Battle of Midway and Battle of Okinawa

September 22, 2016

B-26s were withdrawn from the Pacific in 1943.

The B-26 played a minor part in the Battle of Midway. The 18th Reconnaissance Squadron and 69th Bombardment Squadrons, both passing through Hawaii on their way to the South Pacific, both provided two torpedo carrying aircraft (the first time the USAAF used torpedoes in action). The four aircraft took off a dawn on 4 June 1942, and did find the Japanese carriers, but two were shot down before making their attacks and the two torpedoes that were launched missed their targets (both pilots claimed probable hits). One Zero was shot down by a B-26 – the only concrete success achieved by the USAAF during the battle, but the two surviving Marauders were both written off after suffering heavy battle damage. Both pilots were rewarded with the Distinguished Service Cross.

September 22, 2016

Are those people aware of its service record? Do they know how many submarines it sunk? How many times it save the neck spotting Japanese warships?

That some do not want it is expected , but having a quality made catalina in the hangar will for sure bring even more people to this game

It sank ~40 U-boats out of 724 lost or 5.5%.

It will be a hanger queen after the uniqueness wears off. As an AI a/c would be good.

September 22, 2016

Personally I would like to see the Catalina included - I think it would be a versatile performer, and flying boats were done really well in ROF so would be amazing here too.

I'm intrigued about what the proposed Air Marshall/Field Marshall modes may be able to bring to the depiction of the Midway battle. Managing a battle with realistic limited info and 'fog of war' would seem to be a feature tailor-made for Midway.

It was talked about in Jason's recent Teamspeak session. From Shamrockonefive's blog summary at https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/09/10/qa-with-jason-williams-summary/

Someone acting like a central HQ or Ground Control
Similar to command features found in ARMA
Will be able to direct people via comms/messages to organized squads or individuals
Will be able to relay information on enemy forces in grids (i.e. enemy fighters spotted in a grid or ground forces moving into a town)
Will be a special screen for multiplayer with one (or two) player on each team, possibly with ground and air control
Fog of war will be important here
- Info restriction makes things interesting
- Makes recon flights very important
- Also ground recon
Will be optional for MP servers and will hopefully become more complex over time
Feature is planned for Battle of Kuban
Naval ship control is unlikely

Implemented well it could lead to a very realistic depiction of Midway and give a strong role for the Catalina. But I'm a little confused as to how the game play would work out - in a realistic depiction the initial stages will be reduced to a co-ordinated search effort- or a game of 'cat and mouse'. The online gameplay would be different from anything seen so far - in fact Midway poses challenges across the board for online play.

Is it possible to include a strategic component like this in an online server? The particular features of the Midway battle almost demand it. Done well it could feel like an elaborate chess game with a lot of replay potential, but how will it accommodate the casual online player who wants a burst of quick instant action? Presumably there will also have to be a role for instant action dogfight servers with opposing carrier groups within visible range.

Edited September 22, 2016 by kendo

September 22, 2016

but how will it accommodate the casual online player who wants a burst of quick instant action? Presumably there will also have to be a role for instant action dogfight servers with opposing carrier groups within visible range.

There will probably be dogfight servers like Berloga or WoL and more complex ones like TAW. just like we have now

September 22, 2016

It will be a hanger queen after the uniqueness wears off. As an AI a/c would be good.

What would you propose than ? Since B-26 as you said played minor role in Midway, PBY is going to be a hangar queen then my assumption is that only thing left is B-17. Which is a no go as was said couple of times before.

From this three present that day of June, PBY sounds most interesting and relevant.

September 22, 2016

The "hanger queen" stuff is BS anyway.

I'll certainl fly it,

September 22, 2016

Agree on the Caty being important and I'm pretty sure it will be part of the Midway expansion. Not only because it's the most reasonable aircraft to fill the bomber slot (B-17 is not viable for obvious reasons) but also because it is sth special.

USN:

- F4F Wildcat

- F2A Buffalo

- Catalina

- Dauntless

~~- Avenger~~

~~- B26~~

- Devastator

~~- B17~~

- Vindicator as Collector plane

IJN

- A6M2 Zero

- B5N2 Kate

- D3A1 Val

- E8N Dave

- D4A1-C Suisei

Pretty close to what I imagined the planeset to look like, some things to note though. The Suiseis attached to the carrier fleet were 2 prototypes retrofitted as pure reconissence aircraft of which only 1 did participate in the battle and eventually crashed (based on Wiki). I looked it up because at first I thought it would fit perfectly as a collectors plane (and also because I really like the design) but for mentioned reason it might actually be very questionabel if not wrong to add it as a Japanese dive bomber into Midway.

