Which Spitfire Engine are we getting in our MkVb?

[Bullets]

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_mkV.html

 

According to this website the MkV's were produced with 3 different engines, just wondering which one we are going to be getting! I for one hope its the more powerful and effective at altitude Merlin 45 as it would give us something to fight the 109's at altitude! 

 

 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Merlin 46 most likely. Don't know wether it will come with full 16" or lower. 

[Trooper117]

Yep, I'd say the Merlin 46

[Bullets]

but the 46 was the least powerful out of them all?   With 1190 vs the 1440 of the Merlin 45  Please give us a spit that can contend =( 

[Trooper117]

The Merlin 46 version was the Spitfire Mk Vb's that arrived for the battle of Kuban I believe... not near my books at the moment so I can't say for sure.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Maybe of interest    http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/index.htm

[Bullets]

The Merlin 46 version was the Spitfire Mk Vb's that arrived for the battle of Kuban I believe... not near my books at the moment so I can't say for sure.

 

That might be true but i was under the impression collectors aircraft don't have to be specific to the region of the game they are released with. 

[No601_Swallow]

Doesn't matter. The Vb will dazzle opponents to death by its sheer grace and beauty.

[Trooper117]

The Mk Vb fought in the Kuban battle... it would make no sense to give it an engine it didn't have.

If they wanted to give the players a better lend lease Spitfire as a 'collectors' aircraft, they could have put a Mk IX lend lease Spit.

I hope they keep it historical with the correct engined Mk Vb...

Edited September 18, 2016 by Trooper117

[Pupo]

maybe have the non-historic engine as a modification?

 

historic servers can lock this modification out, and more competitive servers can allow it.

 

The more options we have, the merrier 

[Medicated]

maybe have the non-historic engine as a modification?

 

historic servers can lock this modification out, and more competitive servers can allow it.

 

The more options we have, the merrier

That's a very slippery slope. If we start doing that for many aircraft, then people will be complaining to get modifications on nearly all the planes in the game for the sake of "competiveness". Before you know it, then we have taken a historical simulator and turned it into a semi-historical game that is not simulating the time period it was designed to emulate.

 

For me, it's best to leave everything as historical as possible. Gives me a better experience and also makes me learn how to deal with disadvantages, which makes me a better pilot.

 

So if the Spitfire has a lower output engine but its historical, then that's what I want in this game. At least that is my opinion.

[JV69badatflyski]

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25070-discussion-battle-kuban-announcement/page-12?do=findComment&comment=386448

now, let's talk about the russian fuel quality...

 

[seafireliv]

Doesn't matter. The Vb will dazzle opponents to death by its sheer grace and beauty.

 

Yep. They shall sweep the skies like a manic lady getting rid of spiders and cobwebs with her sparkling new broom!

[Willy__]

The Mk Vb fought in the Kuban battle... it would make no sense to give it an engine it didn't have.

If they wanted to give the players a better lend lease Spitfire as a 'collectors' aircraft, they could have put a Mk IX lend lease Spit.

I hope they keep it historical with the correct engined Mk Vb...

+1

[Bullets]

The Mk Vb fought in the Kuban battle... it would make no sense to give it an engine it didn't have.

If they wanted to give the players a better lend lease Spitfire as a 'collectors' aircraft, they could have put a Mk IX lend lease Spit.

I hope they keep it historical with the correct engined Mk Vb...

 

But some did have the Merlin 45..

[707shap_Srbin]

Most Spitfires in Kuban had Merlin '46.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

now, let's talk about the russian fuel quality...

 

Among the supplies of western equipment were spare parts, appropriate fuel and ammunition for the aircraft being operated.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Both engines were available in the Kuban battle so I'd say give us both

[216th_Jordan]

So whats the number of Merlin 45s on Kuban? What I see in that one link is that for the total of USSR lend lease spitfires were 80 Merlin 46 models and 58 Merlin 45 models.

Edited September 19, 2016 by 216th_Jordan

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

So whats the number of Merlin 45s on Kuban?

