a Joystick or Mousecontroll next it should led you right to the key mapping were only realy nessesary keys will be set ( trottle, guns, head movement, nothing more for the start ). If he move the mouse over the field to set his key there should pop up a small windo which explains what this feature does and why t is important to use it.

After he has done that he gets two options: 1) start singleplayer mission  2) start online mission

The game starts now eigther a mission on a online server or in singleplayer. The player is allowed to use the simple flight modell, he always starts in the air and all helpers are on no matter on which server he plays.

After he has played say 5 hours with this settings the windo opens again and tells him that he now has learnd enough to level up it again leads him to the key mapping were he gets to setup keys for taxing and engine start again he gets verything explained by moveing the mouse over the field for the keys.

From now on he has still the simple flight modell but he is no longer allowed to start in the air he has to learn to taxi to the runway and start his plane.

After another 10 hours the windo oppens again and he get the first few keys for engine managment ( watter and oil for example ) from than on he must use it he is no longer allowed to fly online without it.

This continues so long until he is on full engine managment with full flight modell and everything else.

 

For expert players there should be a button to skip the hole program.

 

In Soviet Russia, game plays you.  I like all of these suggestions, but as an optional/replayable tutorial.  I wouldn't want the online missions, servers, or difficulty chosen for me based on my logged playtime.

[Urra]

It's tough. I almost never actually fly BoS because I simply have never had time to learn. Getting online, failing miserably and rage quitting is stupid, but I certainly get it when a more casual player gets a little daunted by the prospect of monitoring temperature, oil pressure, manifold, etc.

 

Per the OP - IMHO that guy was never a candidate. He thought he was going to jump into a world of tanks type game and was shocked - shocked I say! - when he couldn't be another Rudel with zero practice.

 

Anyhow, it was already said, but encouraging people to learn offline is one thing. Setting up a beginners server is another. The third is recognizing that at a hard core level this game will never have the mass appeal of an easier game.

 

Here's a random thought: create an alternative table driven easy FM. There is already talk of something to reduce AI cycles. Let casual players fly it too.

Doesn't the dserver already have an option for arcade flight dynamics? It's just a check box. Just running a server with these settings might help those that want two button and mouse control. Edited September 30, 2016 by Smok

[Sokol1]

Finally, new/casual players should be able to use these settings on 'full real' servers. 

 

New/casual players have nothing to do in "full real", "Expert"... servers. The only thing they will learn there is be a easy target.

 

And for "casual" approach, hit "fly" and "fire" keys "Normal" servers is perfect. All in easiness in hand, in 5 minutes of fly.

[ACG_daffy_]

It's a real question, and it's been around for a little while.  

 

A lot of players are not bad people, and could probably help quite a bit!  I think that a lot of new players are intimidated by the low number of pilots online....considering them to be more advanced and 'out of their league', and there isn't really any alternative online to full real.  I mean, there is...but really, none of the Training Servers are every really populated.

 

I've witnessed guys giving all kinds of help to new players on MP though.  I've never seen someone ask a question, and be told to go 'fly a kite'.  

 

I think, that all aside from all of our battles and disagreements here on the forums, everyone in the air are pretty good people that want this sim to excell.  I just wish there was a way to relay that to the new guy just jumping on and trying it all out.

 

I've seen some rude responses to new guy questions, but they're usually followed by about 5-10 friendly ones, and a few 'stop being a d(&k' comments to the rude guy LOL.

 

Salute

 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Probably my favourite online chat incident was on Wings of Liberty. Some curious chap showed up and asked what was the maximum sea level speed of the La-5. I plus a few others replied, some answers (like mine) being rough estimates while others were more accurate and included instructions on how to reach it properly. A minute goes by and another chap shows up and says 'if the La-5 is that speed then it is OP. bias'

[Guest deleted@30725]

I know this sim needs new players but a player in the Coconut server spawned and crashed his stuka 7-8 times. The number ready went from 10 to 2. Then, he ragequited. So, how will this sim teach new pilots and prevent this kind of ragequitting and repeated plane wrecking?

 

That was probably me.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Isn't there a simpler flight model already available if you pick the easy options, with no CEM, stalls and the likes?

Normal does not affect the FM's at all. Only removes CEM as far as I know. Even the AI has the same FM and is why they fail horribly at flying the more "sensitive" AC.