Excited about the Bf109 G4 but....

[Lusekofte]

Personally I do not mind if the G6 come in Kuban campaign. But then we need a equal Russian plane to balance the game. Because there is a equal importance in CFS games to historical FM named balance. If that is not in the game, no-one fly against you

[Trinkof]

Someone asked : kuban air battle started mid april ended mid june.

 

Fight started in january ended october, but the "real" air battle is only in spring.

 

For instance it was the hugest air battle in ww2 (during the april june time frame), with more than 1500 sorties per side someday (BOB is 900 sorties on the hardest day... )

 

I think the end of the air battle is marked the 9th june.

 

Saying Kuban air battle lasted until october would be the same as saying BOB ended in 1941

 

For instance, fight in stalingrad area lasted until march, and first yak9 were deployed there. Should we have a yak9 in stalingrad scenario ? No because ot would not be representative at all of the actual battle and number of planes already produced in that serie at this time.

 

Anyway ragarding gameplay , a G6 and a la-5 F would be just great as collector plane !

Edited September 20, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[Saurer]

The thing is that if we go total historicall 1.42 ata will most probably not be available and then the G-4 has absolutly nothing new to offer 

 

On the other hand Kuban needs a 109, and if the G-6 does not fit in the Timeline I would argue to include the G-2 again and make some different plane, for example the IAR 80 which is relevant for Stalingrad in return

Edited September 20, 2016 by Saurer

[Trinkof]

The thing is that if we go total historicall 1.42 ata will most probably not be available and then the G-4 has absolutly nothing new to offer

Most probably yeah... And together with the p39, new yak1b and larger number of la-5, it is possibly part of the explaination why LW had his butt kicked over Kuban, as the number of planes were roughly equals on both sides.

 

The speed difference gap had been filled...

Edited September 20, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[Luger1969]

The G2 is my favourite fighter. It just will mean historically that I transfer then to the G4 as in real life, seamlessly. Thanks for the above info LAL that is a wow in terms of numbers did not know it was so big. The timeline also for me clears some questions that I had on the aircraft set (variants).

 

I actually think that a lot of thinking went into the aircraft set for BOK intentionally. They hang together with BOM/BOS so there can be options for integration and usage.

 

And as Jason said there is a consideration to 2 additional collectors planes should it be possible and this will also be something to look forward to.

[Asgar]

Historical planes please, if the G6 wasn't there I'll be happy to use anything that was!

The G-6 is historical. It was introduced to Kuban in June '43, the Germans left Kuban in October '43

[Trinkof]

The G-6 is historical. It was introduced to Kuban in June '43, the Germans left Kuban in October '43

What is called Kuban air battle was over... It would be like having a spit IIb in a BOB senario (blitz ended in 1941... ) or a yak 9 over stalingrad.

 

I would really buy a collector G6 and la5F , but regarding kuban air battle, those were annectotical.

 

Standard planeset is supposed to be representative ... Collector is period related but not specifically rekated to the battle itself.

Edited September 20, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[Livai]

I love this calculation --> Subtract from the plane what some want G-6 the plane what we already have G-2 to get the plane what some not want G-4! 

G-6 - G-2 = G-4

Edited September 20, 2016 by Superghostboy

[=FEW=ayamoth89]

You are talking about historical/timeline realism.... This game is so historical that an E-7 (the very last version of that plane able to shoot down spits and hurricanes) could be easily killed by an I-16! And what about the Macchi? It NEVER EVER used cannon pods! Only one plane tested them during war but they put it in game. Developers could add the original DB 601 engine (that was delivered to Italy because they were unable to produce a decent Alfa Romeo copy) as unlock and remove the warthunder style gunpods. And the FW190 is rubbish in this game.I think that are many other "realism" problems in this game to solve

[150GCT_Veltro]

Server admin make it historicall.

 

If people would like test Macchi with 20mm..........why not? More options are always wellcome. This is not a problem at all, nothing to complain here.

 

G6 and La-5F would be historiclaly correct for our online games to stay in topic, even if in very low number.

 

There is always this problem.....offline, online...singleplayer, multiplayer.

Edited September 20, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[SCG_Neun]

I love this calculation --> Subtract from the plane what some want G-6 the plane what we already have G-2 to get the plane what some not want G-4! 

G-6 - G-2 = G-4

This is completely logical.    

[216th_Jordan]

 

G-6 - G-2 = G-4

 

Sorry but this equation turns out this way:

 

G - 6 - G - 2  =  - 8

 

[Finkeren]

The LW pilots should be grateful to have the G-4 and not the early G-6. Means they will still have a healthy advantage in speed and climb rate over the P-39L, Yak-1B and Spit Mk. V.

[=FEW=ayamoth89]

Even if I agreed with your examples, is that any reason to not do things historically for future additions?

