MC 202 - i like it

[rolikiraly]

You can fly boosted at 80% throttle for around 8-9 minutes. You can also fly boosted at continuous throttle (69%?) for .. i had it for 30 mins or even more.. no problems.  But anything above those two introduces too many variables to get a consistent reading. Boost at 100% throttle will give you about 1.5 mins max, so just be aware of that.

 

[...]

 

Thanks for the answer. I actually tested it again, i used 81% throttle (couldn't get exactly 80 with mouse wheel) + boost (near SL, don't know if it matters), and it was 'damaged' after 4 min. And it wasn't anywhere close to the 500 km/h figure that the official specs suggest for 5 min setting.

 

What am I doing wrong?

[=ARTOA=Bombenleger]

The speeds in the specs are all achieved with closed radiators and a perfectly trimmed aircraft.
Also you should get to maximum speed on combat power with open rads, then close rads and stay in combat power until speed has stabilised and only then go into boosted mode as long as the engine can handle it.
Then you will have your maximum speed in IAS, but all the speeds in the specs are in TAS so keep that in mind.

@moosya
Having boost activated and throttle below 75% will do nothing, as the only thing boost does is allow the manifold pressure to go above 1.25 ata / 75% throttle lever.
You can however enter boosted mode without pressing the boost mode by diving very fast, the prop will fail to keep the desired rpm eventualy and go into the boost region. (don't know the exact rpm right now)

Edited December 27, 2017 by =ARTOA=Bombenleger

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

I could manage around 494 km/h with auto level, boost mode 2400 RPM and 1.35 ata (80% throttle), with 35% water radiator and 30% oil radiator. Boost increases the rpm governor setting from 2200 to 2400 besides allowing higher MP pressure.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I could manage around 494 km/h with auto level, boost mode 2400 RPM and 1.35 ata (80% throttle), with 35% water radiator and 30% oil radiator. Boost increases the rpm governor setting from 2200 to 2400 besides allowing higher MP pressure.

at higher Altitude. 

 

The Boost is meant to allow for higher Boost Pressures above 3.5k. Below that the Performance gain is rather small. 

 

And it's continuous, uses more fuel however. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[rolikiraly]

Thanks for the input everyone! I will do some more tests as well tomorrow to find out if i can squeeze out a bit more speed.

 

 

I could manage around 494 km/h with auto level, boost mode 2400 RPM and 1.35 ata (80% throttle), with 35% water radiator and 30% oil radiator. Boost increases the rpm governor setting from 2200 to 2400 besides allowing higher MP pressure.

 

For how long could you maintain this setting? This is the question i'm actually most interested in.

Also closed radiators are better for speed, but then again, for how long can you use 35/30% on summer map without overheating?? I would guess not for very long.

 

Otherwise this plane feels nice (and it's obviously beautiful) but objectively, the only thing that i've found so far in which it's actually better than the Messer is high speed handling (and maybe roll rate in general)

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I can normally get 500 in Autumn. 25/25 Rads and Stab full Nose Down. Stabs have a very big influence on Top Speed. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[Guest deleted@134347]

boost below 75% does plenty. It allows for quick vertical chases without 2-3 second lag for the rpms to kick in, i.e. the rpm's are set to 2500 at that point so it keeps climbing very nicely.

 

my comments though are limited to the dog fights (Berloga), I need to test it out in longer missions. I'm pretty sure your hints will be valuable there.

 

@moosya
Having boost activated and throttle below 75% will do nothing, as the only thing boost does is allow the manifold pressure to go above 1.25 ata / 75% throttle lever.
You can however enter boosted mode without pressing the boost mode by diving very fast, the prop will fail to keep the desired rpm eventualy and go into the boost region. (don't know the exact rpm right now)

[Guest deleted@134347]

I think you didn't have rads open wide enough so it's the temperature that killed the engine. Next time you do it get them fully open to 100%.

 

but again, as others have said, this will not magically get you to the 500kph. For that you need to be properly trimmed (bubble in the center and negative stab to nose down) and have the rads on 10-20% (I think, but it depends on the map).

 

I personally don't get concerned with setting the speed records, I just fly the darn thing and try to shoot down some opponents.

