Ok, sell me the Pacific theatre planes.

[LLv24_Zami]

By the same token there are lots of virtual-Germans out there who take it as a personal affront if they are required to fly anything with a star or a roundel on it. 

Yes, same goes for all sides.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I guess all we need now is a dedicated kamikaze group to refuse anything less than suicidal missions   

[Feathered_IV]

I guess all we need now is a dedicated kamikaze group to refuse anything less than suicidal missions   

 

Hey!! I always land like that! 

[BlitzPig_EL]

One of the things I learned was just how many people were fighting a 70 year old war from infront of their computer screen.

 

I think it's weird. I like to get into things but geeze... I fly everything on every side because I'm here for the awesome flight simulation.

 

Also wanted to say that while many players will only fly the "best plane available" (usually its the 109 or the La-7 back in the day) there are many of us out there who are very happy to be one of the  "crap plane" fliers. I went into some hilarious dogfight servers and did reasonably well flying some of the lowest powered aircraft available. It started because I was sick of seeing the same two or three aircraft but it grew into a challenge. Sure you can score 5 kills with the uber plane but score just 1 kill with the crap plane or even just survive. Also you could always take out the wonky choices like fighting a Bf109K-4 in a I-153P. It was doable if he was an arcade dogfighter and let his speed drop off. Or surprising a La-7 while flying a Ki-43-Ib. Honestly the more disparate these dogfight server plane matchups were, the better! :D

 

In the old sim I have shot down an Me 262 with the Brewster Buffalo, an La 7 with a CR 42, several P40s with a Val, P 51s with a Ki-43, and many late model 109s with a P40.   Great fun.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

In the old sim I have shot down an Me 262 with the Brewster Buffalo, an La 7 with a CR 42, several P40s with a Val, P 51s with a Ki-43, and many late model 109s with a P40.   Great fun.

 

Nice!  I remember my first online player kill, it was a Bf-109F with a RAF Tomahawk. My record is an F-86 Sabre (HSFX) with a Spitfire mk I but it wasn't serious combat   One of my favourite maps was a Burma scenario in which I took on P-40s with a Ki-27.

 

In some of the arcade dogfighting servers where everyone was flying Doras or Spit mk IX LF 25lb, with a friend we used to fight them with Ki-43s as the only tactic most of those players used was turnfighting so beating them in their uber planes was really funny, specially in our obsolete but beloved "coffee machines"

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Good times

 

In this 1946-setting server (jets and La-7 only) I used to pick the La-7 because everyone went turnfighting. It was hilarious, people would burn all their speed pulling Gs in their 262s and 162s while I comfortably slid in behind them, shot them up and left. Some ragequit, which just added to the experience.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 It was actually quite interesting in Aces High 2 to fly so called lower tier planes as you got a ton more points for kills etc. And if you shot a perked plane down, oh boy that was sweet I do not know about the PE-2 durability in game vs RL. Finnish aces quoted it catching fire very easily when shooting between fuselage and engine. It burned like a torch after a short burst according to the pilots. The self sealing tanks and cooled exhaust gas is good for a few hits, but a burst renders both systems useless. Many pilots had studied the Finnish AF Pe-2's to see how it was easiest to bring down. About durability on fighters they said Yak-series and P-39 were the most easy to catch fire and have structural failures when hit where the LagG-3 and La-5's required a bit more. 

 

 Ilmari Juutilainen used a peculiar tactic in F2A-1 Brewster when shooting down IL-2's. He flew a bit behind and on the side(45deg or so) and kicked rudder firing the 4 x .50cal in from the sides usually killing both gunner and pilot or crippling the engine. When firing from side the rear armor plate offered no cover and sides of the plane were normal skin and easily punctured by the .50cal.  Many reports tell that when in Bf109G the pilots attacked from above and shot the wings resulting it breaking off or into the cockpit between pilot and gunner where there was a fuel tank. Kyösti Karhila who actually flew Bf109G-6 in R6 configuration (20mm gondolas) said the IL-2's disintegrated midair when hit from the salvo. 

 

 How is this related to the underdog planes? Well, many consider that by 1944 the Bf109G2 and G-6 were obsolete against latest Allied plane set.

[Cybermat47]

Ilmari Juutilainen used a peculiar tactic in F2A-1 Brewster when shooting down IL-2's. He flew a bit behind and on the side(45deg or so) and kicked rudder firing the 4 x .50cal in from the sides usually killing both gunner and pilot or crippling the engine. When firing from side the rear armor plate offered no cover and sides of the plane were normal skin and easily punctured by the .50cal.  

 

[J2_Trupobaw]

 Ilmari Juutilainen used a peculiar tactic in F2A-1 Brewster when shooting down IL-2's. He flew a bit behind and on the side(45deg or so) and kicked rudder firing the 4 x .50cal in from the sides usually killing both gunner and pilot or crippling the engine. When firing from side the rear armor plate offered no cover and sides of the plane were normal skin and easily punctured by the .50cal.  

 

 

That's how it works in Rise of Flight for some reason, wood or canvas tail sections somehow absorb bullets before they reach pilot or engine back - sideslipping a little to get pilot and engine from the side is much more effective  . 

[[TWB]80hd]

I'll say that when I read:

 

"-I don't identify with participants. PTO was a separate conflict involving Japanese and Americans (and colonial forces of Europan powers/Commonwealth), that happened to run parallel to WW2, with little impact on other participants other than bringing US into the war on other theatres. It's little less abstract subject than, say, Samoan civil war of 1886. Or football. "

 

It really bothered me... partly from the fact that having served in the USMC, the theatre is of course near and dear to my heart, but part of it just from the standpoint that millions died there too.  I think it's kind of cloddish to dismiss such a massively impactful theatre, and even more so to do it in a flippant manner.

 

That being said, I thought about it for a bit before posting (HA, yeah, I know, freaked me out too) and I sit and think about the number of Westerners who couldn't find Stalingrad on a map, let alone articulate a thoughtful statement about the Eastern Front in general.

 

I knew nothing about WW2 Soviet Aviation until Air Warrior, when I found out that you could haul ass and spam cannon rounds in the "LaLa" (La-7)... Not much changed with Aces High, but then in War Thunder I learned to appreciate the various Soviet aircraft as we were forced to fly them a great majority of the time in FRB early on.  When BoS came out, I wasn't really interested in either plane set, honestly... the 109F-4 has always been my favorite 109, but it's so much a seal clubber in this arena that it didn't have much appeal to me.  Due to the constant Axis majority on US nights, TWB started to fly VVS more and more simply because if we didn't, it'd just be Germans flying around waving at each other.  In doing so, I learned to love the IL-2 1942, and to a much greater degree the much more nimble IL-2 1941... it's one of my favorite WW2 aircraft now.

 

I'm not going to throw a "No True Scotsman" at you, in that i'm not saying that you HAVE to love the PTO... all I will say is that I would definitely recommend that you give it an earnest chance.  If reading is your thing, there are several very good books that talk about the desperation of the early war in the Pacific, the Cactus Air Force, the struggle for Guadalcanal, improvisations such as the "Kenney Cocktail", etc...  some amazing tales of pilots bailing out into jungles and making it back... and not....

 

Just as the war in Europe greatly shaped the world that Europeans live in today, the war in the Pacific greatly shaped the world that the vast majority of people on this planet live in today.  

 

I think Feathered_IV said it best... the nimble rapier vs. the rushing broadsword in as far as aero-idealogies go makes for some very interesting match-ups... adding in fleet actions and carrier operations, I think anyone who gives it a chance will find the PTO quite enjoyable to fly in!

[Gambit21]

I think Feathered_IV said it best... the nimble rapier vs. the rushing broadsword in as far as aero-idealogies go makes for some very interesting match-ups... adding in fleet actions and carrier operations, I think anyone who gives it a chance will find the PTO quite enjoyable to fly in!

 

Yes!

Even more to the point, to the Japanese a fighter was a Katana, to the Allies it was a flying gun platform.

2 totally different philosophies, and there is no match-up quite like it anywhere else in WWII.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Gambit21

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

 

 

to the Japanese a fighter was a Katana

 

Like this one?

 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

When firing from side the rear armor plate offered no cover and sides of the plane were normal skin and easily punctured by the .50cal.

 

The nose and mid fuselage side of the IL-2 were still armored, but against .50cal AP bullets it didn't have that much resistance if hit from a rather perpendicular angle

 

 

 

 

At even 600 meters from a perpendicular angle the .50 cal AP could pierce around 17mm of armor, enough to get through the IL-2's 6 or 7mms from the side.

[Gambit21]

I had to edit my post above Lucas - I had flying "fun" platform lol

[hames123]

Meh, I will fly Axis ground attackers(Stuka and Val, mainly because all the other players seem to care about is their own kill streak, and not the objectives) until they add my national airforce. Then I will fly for the RAF as often as possible. It has nothing to do with hating communist or fascist(though I dislike both), just enjoying being an underdog, and eventually, being patriotic and flying for the RAF.

But I do think that many people will just fly US planes, just like in Rising Storm, where everyone plays US because they have better weapons.

And I still do not understand why so many Americans seem to think that they won World War 2 on their own, and that they saved Britian and the Soviets just stole some of the glory. I really have no idea how they get that misconception.

[andyw248]

Hey!! I always land like that! 

 

Did you read the DD? They'll make you do greasers once 2.04 is there...

[unreasonable]

And I still do not understand why so many Americans seem to think that they won World War 2 on their own, and that they saved Britian and the Soviets just stole some of the glory. I really have no idea how they get that misconception.

 

Hollywood. They tell their story for their audience which will not, in general, watch foreign stuff. I have met educated Yanks who honestly thought that D Day was a purely US operation.

 

To be fair, those that are interested in military history or this kind of CFS will usually be much better informed.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Well, to be fair economically and industrially both Great Britain and Soviet Union benefited a lot from cooperation and aid coming from States. Loans, credits, food, supplies, ammunition, trucks, tanks ... economical capacity of support provided to Soviets and Britain was massive and there is nothing wrong in taking credit for it. Of course its also wrong to forget about other Allies who shared combat experiences. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

MBut I do think that many people will just fly US planes, just like in Rising Storm, where everyone plays US because they have better weapons.

That will be until they realise that the Zero is a formidable fighter and way more manouvrebel than the Wildcat, which is when the forum wars will start to emerge.

 

Seriously though, Japan did have very interesting aircraft that had different strenghs and weaknesses than the US. I'm very much looking forward flying both sides equally and enjoying the wide variety of aircrafts and combat missions they have to offer.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

With more aircraft equipped with .50 cals there might come that old discussion how effective those should be. Oh boy, and those discussions were so emotional sometimes.

I only hope it wont be as bad as in Pacific Fighters where even random hits could cause fire, little effort and one could cook all Ai before it even it noticed what was happening. 

 

 

Even a bad look could cause fire back then.

[Gambit21]

And I still do not understand why so many Americans seem to think that they won World War 2 on their own, and that they saved Britian and the Soviets just stole some of the glory. I really have no idea how they get that misconception.

I don't think that statement applies to most people on this board. As far as the general public goes - it's mainly our poor school system/curriculum. In my high school history class the eastern front wasn't even mentioned. Sure it was a U.S. History class, but when the WWII section rolled around you'd think the EF would be worthy of a mention.

 

Same problem with the media really even now. If I want to know a little something about the world and current events I have to turn on BBC.

[CUJO_1970]

What Japanese fighter will be best to stand up to an F6-F Hellcat?

 

That thing is going to be an absolute beast.

[Gambit21]

What Japanese fighter will be best to stand up to an F6-F Hellcat?

 

That thing is going to be an absolute beast.

A well flown Zeke should put up a good fight still given how most will fly the Hellcat, meaning a healthy dose of overconfidence. Edited October 7, 2016 by Gambit21

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Depends which F6F. The one that saw combat by the end of 1943, during Battle of Philippine Sea and on some aircraft carriers even during Leyte battle was F6F-3. For the most part those were produced with P&W R-2800-10 but some of them were equipped with P&W R-2800-10W which was a massive boost and a kick to Hellcat performance, giving it great combat power that could be used for as long as water injection lasted (though manual nominally gives 10 minutes). F6F-5 introduced somewhere in the mid 1944 took advantage of R-2800-10W as well as spring tabs providing better rate of roll at high speeds (at the expense of low speed roll though). 

 

Early F6F-3 could be fought on relatively equal terms by A6M5 as first has speed advantage (sometimes marginal thought, especially between 6000 to 15,000 feet), has greater protection, firepower, dive characteristics and higher dive speed limit. A6M5 on the other hand has maneuverability, climb rate advantage until around 15,000 feet, good acceleration and vastly superior roll at low speeds. 

For the most part it would be up to initial position each pilot has and his skills. On the other hand F6F-5 pretty much holds everywhere speed and climb advantage taking those last important elements of relative balance. 

 

To combat effectively F6F-5 you would need something like J2M3, N1K2-J, Ki-84 or Ki-44-II. Ki-43-III could hold much better than A6M5 here since I believe it still had rate of climb advantage. 

[Cpt_Cool]

A well flown Zekes should put up a good fight still given how most will fly the Hellcat, meaning a healthy dose of overconfidence.

 

Don't you mean unhealthy? lol

[Gambit21]

Don't you mean unhealthy? lol

Yep! By healthy I just meant "huge"

[Gambit21]

Except Hiro you're talking in theoreticals, assuming the Hellcat is being properly flown. My experience online is that's VERY rare. Most guys will try the knife fight, then they're dead.

 

I can remember 2 occasions where someone kept

their allied aircraft in it's proper envelope and I couldn't touch them. TWICE. One was a Hellcat, the other was a P-38. I lost track of all the Mystangs, Corairs, P-47's and Hellcats I shot down. Yes the Zeke was a bit too fast, yes those other AC were under-modeled. The point though is that when flown properly they still could make gun passes with impunity (I know because when flying a Corsair, that's what I did) - yet most of the time they made poor choices and got down in the weeds. They were Warrant Officer Yamaha Kawasaki's bread and butter.

 

So there's numbers/theory - and there's actual practice. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out this time. The Devs must get the relationships correct though between the aircraft this time. Then I will enjoy flying both sides.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Except Hiro you're talking in theoreticals, assuming the Hellcat is being properly flown. My experience online is that's VERY rare. Most guys will try the knife fight, then they're dead.

I'm talking about theoretical aircraft to aircraft, yes. Rest is up to pilot and it is a variable that shouldnt be taken into account in such comparison. 

[Gambit21]

I'm talking about theoretical aircraft to aircraft, yes. Rest is up to pilot and it is a variable that shouldnt be taken into account in such comparison.

I get it - I'm just pointing out the difference between theory and actual practice - which can be significant.

It will be interesting to fly more a accurately modeled Hellcat/Zeke matchup - looking forward to it.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

What Japanese fighter will be best to stand up to an F6-F Hellcat?

 

That thing is going to be an absolute beast.

 

Hellcat is easy food for a good pilot in a Shiden-Kai. I remember reading a story of a Japanese ace, who was talking/explaining a lot. He told, that when they got the Shiden-Kai, they were absolutely sealclubbing the Hellcat. They went out on small groups, raped Hellcat squads, and went home without losses, quite often. Of course they were the rare Japanese aces who survived that long, and they couldn't make a huge difference in their small numbers. But he explained it like the Hellcats would be some ground attack aircraft..of course this was only his subjective opinion. I forgot his name unfortunately, maybe Hiromachi knows who i am talking from, as well known he is from the Pacific war. 

But i think the Hellcat was rather obsolete in the late war, when up against late war Japanese fighters. Too slow. The Japanese pilot told, that they feared the Corsair and especially the Mustang a lot more.

The time where the Hellcat reigned the oceans will not be represented in Il2, at least as far as the Devs plan goes

Edited October 7, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Well, that is exaggeration. F6F-5 and N1K2-J are close with overall advantage going to latter one, but its not a massive advantage.  

 

Also, they rarely moved in a small groups. It would be suicidal, 343 Ku tried to operate in large groups with as many machines as possible to create at least in the small area a tactical advantage, but that rarely happened. There were just too many American units covering any mission.

 

 

 

The time where the Hellcat reigned the oceans will not be represented in Il2, at least as far as the Devs plan goes

Actually and unfortunately Okinawa is the time of Hellcat great victories scored on Kamikaze and escort fighters. Hellcat in the beginning of 1944 hit the timing perfectly with its mass usage, as it was the time when last veterans were brought into combat and most of the Japanese crews were simply green pilots. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

I can't tell you how many Hellcats I shot down with my trusty Ki-61 in '46.

 

I would much rather face them than any of the US Army planes.

[Gambit21]

Yep - way off base there Manu

[Gambit21]

I can't tell you how many Hellcats I shot down with my trusty Ki-61 in '46.

 

I would much rather face them than any of the US Army planes.

I didn't fly that one much, but was happy in it when I did.

[Dakpilot]

Hellcat is easy food for a good pilot in a Shiden-Kai. I remember reading a story of a Japanese ace, who was talking/explaining a lot. He told, that when they got the Shiden-Kai, they were absolutely sealclubbing the Hellcat. They went out on small groups, raped Hellcat squads, and went home without losses, quite often. Of course they were the rare Japanese aces who survived that long, and they couldn't make a huge difference in their small numbers. But he explained it like the Hellcats would be some ground attack aircraft..of course this was only his subjective opinion. I forgot his name unfortunately, maybe Hiromachi knows who i am talking from, as well known he is from the Pacific war. 

But i think the Hellcat was rather obsolete in the late war, when up against late war Japanese fighters. Too slow. The Japanese pilot told, that they feared the Corsair and especially the Mustang a lot more.

The time where the Hellcat reigned the oceans will not be represented in Il2, at least as far as the Devs plan goes

 

As usual..read one book now opinionated "expert"

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

As usual..read one book now opinionated "expert"

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Oy oy, no need for such words. Everyone can be mistaken. 

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

ell, that is exaggeration. F6F-5 and N1K2-J are close with overall advantage going to latter one, but its not a massive advantage.  

Well but the N1K was better in (almost) everything, climbing, acceleration, speed, turning, firepower. Roll rate i don't know about. But holding all those advantages at once, you can dictate a fight.

 

 

 

Actually and unfortunately Okinawa is the time of Hellcat great victories scored on Kamikaze and escort fighters. Hellcat in the beginning of 1944 hit the timing perfectly with its mass usage, as it was the time when last veterans were brought into combat and most of the Japanese crews were simply green pilots.

I meant in terms of performance. And like you know, Okinawa was mid 1945. At this time Japanese had a lot of fighters types superior to the Hellcat. Ki100, Ki84, N1K. And the US had also way better fighters by that time, Mustang D, Corsair F4U4, late Jugg. That's what i meant with "obsolete".

Of course superior numbers, tactics, etc lead to the US further reigning the air (with F6F), but that's not what i meant

Oy oy, no need for such words. Everyone can be mistaken. 

It's Dakpilot, like we know him 

[Gambit21]

Manu it comes down to theoreticals vs real world again. Coming up with a good design is one thing. You also need to produce it in sufficient numbers, mitigate quality control problems during production, keep them operational in sufficient numbers once in the field, and be able to provide experienced pilots who can properly leverage the advantages of said AC design.

 

Arguably Japan was able to accomplish none of these things after late 1943, certainly not in 1945.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Manu it comes down to theoreticals vs real world again. Coming up with a good design is one thing. You also need to produce it in sufficient numbers, mitigate quality control problems during production, keep them operational in sufficient numbers once in the field, and be able to provide experienced pilots who can properly leverage the advantages of said AC design.

 

Arguably Japan was able to accomplish none of these things after late 1943, certainly not in 1945.

 

Of course i agree 100%. I was rather speaking in Sim terms i think that was Cujo's question. And i think the Hellcat will be rather an underdog against N1k in a flight Sim like BoS

[Dakpilot]

Oy oy, no need for such words. Everyone can be mistaken. 

 

Very true everyone makes mistakes, the important bit is being able to admit them and move on, something i have yet to see

 

Just saying it as it is.

 

Easy food...seal clubbing...raping... such opinionated emotive words

 

Cheers Dakpilot