 

No, it will be better to do things historically correct in the future, but I think that add a plane that probably joined the only the last part of an aerial campaign/battle (109 G6) is not a big problem!

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Come on guys admit it, you just want the G6 for Mk 108 cannon!

 

Reality check though, they are like pop guns and were really weak and ineffective.

 

Just take a look using 4 108 cannons .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK4cKzI3-ZY

 

 

 

Edit:  its been hinted at and I'm hopeful that the G6 will eventually be added to the plane set.

 

I really like those north american comedy movies

 

30mm test movie:

 

 

Wanna 30mm ?!  Get your 110   

Edited September 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[FTC_Etherlight]

@ Ether - torpedo runs are boring?! Madness! Low level, keeping level, AAA fire coming in,... far from boring!

 

In my opinion of course, and you have yours

 

I get that torpedo runs are exciting in a...mh..cineastic way or as a fresh experience, it would certainly get my heart pumping the first time, no question about it. But it's not very exciting for me from a piloting perspective, you know? It's like the Death Star in Star Wars, you stay on target and hope that you don't get rekt by the giant laser towers in front or Darth Hartmann behind you. ^^ Also I feel like a good old JaBo divebomb is more difficult and interesting to pull off. Personal preference, as you said.

 

The LW pilots should be grateful to have the G-4 and not the early G-6. Means they will still have a healthy advantage in speed and climb rate over the P-39L, Yak-1B and Spit Mk. V.

 

It's not about advantage, tho. At least not for me or the people I talked to about this. If there is no possible new, interesting fighter to have - okay, fine, but the G-4 is for all intends and purposes a worthless addition. Some other kind of plane would therefore be a better choice in my book, literally anything at all. ^^

[unreasonable]

The advantage of not having the G-6 is that we will not have every 109 flying the same skin.

 

 

 

[LukeFF]

You are talking about historical/timeline realism.... This game is so historical that an E-7 (the very last version of that plane able to shoot down spits and hurricanes) could be easily killed by an I-16! And what about the Macchi? It NEVER EVER used cannon pods! Only one plane tested them during war but they put it in game. Developers could add the original DB 601 engine (that was delivered to Italy because they were unable to produce a decent Alfa Romeo copy) as unlock and remove the warthunder style gunpods. And the FW190 is rubbish in this game.I think that are many other "realism" problems in this game to solve

 

There are no more unlocks in the game. Please stop using that term.

[Livai]

Sorry but this equation turns out this way:

 

G - 6 - G - 2  =  - 8

 

 

All want the Bf-109 G-8 much more than the Bf-109 G-6 but sadly the equation math turns this out

 

( G - 6 ) - ( G - 2 )  = G - 4 

 

 

BTW inside your calculation you overlooked the -6. You was so damned close to a -8 if that -6 was not there!

[150GCT_Veltro]

The pure unadulterated outrage that a plane that wasn't at the battle won't be included in a game depicting said battle is a bit silly you must admit. Especially when their request for the G-6 has already been answered with a very accommodating response from Jason and they continue to bang on about it.

 

Good to know.

Where as been stated something about G6? Link please.

 

Probably there is not enough consciousness about German WW2 aviation as "best seller" for a WW2 flight sim business company, G6 is one of them.

 

G4 is fine if we could have G6 later, 100%.

 

MTO has been cut off for very questionable reasons (CoD is sold via Steam for ex.) and is not acceptable at all, we need some more time to elaborate it.

 

...and sorry to be rude, but CoD is not the same with all respect for DT.

 

G6 is G6, and we don't care if it was just a target for Yak-9 and Yak-3.

Edited September 20, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[LukeFF]

 

 

Probably there is not enough consciousness about German WW2 aviation as "best seller" for a WW2 flight sim business company, G6 is one of them.

 

What?

 

 

 

MTO has been cut off for very questionable reasons (CoD is sold via Steam for ex.) and is not acceptable at all, we need some more time to elaborate it.

 

No, they have made their decision, have explained that decision, and now they are moving forward. 

[unreasonable]

All want the Bf-109 G-8 much more than the Bf-109 G-6 but sadly the equation math turns this out

 

( G - 6 ) - ( G - 2 )  = G - 4 

 

 

BTW inside your calculation you overlooked the -6. You was so damned close to a -8 if that -6 was not there!

 

No, Jordan was right. Just replace G with any number and see what you get.

[150GCT_Veltro]

No, they have made their decision, have explained that decision, and now they are moving forward. 

 

Sure, very questionables as said above.

 

We'll support it, don't worry but it's questionable.

 

1) CoD is sold for 10 Euro via Steam, very few money for 1C;

 

2) We have almost ready the 90% of Axis aviation and we are getting the Spitfire too, so this statament is a nosense.

