MC 202 - i like it

[Irgendjemand]

Had some pretty nice sorties with it yesterday.

Now Id love to be able to fly it to its limits (max. times for Combat and emergencypowers - radiatorsettings for summer and winterconditions etc.) but cant find a thread that covers the 202.

Could anyone please point me into the right direction?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

 

[Trinkof]

Ata limit are marked on the gauges : first white mark near 1.2 ata is the max continuous pressure. Between this mark and the red one near 1.4 ata is the combat setting 30 minutes. After the red is emergency ,1 minutes time limit

 

The boost is raising rpm from 2200 to 2400. Add a good "boost" in climbing maneuver even low, but basically is intended to be used at high altitude, to be able to to go into combat mode when atmospheric pressure is too low : boost time allowed 5 minutes.

 

Regarding radiators it is quite a cold aircraft exept when above 1.2 ata and when in boost (especially when boosting).

 

I am at work, will post a link with cockpit description and settings when at home if no one already did .

 

Agreed this aircraft is fantastic to fly, one of my favorite, very good balance of control speed climb rate turn rate and roll rate. But I stil struggle to shoot down quickly an opponent as the weapons are really weak.

 

S!

Edited September 15, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Ata limit are marked on the gauges : first white mark near 1.2 ata is the max continuous pressure. Between this mark and the red one near 1.4 ata is the combat setting 30 minutes. After the red is emergency ,1 minutes time limit

 

The boost is raising rpm from 2200 to 2400. Add a good "boost" in climbing maneuver even low, but basically is intended to be used at high altitude, to be able to to go into combat mode when atmospheric pressure is too low : boost time allowed 5 minutes.

 

Regarding radiators it is quite a cold aircraft exept when above 1.2 ata and when in boost (especially when boosting).

 

I am at work, will post a link with cockpit description and settings when at home if no one already did .

 

Agreed this aircraft is fantastic to fly, one of my favorite, very good balance of control speed climb rate turn rate and roll rate. But I stil struggle to shoot down quickly an opponent as the weapons are really weak.

 

S!

In my experience 1.25ata and 2400rpm can be used at least 10 or more minutes. 

 

Settings are more like 1.25 cont, 1.35 Combat and 1.45 Take-Off

Edited September 15, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Trinkof]

In my experience 1.25ata and 2400rpm can be used at least 10 or more minutes.

 

Settings are more like 1.25 cont, 1.35 Combat and 1.45 Take-Off

Yeah for the numbers I was more refering to the mark on the ATA gauge, did not remembered the exact numbers, thank you for clarifying.

 

As for the boost, I used it a lot longer before (I have been away for several months) and now I usually kill my engine a lot more when pushing it above 5 minutes. I will dig in patch note to see if it has been changed.

Edited September 15, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[Irgendjemand]

Thanks guys. I noticed the markings on pressuregauge. During my last sorties (all winter) i found that the tech chat doesnt even go beyond "contiuous" if you dont activate boost. So during those sorties i flew with boost right from takeoff.

 

During flight i kept the temp gauges observed and realized that if at all only the Water (A) gauge starts rising. Oil was very low most of the time, even with almost closed rad.

 

I really like that above like 4k height or so you seemingly dont have to watchout for anthing regarding engine babying since the ATA stays below the white combatpowermarking all the time.

 

I flew with the 7.62s in the wings and managed to shoot down 4 PE2s (more than one sortie). So sure its no 20mm but still does good damage.

 

I also like that this plane doesnt fall apart if it gets coughed at like all the BF109s do.

 

Do you know how many bullets each gun has in the 202 and what bursttime this comes down to?

Edited September 15, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Hey,

 

Funny you are making this thread because I've started to fly the Macchi 2 days ago and I also like it a lot.

Might become one of my favs once I manage to lead accurately with the Bredas, and get used to the yaw instability at low speed. 

 

Bullets are 400rpg for the 12.7mm and 500rpg for the 7.7

you have ammo counters on the low part of the instrument panel, behind the flight stick

Don't know about firing time but it is quick and easy to measure it offline. 

 

For the engine stuff, I believe the 5min limit is for the max combat power, so around 2400rpm and 1.39/1.40 ATA (at the edge of the emergency power so 89% throttle if I'm correct)

If you stick to 1.30/1.35 ATA it should be able to run for a longer time but I haven't done any complete testings at the moment. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by F/JG300_Gruber

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Just tried it out: Boosted (2400rpm) and 1.25ata can be used continuously, for 30+ Minutes (Ran out of Fuel)

Will do 485kph at Ground Level with that. 

[Trinkof]

Just tried it out: Boosted (2400rpm) and 1.25ata can be used continuously, for 30+ Minutes (Ran out of Fuel)

Will do 485kph at Ground Level with that.

Things I remember is combat power 2200 rpm 30 minutes ... But combat power @2400 rpm is 5 or 10 minutes. Using both boost and combat lowers the time limit.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Things I remember is combat power 2200 rpm 30 minutes ... But combat power @2400 rpm is 5 or 10 minutes. Using both boost and combat lowers the time limit.

 

Combat power doesn't mean much if you want to be picky on your engine time.

Boosted at 2400rpm, the combat mode runs from 1.28ATA to 1.4ATA, but the 5 min limit is only true at 1.4ATA

Just tested that and at 1.30ATA 2400rpm it's 35min until the damaged engine message shows up.

 

Same goes for the other aircrafts.

for example, my own testings with the Bf110, all with emergency power (Auto RPM):

1.30 ATA : 4min 40" max

1.32 ATA : 2min 45" max

1.34 ATA : 1min 50" max

1.36 ATA : 1min 25" max

1.38 ATA : 1min 10" max

1.40 ATA : 1min max

 

 

Tested the Bredas for firing time, and it gives me a solid 34 seconds of fire for both the 7.7 and 12.7 guns (runs out of ammo at 1s interval)

Edited September 15, 2016 by F/JG300_Gruber

[Irgendjemand]

Awesome. Thanks for all info!

Gonna hop into the crate today again and see how many days it tankes until i manage to keep the engine alive as a standard condition:) Right now its more like 2 sorties i land with damaged engine and one with black smoke:)

[No601_Swallow]

Yes, indeed. It's got all of the 109's BMW goodness in terms of easy engine management and ooomph, while giving you something different. I find it very stable when at high speed, but if you yank that stick too much, she really will bite you. And you can hum Puccini while you're climbing to altitude!

[Saurer]

 

Do you know how many bullets each gun has in the 202 and what bursttime this comes down to?

 

The 202 has also ammo counters for all its guns, they are under the main instrument panel

[Trinkof]

 

Combat power doesn't mean much if you want to be picky on your engine time.

Boosted at 2400rpm, the combat mode runs from 1.28ATA to 1.4ATA, but the 5 min limit is only true at 1.4ATA

Just tested that and at 1.30ATA 2400rpm it's 35min until the damaged engine message shows up.

 

Same goes for the other aircrafts.

for example, my own testings with the Bf110, all with emergency power (Auto RPM):

1.30 ATA : 4min 40" max

1.32 ATA : 2min 45" max

1.34 ATA : 1min 50" max

1.36 ATA : 1min 25" max

1.38 ATA : 1min 10" max

1.40 ATA : 1min max

 

 

Tested the Bredas for firing time, and it gives me a solid 34 seconds of fire for both the 7.7 and 12.7 guns (runs out of ammo at 1s interval)

Thanks for the tests and data !

 

S!

[HR_Tumu]

Mc 202 its a superplane. I like a lot.

[Trinkof]

Eric Brown's favorite !  

[SCG_Tzigy]

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

202 is a Yak killer 

[KpaxBos]

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/23922-bom-bos-aircraft-operation-tables/

[PapaFlo]

She is definitely a beautiful plane:

 

 

 

Flo

 

[F/JG300_Gruber]

202 is a Yak killer 

 

 

Well, you'll have to show me how, because for me it still ends up badly almost everytime. Unless there's a secret device to disable their flaps at a distance...

Edited September 15, 2016 by F/JG300_Gruber

[Irgendjemand]

Ive been very successfull again yesterday.

The fact that its much slower than the 109s means you have a much bigger timeframe getting shots in. When I attack in a 109 or 190 I always try to stay very fast to extend after attack. This way the firingwindow is extremely narrow. Not so with the 202. Close in to firingrange, slow down. Pepper unitl they fall apart. Together with the 7.7s and the overall quite high cadence (right word?) its a shredder. Works almost as good as the 109 E7 when it comes to TnB with the diffrence that the ammo lasts much longer.

 

Only thing i dont like so far is the permanent stalling once your speed is very slow. So trying to get and stay on the tail of an IL2 without tailgunner for example at extremely slow speed works but is extremely frustrating since it stalls - quite easy recoverable - but VERY often. Anyone else noticed that?

Edited September 16, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Trinkof]

Ive been very successfull again yesterday.

