Excited about the Bf109 G4 but....

[novicebutdeadly]

Firstly this is not an FM discussion (per se)

When I first thought about the 109 G4 what I was expecting was a G2 but with a revised power setting to allow 1.42 ata (from memory), so a G2 but even better (not that it isn't already an awesome plane and my favorite ride), though I can't remember off the top of my head when the power limitation was raised (someone feel free to comment on when this happened)

 

But the more I look the less difference I find, perhaps it's that on the later G2's the engine power settings were increased and so there is no real difference between a late G2 and a G4 (other than radio) especially since the under carriage changes were retro fitted into G2's (most sources I read so that there is no performance difference between the 109 G2 and G4).

Which kind of makes me wonder as to why the devs chose this iteration rather than the G6 (which entered service in February 1943)

 

Perhaps there were no G6's used in this particular campaign??

To me this isn't a real deal breaker as most of the time in il21946 I didn't try to use the 13mm to take down bombers, and the 7.9's do damage to current Russian fighters (in case I run out of 20mm....).


Provided the power setting was raised on later G2's, to me it would make sense to have a G2 "late" and a G6 rather than a G4

And perhaps the Russians could get the La5F (which I believe entered Service in March 1943)






 

[76IAP-Black]

Have you ever thought about the Devs are trying to keep the G6 for another Scenario?

[LittleJP]

?? There's no G6 in Midway/Okinawa

[150GCT_Veltro]

We all agree about this point i think, however G4 was there in great number....so.

 

We can hope for a G6 - La-5F DLC.

 

Indeed, MTO is gone and PTO ...we know, no Gustav there.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[LukeFF]

Once again, the G-6 did not enter service in the East until June of 1943. The timeline the team is using for Kuban ends before that time.

Edited September 19, 2016 by LukeFF

[150GCT_Veltro]

Once again, the G-6 did not enter service in the East until June of 1943. The timeline the team is using for Kuban ends before that time.

 

One again....this is IL2 forum, and people like Gustav 6, like it a lot in spite it was probably the worst ever.

 

Nobody care about time line chosen for BoK, we know it.

 

It's called feedback, please live with that.

 

Bump for Gustav 6 in Kuban!

 

Edit: via DLC off course.

 

We'll ask for G6 till Jason will give us an answer: You'll get it guys, but later. We have completely lost MTO, can we have at least a G6 for our online games? Is people asking too much?

Edited September 19, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

We can hope for a G6 - La-5F DLC.

 

Some early La-5F were razorbacks, not bubble-canopy  

[Gambit21]

One again....this is IL2 forum, and people like Gustav 6, like it a lot in spite it was probably the worst ever.

 

Nobody care about time line chosen for BoK, we know it.

 

It's called feedback, please live with that.

 

Bump for Gustav 6 in Kuban!

 

Edit: via DLC off course.

 

We'll ask for G6 till Jason will give us an answer: You'll get it guys, but later. We have completely lost MTO, can we have at least a G6 for our online games? Is people asking too much?

If I were a Dev this one post alone would be enough for me to not want to give it to you. You're not helping your cause. Edited September 19, 2016 by Gambit21

[FTC_Etherlight]

Well, I'm not surprised that people who are mainly flying LW are pushing for different planes, cause let's be honest here, the Germans don't get exciting new toys in BoK. The G-4 is basically a G-2, the Heinkel 111 is...well...a Heinkel. The 110 G6 is a 110 with slighty more interesting loadouts, the 109 A-5 with it's more aerodynamically put engine might fix the FW problem this game has and finally the collector plane HS 129 B-2 will most likely be an interesting but borderline useless death trap in the kind of airwar we engage in in this Sim. With the Spit, the Airacobra and the A-20B the VVS is simply much more interesting in terms of lineup, so I get the sentiment. Without the collector plane, there is basically no truly fresh gameplay experience for the LW, which is probably the biggest issue I got with BoK. But I do not think there will be any changes for the lineup at this point, so it's probably an exercise in futility to talk about this. Maybe we get to spend more money for something that's actually interesting on the LW side before the Pacific hits.

[Bearfoot]

Well, I'm not surprised that people who are mainly flying LW are pushing for different planes, cause let's be honest here, the Germans don't get exciting new toys in BoK. The G-4 is basically a G-2, the Heinkel 111 is...well...a Heinkel. The 110 G6 is a 110 with slighty more interesting loadouts, the 109 A-5 with it's more aerodynamically put engine might fix the FW problem this game has and finally the collector plane HS 129 B-2 will most likely be an interesting but borderline useless death trap in the kind of airwar we engage in in this Sim. With the Spit, the Airacobra and the A-20B the VVS is simply much more interesting in terms of lineup, so I get the sentiment. Without the collector plane, there is basically no truly fresh gameplay experience for the LW, which is probably the biggest issue I got with BoK. But I do not think there will be any changes for the lineup at this point, so it's probably an exercise in futility to talk about this. Maybe we get to spend more money for something that's actually interesting on the LW side before the Pacific hits.

 

 

Do people who are "mainly flying LW" really doing that because they love the "brand" or the regime? Really?  Maybe other people don't care about LW vs VVS (ideology/nationalism), but fly the plane they like? E.g., I currently fly mostly the Bf-109F4/G2, Bf-110, Ju-88 ... so ya, mainly LW. But that's because I like the a/c and associated mission profile. I have absolutely no feelings/loyalties about LW vs VVS. LW just happens to have a/c I like. And I can tell you this for sure: when the A-20 gets released, I am going to be sitting behind that stick no matter what the flag/symbol is painted on the side: it could be a hippo in a pink tutu for all I care!

 

But maybe it's not all about the planes either? 

 

Maybe the map, and its very different terrain works well enough? E.g., even if the plane set expansion was exactly zero, I'd be just as excited about Kuban for the different landscape? 

 

Maybe (and for me this a big one), the different mission profiles: e.g., greatly expanded opportunity for shipping attacks, both dive bombing and ... TORPEDOES!!!!!!!!!! I would not shed a single tear of angst if the only difference in planes between BoS/BoM is that they added (appropriate) torpedo-carrying capability to the (appropriate) a/c. 

[Custard]

A lot of salt in this thread... Jason has already said he's open to a G-6 collector plane DLC if they have the time but honestly if i were him the sheer entitlement of some posts in this thread would put me off.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Custard

[Gambit21]

yep

[Bearfoot]

A lot of salt in this thread... Jason has already said he's open to a G-6 collector plane DLC if they have the time but honestly if i were him the sheer entitlement of some posts in this thread would put me off.

+1

[Asgar]

A lot of salt in this thread... Jason has already said he's open to a G-6 collector plane DLC if they have the time but honestly if i were him the sheer entitlement of some posts in this thread would put me off.

Entitlement? You mean people who think the most produced variant of the Bf 109 should be represented in their favourite game?

[Bearfoot]

Entitlement? You mean people who think the most produced variant of the Bf 109 should be represented in their favourite game?

 

I think it's less about what people want, but rather how they want it ("NOW(-ish)!") and are asking for it ("BWAAAAAAA!"). 

 

Everyone wants things, and naturally what I want takes personal precedence over what the you want or the developers want (to provide). But there is no need to demand it sine qua non with outrage. The latter is when one crosses the "entitlement" line.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Bearfoot

[Custard]

Entitlement? You mean people who think the most produced variant of the Bf 109 should be represented in their favourite game?

 

The pure unadulterated outrage that a plane that wasn't at the battle won't be included in a game depicting said battle is a bit silly you must admit. Especially when their request for the G-6 has already been answered with a very accommodating response from Jason and they continue to bang on about it.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Custard

[LukeFF]

 

 

Nobody care about time line chosen for BoK, we know it.

 

Oh, you do?    

 

 

 

It's called feedback, please live with that.

 

 

Please remember that the next time you post a reply. My feedback is just as valid as anyone else's. 

[Brano]

Well,its clear that going to Pacific after BoK is not welcomed by LW G-6 pilots. They will miss their G-6. But don't worry.You are not alone.VVS Yak-9 and La-5F/FN pilots will miss Yak-9 and La-5F/FN. It's a lose-lose situation :D

Edit: corrected because some people dont give a small rodent rear parts about LW,VVS,IJN,USAAF or whatever airforce there was 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Brano

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

The 110 G6 is a 110 with slighty more interesting loadouts,

 

Well, Bf110G-2  is a rather modern heavy fighter in early 1943. In that case, Bf110E-2 is a "twin engined Stuka" in 1942, nothing more...

[Bearfoot]

Well,its clear that going to Pacific after BoK is not welcomed by LW pilots. They will miss their G-6. But don't worry.You are not alone.VVS will miss Yak-9 and La-5F/FN. It's a lose-lose situation :D

 

I am thrilled about the Pacific. But then, I don't give a rat's ass about LW vs VVS vs IJN vs USN or whatever the flags painted on the a/c air. I care about the a/c and flying. That is, I am not a "LW pilot" or a "VVS pilot", but a Bf-109 pilot or a Pe-2 pilot.

 

 

Carrier warfare .............. bring it on even if it is the "Insect Overlord Forces" vs. the "Reptilian Horde Militia"

Edited September 19, 2016 by Bearfoot

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

if the timeline for 777 Kuban Battle reaches not till the G-6 serviceentry in the east, its also not the right time for an 1,42ata DB605A in the Bf109G-4 IIRC

[Brano]

Our only hope to see G-6 and La-5F/FN is collector's bundle + 3rd party map of Kursk.Otherwise LW G-6 and VVS La-5F/FN pilots are doomed for the next decade :D

Edit: corrected because some people dont give a small rodent rear parts about LW,VVS,IJN,USAAF or whatever airforce there was 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Brano

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Once again, the G-6 did not enter service in the East until June of 1943. The timeline the team is using for Kuban ends before that time.

Preach it brother.

[FTC_Etherlight]

Do people who are "mainly flying LW" really doing that because they love the "brand" or the regime? Really?  Maybe other people don't care about LW vs VVS (ideology/nationalism), but fly the plane they like? E.g., I currently fly mostly the Bf-109F4/G2, Bf-110, Ju-88 ... so ya, mainly LW. But that's because I like the a/c and associated mission profile. I have absolutely no feelings/loyalties about LW vs VVS. LW just happens to have a/c I like. And I can tell you this for sure: when the A-20 gets released, I am going to be sitting behind that stick no matter what the flag/symbol is painted on the side: it could be a hippo in a pink tutu for all I care!

 

But maybe it's not all about the planes either? 

 

Maybe the map, and its very different terrain works well enough? E.g., even if the plane set expansion was exactly zero, I'd be just as excited about Kuban for the different landscape? 

 

Maybe (and for me this a big one), the different mission profiles: e.g., greatly expanded opportunity for shipping attacks, both dive bombing and ... TORPEDOES!!!!!!!!!! I would not shed a single tear of angst if the only difference in planes between BoS/BoM is that they added (appropriate) torpedo-carrying capability to the (appropriate) a/c. 

Sure, there are people where politics come into play, there's weirdos everywhere. I mainly play LW, because the high speed, vertical high deflection kind of combat that the LW planes are good at is what I personally prefer. That's about it. I don't really care all that much about terrain, because in most cases it's eye candy and has no great meaning for the fights itself in my experience. Pacific will be another story obviously. And yes, I too will enjoy different ground targets I can kill with my A-20 and IL-2, but that is not the meat of the game for me. For me, and quite a few other people, the actual planes and the air-to-air combat is the meat of the game. That's just a fact of life I guess. Sure, some people will be extremely happy with just torpedoes (which is the most boring kind of strike-mission in my book) and stuff, but quite a few people will not and I don't see the problem in voicing those opinions. It's free market research. ^^ Sure, some people come off as pretty harsh, disrespectful and entitled, but those words are being overused on this forum in my opinion. In many, many threads, any criticism of the implementation of things and the design decision or future plans for the game is (sometimes intentionally) being misconstrued as trolling, entitlement or other buzzwords, mainly from a very vocal and very small bunch of fanboys that would give their grandmothers pantys to the dev if they were asked to do so. It's mainly a shitstorm raging between the two extremes in these threads that make a civilized, differentiated discussion about the pros and cons so hard on this forum.

 

Well,its clear that going to Pacific after BoK is not welcomed by LW pilots. They will miss their G-6. But don't worry.You are not alone.VVS will miss Yak-9 and La-5F/FN. It's a lose-lose situation :D

It's very much welcomed by me, I'll be the first to hop into all those new planes that will give us a very fresh and new meta considering the dogfights. I'll probably be a mainly Allied pilot in the Pacific, because their playstyle in that matchup will be much closer to the LW playstyle than the Japanese in most cases I assume. We'll see. I just don't think people care all that much about "Luftwaffe" or "Soviet Airforce". Almost everyone I play with and talk to is about different combat styles, interesting matchups and a good balanced meta. I don't care what's painted on the plane or which country it fought for.

 

And that's what it boils down to I guess. For people like me who like the LW playstyle, there will simply be no new interesting toy in BoK. Sure, I'll enjoy flying the Airacobra and the Spit from time to time, but they'll never make up my go-to planes. I'll just have to wait for the pacific to get new, interesting stuff I'll actually want to play for prolonged time. Bummer. ^^

Edited September 19, 2016 by JG4_Ether

[Brano]

Oh,sorry,how could I dare to mention LW and VVS in context of history based CFS. My apologies. Will edit my post so you don't have to write another off topic wall of text :D

[Bearfoot]

Oh,sorry,how could I dare to mention LW and VVS in context of history based CFS. My apologies. Will edit my post so you don't have to write another off topic wall of text :D

Please don't worry on my account. And, for the record, so you do not get upset over nothing or the wrong thing, tt's not that you "mentioned LW and VVS". It is the implication that players play the game due to some loyalty to "LW" and "VVS". That is simply not universally true. It would be sad if it were. 

[Lusekofte]

Ah so after all these years historical facts do not matter anymore. Well why do you moan about the Yak FM and the FW 190 FM then. If we are going to abandon historical facts why not just get this

 

[TheElf]

One again....this is IL2 forum, and people like Gustav 6, like it a lot in spite it was probably the worst ever.

 

Nobody care about time line chosen for BoK, we know it.

 

It's called feedback, please live with that.

 

Bump for Gustav 6 in Kuban!

 

Edit: via DLC off course.

 

We'll ask for G6 till Jason will give us an answer: You'll get it guys, but later. We have completely lost MTO, can we have at least a G6 for our online games? Is people asking too much?

 

I agree the G4 is a G2.  Minor differences but guess what...?

 

Surprise!!!! Those who advocated to stay on the Eastern Front GOT WHAT THEY ASKED FOR.  Take a look at the plane set.  Exactly 4 new planes and 6 slightly modified planes we ALREADY have.  Congratulations.  lol...

 

 

Nope.  No G6 in Kuban.  Read up on your history, or get your a-historical Airplane match-up fix from another source.  

Edited September 19, 2016 by TheElf

[Brano]

Please don't worry on my account. And, for the record, so you do not get upset over nothing or the wrong thing, tt's not that you "mentioned LW and VVS". It is the implication that players play the game due to some loyalty to "LW" and "VVS". That is simply not universally true. It would be sad if it were. 

I didnt mean to imply anything like that. Im the last to give a small rodent rear part for whatever airforce. Slovak pilots flew alongside RAF,LW,VVS,Insurgent Combined flight...you name it 

[Jade_Monkey]

They picked the G4 because it's historically accurate.

 

Some people may think there is no point, but there is one:

 

BOK is supposed to work as a standalone product for those who want to, and therefore they need a 109 that fits the timeline for that map.

Most of us will have the G2 and are probably not really excited about a G4 but, some people will only have the G4 as their 109.

[Rjel]

HEY!!!!!!! How 'bout them Dodgers?????

 

That'll give some of you something different to argue about for a change.

[Fern]

Ah so after all these years historical facts do not matter anymore. Well why do you moan about the Yak FM and the FW 190 FM then. If we are going to abandon historical facts why not just get this

 

 

Well it matters if were talking T-65 or T-70 X wing fighters. The T-65 had 4L4 Fusial thrust engines with top speed of 1,050 km/h with deflector shields vs the T-70 5L5 engines with top speed of 1,050 km/h. 

[novicebutdeadly]

Perhaps my timeline is out, I simply googled battle of Kuban to get the correct dates, 

 

I was under the impression that it finished in October 1943, unless the Kuban Bridgehead is a a different campaign??


@Jade_Monkey, you make a good point that I hadn't considered

@ TheElf, I think you misunderstand in that people wanted to stay in Europe not the Eastern Front, and mainly wanted the Med.


The reason I started this wasn't to complain in order to get the G6, but in a bit of dismay, in that we are stuck with this plane set for the foreseeable future.

 

Perhaps as has been pointed out we may get the G6 later on (??)

 

BUT in saying this I still can't wait for Kuban, taking a Ju88 (which should still be usable??) and saying G'day to some merchantmen :-) :-) 






 

 

 

 

[Gambit21]

And that's what it boils down to I guess. For people like me who like the LW playstyle, there will simply be no new interesting toy in BoK. Sure, I'll enjoy flying the Airacobra and the Spit from time to time, but they'll never make up my go-to planes. I'll just have to wait for the pacific to get new, interesting stuff I'll actually want to play for prolonged time. Bummer. ^^

 

Now you see - I don't understand this.

Why does your G2, G4 F2 and E7 become less interesting and desirable or fun to fly because you're not getting the G6?

Some of you act like you don't have a 109 at all, never-mind you already have the best ones produced.

In fact if you're going to argue for anything that fits your "I don't care about terrain or history...pew pew pew! I got U LOLz!" playstyle, you should be clamoring for the F4!

 

I think 109 fans are sitting pretty from where I stand, and I'm a 109 fan of sorts myself.

Having said that I have no dog in the fight, if they do hand us a G6 I will wonder what relevant, non-redundant aircraft we missed out on.

I'll keep quiet about it, but I'll wonder.

 

If you like the "LW playstyle" whatever that is, then from my point of view you have PLENTY to make you happy.

 

Further, you're not getting a real 109 G6, and your pretend G6 might not perform up to your expectations anyway.

I think some (not say all) want a bit of a "dweeb" plane that's basically a win button, and the G6 certainly is not that.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Gambit21

[Bearfoot]

I didnt mean to imply anything like that. Im the last to give a small rodent rear part for whatever airforce. Slovak pilots flew alongside RAF,LW,VVS,Insurgent Combined flight...you name it 

Then, my apologies for misinterpreting what you meant. Sorry.

[Brano]

No problem Bearfoot,no need to apologize

[Asgar]

Perhaps my timeline is out, I simply googled battle of Kuban to get the correct dates,

 

I was under the impression that it finished in October 1943

 

That is correct. The Germans retreated in October. But apparently it's more important what some historians say out of boredom and not fact or actual fighting. Edited September 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[Sokol1]

Could be added this IL-2 for BOK?

 

[[CPT]milopugdog]

What a mess

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Come on guys admit it, you just want the G6 for Mk 108 cannon!

 

Reality check though, they are like pop guns and were really weak and ineffective.

 

Just take a look using 4 108 cannons .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK4cKzI3-ZY

 

 

 

Edit:  its been hinted at and I'm hopeful that the G6 will eventually be added to the plane set.

Edited September 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Custard