 

 

I know the Mediterranean and North Africa theatre is interesting to a lot of people, it's interesting to us too but we also have to look at resources, reference material that we have, just straight up knowledge of the theatre. Obviously my guys know a lot about the Eastern Front, obviously myself and some people I work with have a lot of knowledge about the Pacific war. Not a lot of us have a lot of information about the Mediterranean theatre.

 

3) Hurricane and Blenheim are ready in CoD, 1C property;

 

4) Italian community can provide all references they need for italian aircrafts (SM-79 would be enough);

 

5) A North Africa map (not Malta or Sicily) could be not so impegnative i think.

 

6) 1C has said NO THANK, amen.

 

7) Don't ask us to say always "Whooooo thank!".

 

We'll give our support as for our feedback, live with it.

 

8) CUT OFF completely MTO is not accepatable, period.

Edited September 20, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

I think the point was that they ruled out the Med as the *next* release because Team Fusion are actively working on it. The 2 Pacific battles will take us out to mid 2018 at the earliest, so by then Team Fusion will have either long since released their Med mod or released nothing and would relinquish any supposed "right" to that theatre. I would think 1C/777 would do another East Front battle after the 2 Pac battles in any case, so even if Team Fusion is successful it would be long after their version, so no real toes to be stepped on anymore. All MHO of course. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by II./ZG1_HarryM

[Trooper117]

I think the point was that they ruled out the Med as the *next* release because Team Fusion are actively working on it.

 

 

The Africa/Med theatre is huge... TF is doing Tobruk, but there is Malta, Tunisia, Crete, Sicily, Italy... No one would be stepping on anyone's toes.

The point is moot however due to Jason stating they don't have the knowledge, so the dice have been rolled... we wait to see how it comes out.

[LukeFF]

2) We have almost ready the 90% of Axis aviation and we are getting the Spitfire too, so this statament is a nosense.

 

3) Hurricane and Blenheim are ready in CoD, 1C property;

 

4) Italian community can provide all references they need for italian aircrafts (SM-79 would be enough);

 

5) A North Africa map (not Malta or Sicily) could be not so impegnative i think.

 

6) 1C has said NO THANK, amen.

 

7) Don't ask us to say always "Whooooo thank!".

 

We'll give our support as for our feedback, live with it.

 

8) CUT OFF completely MTO is not accepatable, period.

 

You really don't understand the way software like this is developed. 

[=FEW=ayamoth89]

There are no more unlocks in the game. Please stop using that term.

Sorry, I will not stop using that term only because you don't like it. My opinion (and not only mine) is that you need to change you unlocks, not add a new one.

What?

 

 

 

 

No, they have made their decision, have explained that decision, and now they are moving forward. 

Sometimes decisions could be bad decision!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It must be kept in mind that not all Battle of Kuban customers own Battle of Stalingrad, and saying 'well I do so it doesn't matter' won't change that.

 

By having the Bf-109G-4, pilots who own BoK without BoS have a decent Bf-109 to ride to the dance and fly in servers running 1942 maps. The landing gear should improve ground handling, and there is a chance that additional loadouts will add some variety between the G-2. Even if that turns out not to be the case, it was the overwhelmingly more popular variant over Kuban so omitting it would be like BoM without the MiG-3.

 

The doom and gloom over a variant of one fighter is funny to watch though. The Pe-2s we have are only slightly different, and the 1943 Il-2 we're getting is more or less the same as the 1942 variant but with a proper gunner station.

 

WW2 simulations following the 1946 path are not all about wildly different aircraft in every title, but rather the overall variety you get from owning multiple titles.

 

On top of everything, as someone stated, the early 1943 Bf-109G-6 you clamour for is not only wrong historically but also a complete piece of junk by most means when compared to its predecessors. Its inclusion wouldn't add much in terms of variety, and all we'd get is whiners saying 'OMG dat ruski cheated, I fly Bf-109 just liek Erik Hartman and he shot me down in stinky P-39 lololololololol bias plz redo the FMs this game is a jok'.

[Custard]

Sorry, I will not stop using that term only because you don't like it. My opinion (and not only mine) is that you need to change you unlocks, not add a new one.

 

What do you even mean by this? There are no more unlocks in the game, cool it.

[=FEW=ayamoth89]

What do you even mean by this? There are no more unlocks in the game, cool it.

I think that developers could change the current plane's unlocks to solvo some problems, don't you think?

[Custard]

I think that developers could change the current plane's unlocks to solvo some problems, don't you think?

 

I there's a misunderstanding, LukeFF is saying that unlocks are no longer in the game (as in, you no longer have to grind to use them). I'm not sure how you interpreted that though.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Unlocks no longer exist in the game. They were eliminated some time ago now. All developer produced mods/weapons are now open and available to all players.

 

I do not recall if this applies to skins but someone knowledgeable will follow this up shortly.

Edited September 20, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Lusekofte]

Sure, very questionables as said above.