The fact that its much slower than the 109s means you have a much bigger timeframe getting shots in. When I attack in a 109 or 190 I always try to stay very fast to extend after attack. This way the firingwindow is extremely narrow. Not so with the 202. Close in to firingrange, slow down. Pepper unitl they fall apart. Together with the 7.7s and the overall quite high cadence (right word?) its a shredder. Works almost as good as the 109 E7 when it comes to TnB with the diffrence that the ammo lasts much longer.

 

Only thing i dont like so far is the permanent stalling once your speed is very slow. So trying to get and stay on the tail of an IL2 without tailgunner for example at extremely slow speed works but is extremely frustrating since it stalls - quite easy recoverable - but VERY often. Anyone else noticed that?

Yes, quite noticeable, but seems ok since it does not has slats.

 

Stick extension works very well to counter this .

 

About the shredder , I find it good to shoot in the 6 of the opponent, but without explosive ammo I really struggle to be efficient with deflections.

Edited September 16, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[150GCT_Veltro]

12,7 is explosive ammo.

[Irgendjemand]

I have a Schreinerschmid KG20. So the extension isnt the problem.

Do other planes without slats also have this "tiny stalls" at lower speeds?

I couldnt see this on any slow flying other aircraft up until today.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Dunno, but it's true that it behaves a bit funky at low speed
Very unstable on the yaw axis, this makes the nose strongly wobble left and right with any vigorous input on the rudder or ailerons.
I think that may cause one wing to stall briefly until the nose switches direction and get the lift back.

I don't remember other planes clearly doing that, but you may want to check the i16, I've only done a couple flights with it but from memory its low speed handling was special as well.

Edited September 16, 2016 by F/JG300_Gruber

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Yeah, I had this issue in one of the duels 2-3 days ago when I was doing a split-s at few hundred meters and when I was pulling out my speed was still decreasing, yet aircraft continuously dropped on its right wing (only to correct itself a moment later so that I regained control) 5-7 times and I eventually hit the ground. I tried to release the stick but its not easy when you try to avoid ground either. I've noticed that tendency to drop on its right wing every time you maneuver at high AoA, but this was actually quite surprising since speed was increasing in my pull out and still aircraft was dropping on its right wing again and again. I think I should fly it more to learn how to better control this machine. 

[F/JG300_Gruber]

12,7 is explosive ammo.

Indeed. But 0.8g of explosive compound vs the 18g of the minengeschoss, is a world of a difference when you are used to the MG151/20 

 

BTW what is the typical belt composition on the 12.7 ? I heard it was mixed with AP rounds but in what proportion ?

Yeah, I had this issue in one of the duels 2-3 days ago when I was doing a split-s at few hundred meters and when I was pulling out my speed was still decreasing, yet aircraft continuously dropped on its right wing (only to correct itself a moment later so that I regained control) 5-7 times and I eventually hit the ground. I tried to release the stick but its not easy when you try to avoid ground either. I've noticed that tendency to drop on its right wing every time you maneuver at high AoA, but this was actually quite surprising since speed was increasing in my pull out and still aircraft was dropping on its right wing again and again. I think I should fly it more to learn how to better control this machine. 

 

One good thing is that it always drop on it's right wing !

As the left wing is a bit longer, the opposite would have been suspicious 

 

As you, I'm going to spend some time to learn this machine, I think like all the other planes, it requires to get used to it's characteristics to really shine.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

One question on the 12.7mm

 

The game stat card says 400 rounds per gun, the ammo counters says 475. Which one shall I believe ?

[=CFC=Conky]

One question on the 12.7mm

 

The game stat card says 400 rounds per gun, the ammo counters says 475. Which one shall I believe ?

 

 

Assume you've only got 400rpg, then those extra 75 rounds are a bonus! 

 

You can also fire the guns while looking at the counter and see if it jumps from 475 to somewhere less than 400. Personally, I only use the counters as a rough guide. when they get to 100, it's time to start thinking about my exit strategy.

 

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

[=CFC=Conky]

Hello all,

 

I've been flying the 202 in the BoM sp campaign and it's quite a good aircraft. The 12.7's are plenty strong enough to take out IL2's .

Good hunting,

=CFC=Conky

[Fern]

This thing is horrible. The stall/spin is almost as bad as the FW190.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Usually when you go to flight school, one of the first basic lessons is that you need to be smooth using flight controls.