The US fleet only operated 6 TBF-1c Avengers by the time and from what I've read they didn't acchieve many records so this one drops out of the list for me, too.

My own proposal would be:

US Navy/Marines IJN/IJA

F2A-3 Buffalo A6M-2N Rufe?

F4F-4 Wildcat A6M2 Type 21

TBD-1 Devastator or SBD-3 Dauntless D3A-1 Val

PBY-5 Catalina G4M Betty

Collector: SB2U Vindicator or TBD-1 Devestator D4Y-13-Shi prototype?

Still unsure about the Japanese Collector's plane. The B5N is a too war relevant type to be put in nd could be used in a later pacific expansion as a standard aircraft together with the TBF Avenger.

Edited September 22, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

September 22, 2016

US Navy/Marines IJN/IJA

F2A-3 Buffalo A6M2 Type 21

F4F-4 Wildcat D3A1 Val

TBD-1 Devestator B5N2 Kate

SBD-3 Dauntless G4M1 Betty

Collector: PBY-5 Catalina D4Y1-13-Shi

Rufe wasnt operational at given time yet and I dont see the need to press for the second fighter anyway. Arguable is A5M4 but it was so obsolete that even Sakai ridiculed of it when saw those in Rabaul in early 1942, Claude was onyl assigned to new pilots and only because there werent enough Zeros to give them to everyone. Judy is necessary for two reasons : - Japanese have no radar so there should be some compensation in form of fast reconnaissance

- Judy can carry greater ordnance than D3A1

September 22, 2016

What would you propose than ? Since B-26 as you said played minor role in Midway, PBY is going to be a hangar queen then my assumption is that only thing left is B-17. Which is a no go as was said couple of times before.

From this three present that day of June, PBY sounds most interesting and relevant.

I would propose that the Air Marshall role be airborne. That the radioman position in a Catalina or H4K Mavis would be a perfect place to play air marshall while the reast of the crew operated the aircraft itself and the guns. Would give the enemy a unique objective to keep suppressed, and the Cat would have to be in a certain area to receive the highest fidelity intel for the Air Marshal. And you'd want your best Catalina pilots on the job. Clouds would be very important too...

September 22, 2016

Still prefer the F4F-3 for reasons stated prior but I like your list very much Hiro

September 22, 2016

The "hanger queen" stuff is BS anyway.

I'll certainl fly it,

So you would get up in the morning and fly for hours with nothing but ocean to look at til you landed after dark. If you somehow you did come into contact with an enemy aircraft, almost 100% you would be shot down.

Dad did some flying in Cansos (CC) looking for U-boats and said it was the most boring flying he ever did.

I did say as an AI a/c.

September 22, 2016

The game should not only cater for the fighter lovers... there are lovers of bombers, and there are also lovers of recce aircraft.

Some people get excitement from shooting things down.

Others like blowing things up.

A recce element will also be needed with the new command mode Jason said was coming.

It may be boring to some, but others relish that kind of flying, and enjoy the challenge of playing cat and mouse up there, trying to locate the enemy and not getting shot down in the process...

September 22, 2016

Gonna need a key binding for binoculars so those guys in the waist bubbles don't get eye strain!

;) ;)

Edited September 22, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

September 22, 2016

So you would get up in the morning and fly for hours with nothing but ocean to look at til you landed after dark. If you somehow you did come into contact with an enemy aircraft, almost 100% you would be shot down.

Yes.

As mentioned before (reference), give me a long-range seaplane and I will fly recon with it. Fuel and server-mission-duration would be the limiting factors. Not patience.

September 22, 2016

The game should not only cater for the fighter lovers... there are lovers of bombers, and there are also lovers of recce aircraft.

Some people get excitement from shooting things down.

Others like blowing things up.

A recce element will also be needed with the new command mode Jason said was coming.

It may be boring to some, but others relish that kind of flying, and enjoy the challenge of playing cat and mouse up there, trying to locate the enemy and not getting shot down in the process...

^100% agree.

September 22, 2016

So you would get up in the morning and fly for hours with nothing but ocean to look at til you landed after dark. If you somehow you did come into contact with an enemy aircraft, almost 100% you would be shot down.

Dad did some flying in Cansos (CC) looking for U-boats and said it was the most boring flying he ever did.

I did say as an AI a/c.

is the litmus test now what we would like to do in real life in the most realistic way possible? Is that how it works now with our flight sims? In my long experience, not so much.