 

Thanks for the answer. I actually tested it again, i used 81% throttle (couldn't get exactly 80 with mouse wheel) + boost (near SL, don't know if it matters), and it was 'damaged' after 4 min. And it wasn't anywhere close to the 500 km/h figure that the official specs suggest for 5 min setting.

 

What am I doing wrong?

[=ARTOA=Bombenleger]

rolikiraly it sounds like you are not actualy interested in the top speed, but in getting most out of the aircraft in a dogfight.
For that i would recommend setting oil cooler to 25% and water to 70% for climbing and oil/water 20%/60% for level flight, depending on altitude you can close the rads even more. (for flying at 1.25 ata that is)
I personaly use the boost in 109s/202s only very rarely and in short bursts to get some extra acceleration.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

For how long could you maintain this setting? This is the question i'm actually most interested in.

Also closed radiators are better for speed, but then again, for how long can you use 35/30% on summer map without overheating?? I would guess not for very long.

 

I was in Autumn, the standard environment for performance stats, in Summer it will be slower and in Winter it will be faster.

 

In Autumn with 35% / 30% you won't overheat, it will mantain just in the limit.

 

It lasted around 6 mins before engine damage, I lowered the rads to 25/25 and didn't overheat before getting damage by timer, I was in autolevel at 495 km/h. My previous test was with time compression 8x for quite a while (with "unbreakable" option enabled so the engine doesn't die because of the timer limit). At sea level in 15°C, the radiator setting that will keep the temperature just under overheat is 35/30, however if you start with a cool engine and have 25/25 it will take a longer time to overheat than it does take the engine to take damage from the time limit, so unless coming from a low speed dogfight with a hot engine, you can go with 25/25.

[ACG_KaiLae]

Problem I have is confusion over what the stat page says, and what this aircraft has. Stat page says combat 5 min, boosted 1 min. Problem is that this aircraft has an emergency mode, so either something was missed or mislabeled. This is also confusing because it's a DB601 engine which on any german aircraft has a 30 minute combat timer. 

[StaB/Tomio_VR***]

For everyone who wants to use the Macchi and combat for a LONG time without worrying with the engine, the best is to learn to fight with 70% + BOOST. It shows Combat mode in technochat but it's still continuous as this setting runs for 75mn. If you put 71% + BOOST, it drops to around 35 mn...

 

Using 1.3 ata or more doesn't bring too many extra speed and kills the engine very quickly

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Thanks @64sTomio

 

Btw, what is mn, milli-nano? The proper SI term is min for minute.

[rolikiraly]

[...]

 

I personally don't get concerned with setting the speed records, I just fly the darn thing and try to shoot down some opponents.

 

I agree, but sometimes it's useful to know your limits if things get uncomfortable 

 

I was in Autumn, the standard environment for performance stats, in Summer it will be slower and in Winter it will be faster.

 

In Autumn with 35% / 30% you won't overheat, it will mantain just in the limit.

 

It lasted around 6 mins before engine damage, I lowered the rads to 25/25 and didn't overheat before getting damage by timer, I was in autolevel at 495 km/h. My previous test was with time compression 8x for quite a while (with "unbreakable" option enabled so the engine doesn't die because of the timer limit). At sea level in 15°C, the radiator setting that will keep the temperature just under overheat is 35/30, however if you start with a cool engine and have 25/25 it will take a longer time to overheat than it does take the engine to take damage from the time limit, so unless coming from a low speed dogfight with a hot engine, you can go with 25/25.

 

Ok, thanks for elaborating on this. For some reason i thought the official specifications are for summer conditions. So far on summer map it seemed to me that i had to open rads pretty wide but i will try it on the autumn map.

 

Problem I have is confusion over what the stat page says, and what this aircraft has. Stat page says combat 5 min, boosted 1 min. Problem is that this aircraft has an emergency mode, so either something was missed or mislabeled. This is also confusing because it's a DB601 engine which on any german aircraft has a 30 minute combat timer. 

 

I think it's worded in an unfortunate way, the 1 min 'boosted' setting actually refers to boost + 100% throttle (emergency) if i'm not mistaken

[Guest deleted@83466]

This thread inspired me to spend some time in the 202 for the last two days.

 

I spent some time offline of course working out radiator settings, and power settings and such things.  When I got online with it, I love the sound of the Breda's but I found that time and time again, I was seeming to shoot the piss out of somebody, but just not getting the kill.  I got a lot of assists!  But it was a heck of a lot of fun to fly.  Rear visibility is the pits. 

[rolikiraly]

Well, it is possible to reach 500 km/h with 81% + boost and ideal settings at SL, when flying on the autumn map.

 

 

This thread inspired me to spend some time in the 202 for the last two days.

 

I spent some time offline of course working out radiator settings, and power settings and such things.  When I got online with it, I love the sound of the Breda's but I found that time and time again, I was seeming to shoot the piss out of somebody, but just not getting the kill.  I got a lot of assists!  But it was a heck of a lot of fun to fly.  Rear visibility is the pits. 

 

Speaking of Bredas, do you guys prefer to fly with the wing 7,7s or without them? Honestly i haven't noticed too much difference so far between the two versions, neither in performance nor in destructive power. But i will definitely need more tests to make a conclusion.

Edited December 29, 2017 by rolikiraly

[ShamrockOneFive]

Psychologically I think I'm doing more with the wing 7.7s fitted but realistically I know they are pea shooters and they don't do very much on their own. Even the 12.7mm Breda's aren't that powerful although thankfully the new IL-2's damage model makes it so that they do something (unlike IL-2: 1946).

[Guest deleted@134347]

definitely with both 7.7 and 12.7. As far as the damage you can't cause too much of it if shooting from the dead 6, unless you unload 100 rounds. Deflection shooting with precise engine hits will yield much better results. But that takes aircraft control practice and lots of it. That's really the reason I love flying it. To get a kill with the 50 cals you must get on someone's six and stay there for some time whilst trying to land the engine hits..

 

Speaking of Bredas, do you guys prefer to fly with the wing 7,7s or without them? Honestly i haven't noticed too much difference so far between the two versions, neither in performance nor in destructive power. But i will definitely need more tests to make a conclusion.

Edited December 29, 2017 by moosya

[ACG_KaiLae]

It's not like you're giving much up for the 7.7's, and it's better than only 2 50's, so why not? Plus, this is the most common configuration of the plane anyway.

[TRRA15]

definitely with both 7.7 and 12.7. As far as the damage you can't cause too much of it if shooting from the dead 6, unless you unload 100 rounds. Deflection shooting with precise engine hits will yield much better results. But that takes aircraft control practice and lots of it. That's really the reason I love flying it. To get a kill with the 50 cals you must get on someone's six and stay there for some time whilst trying to land the engine hits..

Very salient point. They work well together and with good aiming. My own experiences mirror this, though I might add that I've found even from a dead six position ( where one can get a full second or so on target and/or a lack of rear gunners allow this ) they are effective when you hit at good convergence. The key is convergence: when they all hit one spot, especially at low-mid deflection and....at a range where the rounds still retain good ballistics...they set fires, cause big leaks, damage engines and subsystems, and kill pilots. Could be that the 7.7s pre-perforate the area and then the larger 12.7 rounds, even with their meager HE capability, tear away larger chunks from areas damaged by the smaller rounds.

Edited December 30, 2017 by TRRA15

[NETSCAPE]

The MC 202 and FW 190s are the only fighters I currently fly. I just don't like the overall feel and characteristics of the 109's at all. (not that we need anymore 109 pilots anyways right?)

 

I try to have more energy than my opponent and "pick my battles" so to speak. But when the going gets rough (and you lose energy and fight on the deck like a noob) you can turn fight decently on the with the 202 and get those high deflection shots which WILL down enemy planes perfectly fine despite all the BREDA naysayers in the world! 

 

I don't know if the Russians ever think "what the..." but when I can roll my 202 like a beast and Split S or turn hard instantly it must be surprising them? probably not. But I feel like a badass. haha. Super Ninja Italian Bro. 

On yeah and one more thing... WHERE IS THE FUEL GAUGE ON THIS SUCKER???

 

jk. 

[Trinkof]

The MC 202 and FW 190s are the only fighters I currently fly. I just don't like the overall feel and characteristics of the 109's at all. (not that we need anymore 109 pilots anyways right?)

 

I try to have more energy than my opponent and "pick my battles" so to speak. But when the going gets rough (and you lose energy and fight on the deck like a noob) you can turn fight decently on the with the 202 and get those high deflection shots which WILL down enemy planes perfectly fine despite all the BREDA naysayers in the world!

 

I don't know if the Russians ever think "what the..." but when I can roll my 202 like a beast and Split S or turn hard instantly it must be surprising them? probably not. But I feel like a badass. haha. Super Ninja Italian Bro.

 

On yeah and one more thing... WHERE IS THE FUEL GAUGE ON THIS SUCKER???

 

jk.

Right, long stick all along the pit, just below the glass !

 

S!

[rolikiraly]

The MC 202 and FW 190s are the only fighters I currently fly. I just don't like the overall feel and characteristics of the 109's at all. (not that we need anymore 109 pilots anyways right?)

 

I try to have more energy than my opponent and "pick my battles" so to speak. But when the going gets rough (and you lose energy and fight on the deck like a noob) you can turn fight decently on the with the 202 and get those high deflection shots which WILL down enemy planes perfectly fine despite all the BREDA naysayers in the world! 

 

I don't know if the Russians ever think "what the..." but when I can roll my 202 like a beast and Split S or turn hard instantly it must be surprising them? probably not. But I feel like a badass. haha. Super Ninja Italian Bro. 

On yeah and one more thing... WHERE IS THE FUEL GAUGE ON THIS SUCKER???

 

jk. 

 

(The fuel gauge is actually easier to see and read precisely than on the Bf-109F-4, in my opinion. Other stuff in the cockpit, not so much.)

 

Otherwise your post is a bit surprising to me, as i'm struggling with low speed turnfighting on this plane (yes, even against certain AI planes). After the 109 it feels hard to perform a continuous low speed turn, one little mistake and it stalls.

With higher speeds i have to be careful as well but maneuverability seems to be better overall.

 

I've also seen a recommendation to use a good amount of flaps for improved low speed handling, but for me, it doesn't seem to make it any better so far.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I find the Mc.202 the most manouverable Axis Fighter. It outturns I-16s quite easily. 

[rolikiraly]

I find the Mc.202 the most manouverable Axis Fighter. It outturns I-16s quite easily.

 

Well, I guess i just have a lot to learn 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

They are equally bitchy, but the 202 not only turns well, but climbs better than the E-7, you'll always end up on top. 

[Guest deleted@134347]

They are equally bitchy, but the 202 not only turns well, but climbs better than the E-7, you'll always end up on top. 

 

it climbs a little better than e7 if it has enough energy, but it must be over 400kph and it won't last long. If you're in 250-300 zone it climbs very badly. E7 will out perform it in everything else and is much better at energy retention. Mc202 needs some very careful flying to keep its energy, however it will out stall anything out there and if the opponent is not watching his energy the mc202 will always end up on his 6 and then it's game over.

[Solmyr]

Having boost activated and throttle below 75% will do nothing, as the only thing boost does is allow the manifold pressure to go above 1.25 ata / 75% throttle lever.

 

 

I don't get your point, as personally I clearly hear the RPM increase even at a constant 65% gaz setting or so, even at 60%, when switching boost on. I even "feel" the torque increase.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Solmyr

[KoN_]

Might pick this up in sale .

Might pick this up in sale .

[Herne]

it climbs a little better than e7 if it has enough energy, but it must be over 400kph and it won't last long. If you're in 250-300 zone it climbs very badly. E7 will out perform it in everything else and is much better at energy retention. Mc202 needs some very careful flying to keep its energy, however it will out stall anything out there and if the opponent is not watching his energy the mc202 will always end up on his 6 and then it's game over.

 

I love the superior roll rate, also I have a tendency after flying allied planes for a while, and switching to LW, to pile drive my early 109's into the ground by diving too fast that the controls lock up.