 

Of arounf 50 Spitfire Mk.V's, passed through 57giap in Kuban, around 40 were from EP series, with Merlin '46 engine, and from 5 to 7 from EN series, with Merlin '45 engine. 

[Venturi]

Among the supplies of western equipment were spare parts, appropriate fuel and ammunition for the aircraft being operated.

 

Also means, full boost capabilities can be used with Merlins (and Allisons).

[Gambit21]

Makes sense to model the version that was there in greater numbers, especially when the difference in number was so great.

Modeling the Merlin 45 version instead of the vastly more common 46 and the Devs will then be accused of intentionally providing a "Dweeb" plane...and the argument would be valid

considering the reality of what was being flown - IMHO.

[JtD]

but the 46 was the least powerful out of them all?   With 1190 vs the 1440 of the Merlin 45  Please give us a spit that can contend =(

That's not accurate at all, this is a mix up of information. Depending on the source,

 

the Merlin 46 at standard 12" boost gave 1100hp, the Merlin 45 about 1185hp,

the Merlin 46 at the upped 16" boost gave 1415hp, the Merlin 45 about 1515hp.

 

Now the Merlin 46 only produced less power at low altitude, at high altitude it did in fact produce more. It used a different supercharger.

[TheBlackPenguin]

How nice to finally see debates over the Spitfire . 

[150GCT_Veltro]

http://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/408166

 

Would be nice have both the versions 45 - 46 but this would require two FM, budget ecc. ecc.......as for G2 1.42.

 

We'll 'see but we'll get probably the 46 so we could have an high alttiude aircraft.

Edited September 19, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[NZTyphoon]

From  The Merlin in Perspective: The Combat Years

 

                                   1                   2      3         4                   5                         6                 

 

 

Key to Columns: 1 = Reduction Gear ratio; 2 = Supercharger gear ratio;  3 = Supercharger Rotor Dia; 4 = Net Dry Weight;

5 = Combat Power & Boost; 6 = Take-off Hp & Boost

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by NZTyphoon

[312_Tygr]

So it seems to be a moot point... I say go with what was historically more prevalent, it's 50 planes, doubt they lasted more than a couple of weeks in real life.

[wtornado]

You had the FW-190 Over Stalingrad why no the Spitfire MK IX.

 

 

When I seen the FW-190 in  the game I told myself that is not right

but when you stop and think about it doesn't matter anymore the

M/P and S/P scenarios there is not enough content in the ME to

make highly precise historical missions. 

 

Good planes,good generic servers like we have now is good enough

and people like it.

 

There are not enough of the hardcore historical players to cry foul about

plane sets and historical missions.

 

There was no uproar when the FW-190 was released.

 

How many of you hosted co-ops and maybe 10% of the players

actually read the briefing all they wanted to do is fly.

 

Even in the online servers today I am sure that 50% of the pilots

do not even read the briefings or rules in standard servers.

 

How many actually even use comms?There is a nice free official BOS

TS3 server and not many are in it.

 

There are Air war hardcore servers that make historical missions

that some like that can be historically accurate they can remove

the non historical planes if they want pure accurate historic servers.

[unreasonable]

 

You had the FW-190 Over Stalingrad why no the Spitfire MK IX.

 

 

 Because the alternate history in which 190s operated over Stalingrad was a lot more likely.

 

At the time of the battle, 190s were in use on the eastern front, but in another sector. That is just a historical administrative accident, I think: the original allocations of aircraft types between JG3 and JG54 could have been reversed, in which case there would have been many 190s over Stalingrad and rather few 109s.  (Which would have made zero difference to the outcome of the battle IMHO, but that is another matter).

 

(190 Jabos may also have crept into the real world time frame at the end of the battle during the German counter offensive - not sure about that). 

 

In contrast, I believe that the idea of sending Spitfire MK IXs to the USSR in the Stalingrad was never a realistic possibility, given that the Mk Vs had been taking a thrashing and nothing else was ready. By the Kuban time frame I think the Mk IX could have been sent, but the Soviets no longer wanted or needed British aircraft.

Edited September 19, 2016 by unreasonable

[707shap_Srbin]

Spitfire Mk.V, supplied to USSR:

 

BL series - 21.

BM series - 13

EN series - 11

EP series - 87

 

+ some minor series, 1-2 aircrafts per serie.

 

Could someone please tell, what engines were on Spitfire of mentioned above series? EP serie had Merlin '46.

[Bullets]

How many Mk.IX's were at Kuban??  Surely this would be a better more competitive addition than the Mk.Vb?? 

[Trooper117]

I think the Mk IX's were sent for PVO use and not really used in Frontal aviation due to their high altitude interception roles, but not in the Kuban time frame...

[707shap_Srbin]

How many Mk.IX's were at Kuban??    

 

0. Zero.

 

57giap and 812ifp had only Spitfire Mk.V's. 57giap was in action in spring 1943, 812iap was in action in same area (Kuban) in summer 1943.

 

After that, all Mk.V's were sent to PVO, (air defence of sities), as Spitfires were agreed as awfull frontline-fighter.

[unreasonable]

Whoops! amend my post above which comes from posting before checking sources.

 

According to Gordon "Soviet Air Power" 1,185 Spitfire MkIXs made it to the USSR, the first arriving in February 1944, through into 1945, being ferried up through Iran. (Clearly the British needed as much as possible of their good stuff).

 

Assigned to PVO units there is no record of them ever being engaged or being written off in 1944, so most probably never saw combat.

[MiloMorai]

Spitfire Mk.V, supplied to USSR:

 

BL series - 21.

BM series - 13

EN series - 11

EP series - 87

 

+ some minor series, 1-2 aircrafts per serie.

 

Could someone please tell, what engines were on Spitfire of mentioned above series? EP serie had Merlin '46.

If you look here, http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/home.html you should be able to find out.

Edited September 19, 2016 by MiloMorai

[707shap_Srbin]

If you look here, http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/home.html you should be able to find out.

 

Yeah, googled already. Ok. All Mk.V's, shipped to USSR:

 

Spitfire Mk.V with Merlin 45 - 62 aircrafts.

Spitfire Mk.V with Merlin 45M - 1 aircraft.

Spitfire Mk.V with Merlin 46 - 88 aircrafts.

 

Still, 57giap, fought in spring 1943 in Kuban area, had, as I mentioned above, almost all assigned aircrafts from EP-series, wich had Merlin 46.

[MiloMorai]

On avgas

 

"If 1.269 million tons of aviation gasoline had been produced in the Soviet Union in 1941, only 912,000 tons were produced in 1942. It should also be noted that Soviet refineries were producing avgas with low octane numbers. In 1941, an overwhelming amount (75%) of the aviation gasoline produced had octane numbers from 70 to 74, the ones needed by obsolete types of domestically-produced aircraft.

 

In response to a request from the Soviet government, the Allies increased deliveries of high-octane aviation gasolines and lubricants. According to the official data for the years of the Soviet Union's Great Patriotic War, 2,159,336 short tons of petroleum products were delivered from the United States alone under Lend-Lease and commercial contracts. The amount of high-octane aviation gasoline, converted into the metric system, was 1,197,587 tons, including 558,428 tons with octane numbers above 99. One other important item: in the nomenclature of American oil deliveries, the Soviet Union also received 267,088 tons of automotive gasoline; 16,870 tons of kerosene; 287,262 tons of fuel oil; 111,676 tons of lubricants; 5,769 tons of paraffin; 4,788 tons of chemical additives; and 999 tons of other products."

 

http://www.oilru.com/or/47/1006/

 

 

[TP_Jacko]

Funny i am just happy to see a spitfire in the game

[Bullets]

Funny i am just happy to see a spitfire in the game

I am very very happy to see a spit as well I just want the best spit possible hehe   

[LukeFF]

 

 

(190 Jabos may also have crept into the real world time frame at the end of the battle during the German counter offensive - not sure about that). 

 

They were far, far away from Stalingrad.