 

We'll support it, don't worry but it's questionable.

 

1) CoD is sold for 10 Euro via Steam, very few money for 1C;

 

2) We have almost ready the 90% of Axis aviation and we are getting the Spitfire too, so this statament is a nosense.

 

 

3) Hurricane and Blenheim are ready in CoD, 1C property;

 

4) Italian community can provide all references they need for italian aircrafts (SM-79 would be enough);

 

5) A North Africa map (not Malta or Sicily) could be not so impegnative i think.

 

6) 1C has said NO THANK, amen.

 

7) Don't ask us to say always "Whooooo thank!".

 

We'll give our support as for our feedback, live with it.

 

8) CUT OFF completely MTO is not accepatable, period.

 

The TF patch got nothing to do with 1C. And there has never been any sign we get MTO from the developers, how can this be questionable?

Kuban is probably the one they can make within a timeline they need money, Pasific is probably already on the drawing board so they got a chance to do it in the next. If we got MTO next my guess is we had to wait for it until 2018. There is a economical reason for Kuban first, they need money for development and cannot ask for funding from us 2 years ahead of release.

Be realistic, this sim is based on capitalism, bills to be paid and salaries. I totally understand their reason, same goes for the choice doing PTO, they are hoping it will bring new customers, giving them liberty and time to develop more. It is for the best, even for those wishing for MTO.

[Extreme_One]

Perhaps the confusion stems from the fact that in the in-game interface the loadouts are still referred to as "unlocks" - even though you no longer need to unlock them.

 

I hope that future interface improvements include renaming these to avoid further confusion.

[LukeFF]

 

 

Sorry, I will not stop using that term only because you don't like it. My opinion (and not only mine) is that you need to change you unlocks, not add a new one.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25105-20b-thoughts/?view=findpost&p=386562

 

 

 

Also, I don't work for 1CGS.   

[LukeFF]

Unlocks no longer exist in the game. They were eliminated some time ago now. All developer produced mods/weapons are now open and available to all players.

 

I do not recall if this applies to skins but someone knowledgeable will follow this up shortly.

 

Yes, all skins are also now unlocked. 

Perhaps the confusion stems from the fact that in the in-game interface the loadouts are still referred to as "unlocks" - even though you no longer need to unlock them.

 

I hope that future interface improvements include renaming these to avoid further confusion.

 

I agree that would be a good thing to do.

[Livai]

No, Jordan was right. Just replace G with any number and see what you get.

 

Done, see below

I forgot about the Bf-109 from the F-Serie and E-Serie what we already have in-game.

 

Bf-109 F-2

( (-2) - 6 ) - ( (-2) - 2 )  = - 4 

 

Bf-109 F-4

( (-4) - 6 ) - ( (-4) - 2 )  = - 4

 

Bf-109 E-7

( (-7) - 6 ) - ( (-7) - 2 ) = - 4

 

I created the perfect probability calculation why we get only the Bf-109 G-4

Edited September 20, 2016 by Superghostboy

[Asgar]

Stop the spam

[ShamrockOneFive]

Good to know.

Where as been stated something about G6? Link please.

 

Probably there is not enough consciousness about German WW2 aviation as "best seller" for a WW2 flight sim business company, G6 is one of them.

 

G4 is fine if we could have G6 later, 100%.

 

MTO has been cut off for very questionable reasons (CoD is sold via Steam for ex.) and is not acceptable at all, we need some more time to elaborate it.

 

...and sorry to be rude, but CoD is not the same with all respect for DT.

 

G6 is G6, and we don't care if it was just a target for Yak-9 and Yak-3.

 

The issue of the Bf109G-6 came up in the Q&A session with Jason a little over a week ago now. I wrote the relevant info in my summary but you can also listen to the whole thing. The G-6 question comes up... probably 2/3rds of the way through.

 

Read or listen https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/09/10/qa-with-jason-williams-summary/

 

Bottom line for the devs is that they picked the most numerous type of Bf109 in the battle and thats the G-4. Since the announcement, players have been talking about the Bf109G-6 and the La-5F. Both were latecomers to the battle but they were present so Jason is listening and these two could be part of a Collector Plane release later. Maybe. Jason was very careful not to promise that right now.

Edited September 21, 2016 by ShamrockOneFive

[150GCT_Veltro]

 

Aircraft questions

• Why has the team picked the Bf109G-4 over the G-6?
  • The G-6 was either not available or only minimally available during the battle, most were flying the G-4
  • Possibility to add it later?
    • Would like to make two other planes before leaving Kuban as Collector Planes
    • G-6 and La-5F weren’t on the original list but they could happen
• Existing plane modifications like RoF?
  • Unlikely to happen in the same way as RoF

 

Thank you very much, is enough for me. Wait, hope and see.

 

G6 150GCT

Edited September 21, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro