What if we talk about the Lagg3 for a change ?

[Turban]

So , I've only been flying the Mig 3 for the past year or so.

So it kind of came as a surprise to discover how good the Lagg 3 is. I didn't remember it like that.

 

So, I'm kind of curious now. I did hear rumors about how good the roll was, stuff like that.. Didn't care.

 

While the roll might be interesting, it's not my focus, what strikes me the most is the speed, gain and loss.

 

I'm in the process of looking for references. 

So far I found an interesting bit :

 

107. Ввод в пикирование производить с разворота или переворота при работе мотора на средних оборотах. 

Не допускать обратных перегрузок при вводе в пикирование во избежание отлива масла и бензина в системах. 

Ввод в пикирование с горки запрещается. 

Перед вводом в пикирование убедиться, что шасси поднято — горят красные лампочки, и механические указатели полностью вошли в крыло. Затяжелить винт до 2200—2300 об/мин. 

Не допускать при пикировании скорости более 600 км/час по прибору и раскрутки винта свыше 2800 об/мин. На самолетах, не имеющих балансиров на руле направления, скорость пикирования не должна превышать 550 км/час во избежание появления флаттера. 

При раскрутке винта до 2800 об/мин необходимо выводить самолёт из пикирования. 

Пикирует самолёт устойчиво. При стремлении самолёта увеличить угол или выйти из пикирования сбалансировать самолёт триммером руля высоты. 

Выводить самолёт из пикирования плавно. 

При пикировании под углом 60° и достижении скорости 600 км1час по прибору самолёт при выводе теряет 1400 м высоты.

 

I anyone could confirm this : starting with an "average speed" (engine at 2300 rpm), if you go on a glide at 60°, you should reach 600 km/h after a loss of 1400m (alt).

Is that correct ? Not sure how to do precisely 60° ingame, but that's a test that could give a rought idea of how close the Lagg3 is from the truth..

 

So if anyone that speaks russian could confirm it that'd be good..

Thanks

 

 

[JG13_opcode]

How do you suppose they measured the dive angle quoted?

[Turban]

They probably eye-balled it.

[Brano]

It means that if you dive under 60° angle and reach 600kmh IAS,you will need 1400m reserve of height to pull out the LaGG from dive.

[Turban]

It means that if you dive under 60° angle and reach 600kmh IAS,you will need 1400m reserve of height to pull out the LaGG from dive.

 

Wow ok good thing I asked then, as I (google) got it wrong , thanks !

Edited September 19, 2016 by Turban

[JG13_opcode]

They probably eye-balled it.

 

Indeed.  So it's mostly another useless pilot anecdote.  No guarantees that they actually did dive at 60 degrees, and therefore of dubious value when trying to compare sim performance to historical reality.

Edited September 19, 2016 by JG13_opcode

[Turban]

Actually I'm not sure I get it. Reason is, it takes a whole lot less ingame.

 

I assume if they don't mention trim it means trim should be the same trim as level flight? 

 

Can anyone else try it ingame. It's late here maybe I'm not thinking straight.

[Brano]

If in dive and aircraft tries to either increase angle of diving,or tries to come out of the dive,use elevator trimmer...(to stay in steady dive under constant angle)

Edit:

Btw your quoted text (a bit distorted) is from pilot manual for early LaGGs with M-105P engine. It mentions first series with straight rudder (550km/h max dive speed IAS due to flutter) and upgraded straight rudder with balancers (600km/h max dive speed IAS) . Our model is series 29 with rudder shaped in upper part similar to Bf-109 to eliminate flutter. Devs have NII VVS test trials for this aircraft and Han explained this long time ago in discussion about max dive speeds of different aircrafts. So your testing is kind of useless with the source you try to use. But carry on,I don't want to discourage you.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Brano

[Turban]

True, so I trimmed it for the dive (level flight trim is already pretty much full nose down), and it still get back to level flight in a lot less than 1400m. More like 400m max.

I guess 1400m is more some sort of recommandation rather than an indication of the aircraft's capabilites..

Edited September 20, 2016 by Turban

[Wulf]

 

So , I've only been flying the Mig 3 for the past year or so.

 

So it kind of came as a surprise to discover how good the Lagg 3 is. I didn't remember it like that.

 

So, I'm kind of curious now. I did hear rumors about how good the roll was, stuff like that.. Didn't care.

 

While the roll might be interesting, it's not my focus, what strikes me the most is the speed, gain and loss.

 

I'm in the process of looking for references. 

 

So far I found an interesting bit :

 

107. Ввод в пикирование производить с разворота или переворота при работе мотора на средних оборотах. 

Не допускать обратных перегрузок при вводе в пикирование во избежание отлива масла и бензина в системах. 

Ввод в пикирование с горки запрещается. 

Перед вводом в пикирование убедиться, что шасси поднято — горят красные лампочки, и механические указатели полностью вошли в крыло. Затяжелить винт до 2200—2300 об/мин. 

Не допускать при пикировании скорости более 600 км/час по прибору и раскрутки винта свыше 2800 об/мин. На самолетах, не имеющих балансиров на руле направления, скорость пикирования не должна превышать 550 км/час во избежание появления флаттера. 

При раскрутке винта до 2800 об/мин необходимо выводить самолёт из пикирования. 

Пикирует самолёт устойчиво. При стремлении самолёта увеличить угол или выйти из пикирования сбалансировать самолёт триммером руля высоты. 

Выводить самолёт из пикирования плавно. 

При пикировании под углом 60° и достижении скорости 600 км1час по прибору самолёт при выводе теряет 1400 м высоты.

 

I anyone could confirm this : starting with an "average speed" (engine at 2300 rpm), if you go on a glide at 60°, you should reach 600 km/h after a loss of 1400m (alt).

 

Is that correct ? Not sure how to do precisely 60° ingame, but that's a test that could give a rought idea of how close the Lagg3 is from the truth..

 

So if anyone that speaks russian could confirm it that'd be good..

 

Thanks

 

 

Yes it's interesting what you say about the roll.  The in-game LaGG-3 does roll very well, in fact pretty much on a par with the 190 which is to say better than the Bf 109 (as it should). 

 

Now that strikes me as a little odd given that I can find no contemporary references to the ability of a LaGG pilot to simply roll away from a 109, in much the way that a FW 190 pilot could 'supposedly' roll out of the way of a Spitfire.

 

Does anyone have a useful reference on the matter, that might explain the apparent anomaly?? 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Wulf

[LeLv8_Otto]

Here is the old thread about LAGG s35 tested by Finns, containing the test documents etc.:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/3883-lagg-3-series-35/page-1?hl=+lagg

Edited October 17, 2016 by LeLv8_Otto

[Solty]

Yes it's interesting what you say about the roll.  The in-game LaGG-3 does roll very well, in fact pretty much on a par with the 190 which is to say better than the Bf 109 (as it should). 

 

Now that strikes me as a little odd given that I can find no contemporary references to the ability of a LaGG pilot to simply roll away from a 109, in much the way that a FW 190 pilot could 'supposedly' roll out of the way of a Spitfire.

 

Does anyone have a useful reference on the matter, that might explain the apparent anomaly?? 

 

Thats a NACA report on roll rate at 3000m. So, there you go. Fw190 is at the top of the chart. I do not know roll rate of the LaGG-3 IRL, but you can check yourself if the Fw190 is matching the figures.

Edited October 20, 2016 by =LD=Solty

[Irgendjemand]

Thats a NACA report on roll rate at 3000m. So, there you go. Fw190 is at the top of the chart. I do not know roll rate of the LaGG-3 IRL, but you can check yourself if the Fw190 is matching the figures.

IMHO: looking at these and other charts its obvious there is something fishy with the relative rollperformance of the FW 190 in BOX. Hopefully this will get adressed one day.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Turban]

I have not enough knowledge so I'm asking opinions here.

How would a fight have gone at low altitude between a La5 and the Lagg3 serie we have in game ? 

[Turban]

Here is the old thread about LAGG s35 tested by Finns, containing the test documents etc.:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/3883-lagg-3-series-35/page-1?hl=+lagg

 

 

I had a look it's pretty interesting. I don't have much time so I just did a quick try and did a split S as in post http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/3883-lagg-3-series-35/?p=85680

 

It says 

 

 

• Split-S. In a split-s the plane loses only a little altitude and gain of speed is small. With starting speed of 300km/h the loss of altitude is 650-700m and speed in the end 400km/h.

 

Ingame you can consistenly do it with 600m maybe less altitude loss, and the end speed is around 440 IAS autumn map (* with idle power setting! - with power you actually reach 500+)

 

 

 

It doesn't sound like much at first but I think it actually tells something. Needs more testing.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Turban