 

It is the same principle on BoS. All my friends that I have seen flying any sim they usually over steer the joystick when things get hot in game while they make funny things with their mouth and tongue lol

 

Try to film yourself with your cell phone when you are dogfighting and you will see what I am talking about. Don't forget to share with us later

Edited September 23, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[F/JG300_Gruber]

This thing is horrible. The stall/spin is almost as bad as the FW190.

 

Yep but it takes a lot of effort to force it into a spin.

It is forgiving enough to get into stall fighting competition with Migs and Lavotchkins.

 

Doesn't work with Yaks though.

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Ma favorite thing with the MC.202 is the gun sounds

[rolikiraly]

OK guys thank you very much for all the useful information! I'll try to resurrect this topic for a little bit, as i just started flying this plane.

 

I have a few questions as my experiences so far are very different compared to some of these figures you provided. 

 

Basically it feels like the higher rpm and higher manifold pressure settings are almost useless as i get warnings and also actual engine damage very fast.

Official specification says 2400 RPM (boost) + 1,35 ata for 5 mins? No way i could fly that much on those settings without engine damage. 

 

Gruber posted that 5 min is actually for boost + 1,39..1,40 ata. Also 1,3 ata for 30 mins? Somebody said it will do 485 km/h on SL with just 1,25 ata. In my own tests i just couldn't reach 500 km/h at all (using any power setting, SL) without getting the warnings/damage. The climbrate that i could achieve safely is somewhat disappointing as well, it took over  ~2min 10s to get to 3000m, starting from 500m and 400 km/h IAS, compared to the 1min40s i achieved with the 109f-4 (same season, ~same fuel). All of these are with minimal armament and summer map btw. Were your tests also done on the summer map?

 

To be honest the Macchi seems very nice to fly but its performance is a bit disappointing with this fragile engine. Actually i'm almost sure (and i hope) i'm missing a little detail in engine management. Do you have any tips on this?

[Guest deleted@134347]

You can fly boosted at 80% throttle for around 8-9 minutes. You can also fly boosted at continuous throttle (69%?) for .. i had it for 30 mins or even more.. no problems.  But anything above those two introduces too many variables to get a consistent reading. Boost at 100% throttle will give you about 1.5 mins max, so just be aware of that.

 

As far as the rads - keep them at 15-20% or lower (in winter maps). Watch the air temps and open up the rads when it's about ~100C, again, may be up to 50%. 

 

The plane itself sheds energy like crazy if you introduce snap rolls, etc. It's useful if you got someone on your six 30 meters away. Otherwise watch your speed, stay at 400kph and you'll get plenty of maneuverability out of it. Any urgent climbs - definitely use boost for those as it keeps the rpm's high, without it the rpms drop like crazy.

 

OK guys thank you very much for all the useful information! I'll try to resurrect this topic for a little bit, as i just started flying this plane.

 

I have a few questions as my experiences so far are very different compared to some of these figures you provided. 

 

Basically it feels like the higher rpm and higher manifold pressure settings are almost useless as i get warnings and also actual engine damage very fast.

Official specification says 2400 RPM (boost) + 1,35 ata for 5 mins? No way i could fly that much on those settings without engine damage. 

 

Gruber posted that 5 min is actually for boost + 1,39..1,40 ata. Also 1,3 ata for 30 mins? Somebody said it will do 485 km/h on SL with just 1,25 ata. In my own tests i just couldn't reach 500 km/h at all (using any power setting, SL) without getting the warnings/damage. The climbrate that i could achieve safely is somewhat disappointing as well, it took over  ~2min 10s to get to 3000m, starting from 500m and 400 km/h IAS, compared to the 1min40s i achieved with the 109f-4 (same season, ~same fuel). All of these are with minimal armament and summer map btw. Were your tests also done on the summer map?

 

To be honest the Macchi seems very nice to fly but its performance is a bit disappointing with this fragile engine. Actually i'm almost sure (and i hope) i'm missing a little detail in engine management. Do you have any tips on this?

[Thad]

She is definitely a beautiful plane:

 

 

 

Flo

 

Yes, it is without a doubt one of the best looking craft.

[Guest deleted@134347]

here it is in DC Air & Space museum... with the African camo...

 

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/aeronautica-macchi-c202-folgore

[Boaty-McBoatface]

Eric Brown's favorite !

Do you happen to have a quote or excerpt on hand from Eric about this machine? Would like to see what he had to say.

 

Regards

[Jade_Monkey]

I've said it many times but i would love to see the Serie 5 italian planes in IL2 one day. They would be a dream come true after the P47.

 

The Centauro, Sagittario, and the Veltro by Fiat, Reggiane, and Macchi respectively, share very similar looks.