If so then I guess I don't want to fly the Zeke either, because I don't have to time to fly for six or eight hours at a time patrolling or escorting Betties, and I CERTAINLY don't want to chance going down in a burning wreck and ending up as an oil spot on the Pacific.

But yeah, I'll fly recon happily.

There's a plenty of gameplay possibilities for the PBY, including search and rescue - good stuff.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Gambit21

September 23, 2016

is the litmus test now what we would like to do in real life in the most realistic way possible? Is that how it works now with our flight sims? In my long experience, not so much.

If so then I guess I don't want to fly the Zeke either, because I don't have to time to fly for six or eight hours at a time patrolling or escorting Betties, and I CERTAINLY don't want to chance going down in a burning wreck and ending up as an oil spot on the Pacific.

But yeah, I'll fly recon happily.

There's a plenty of gameplay possibilities for the PBY, including search and rescue - good stuff.

I hope future instalments of the game will give points for successfully completing a recon or rescue mission.

September 23, 2016

I'm hoping they do the battle of the coral sea then move to midway. Not sure how they are going to package this.

It was interesting to note that he was a producer on IL-2 Birds of Prey, curious if he was involved with Birds of Steel

I always loved this game, and I even have the war thunder version dlc campaign (same thing basically) lol. Still one of the best ww2 naval air combat experiences I've had.

September 23, 2016

The game should not only cater for the fighter lovers... there are lovers of bombers, and there are also lovers of recce aircraft.

Some people get excitement from shooting things down.

Others like blowing things up.

A recce element will also be needed with the new command mode Jason said was coming.

It may be boring to some, but others relish that kind of flying, and enjoy the challenge of playing cat and mouse up there, trying to locate the enemy and not getting shot down in the process...

Good point and I stand corrected. But As I said, I adore the Cat and I would love to see her AND fly her. I just want the title to be as appealing as possible - and to see as many relevant planes IN USE as possible. I would hate that a plane which the team spent a great amount of time making, just ends up not in use. Can this time be spent on other things? Well that is up for Jason et al to decide.

September 23, 2016

US Navy/Marines IJN/IJA

F2A-3 Buffalo A6M2 Type 21

F4F-4 Wildcat D3A1 Val

TBD-1 Devestator B5N2 Kate

SBD-3 Dauntless G4M1 Betty

Collector: PBY-5 Catalina D4Y1-13-Shi

Rufe wasnt operational at given time yet and I dont see the need to press for the second fighter anyway. Arguable is A5M4 but it was so obsolete that even Sakai ridiculed of it when saw those in Rabaul in early 1942, Claude was onyl assigned to new pilots and only because there werent enough Zeros to give them to everyone. Judy is necessary for two reasons : - Japanese have no radar so there should be some compensation in form of fast reconnaissance

- Judy can carry greater ordnance than D3A1

Plus + 1 for me. Never was a pacific fan even though I had MS CFS2 right at the start. But sold now on Midway + + New Guinea. I think this will also be a huge hit with the younger fans. My son on Il2 1946 loves Pacific I see him flying there all the time. I think it is closer to them because of movies like Pearl Harbour.

September 23, 2016

Also, the Catalina would be vital to the Anti-Submarine missions we need to fly round the carriers and prevent the Subs from sinking them.

September 23, 2016

Agree on the Caty being important and I'm pretty sure it will be part of the Midway expansion. Not only because it's the most reasonable aircraft to fill the bomber slot (B-17 is not viable for obvious reasons) but also because it is sth special.

Pretty close to what I imagined the planeset to look like, some things to note though. The Suiseis attached to the carrier fleet were 2 prototypes retrofitted as pure reconissence aircraft of which only 1 did participate in the battle and eventually crashed (based on Wiki). I looked it up because at first I thought it would fit perfectly as a collectors plane (and also because I really like the design) but for mentioned reason it might actually be very questionabel if not wrong to add it as a Japanese dive bomber into Midway.

The US fleet only operated 6 TBF-1c Avengers by the time and from what I've read they didn't acchieve many records so this one drops out of the list for me, too.

My own proposal would be:

                   US Navy/Marines                      IJN/IJA

   F2A-3 Buffalo                        A6M-2N Rufe?

F4F-4 Wildcat                      A6M2 Type 21

TBD-1 Devastator or SBD-3 Dauntless          D3A-1 Val

                   PBY-5 Catalina                                           G4M Betty

Collector: SB2U Vindicator or TBD-1 Devestator        D4Y-13-Shi prototype?

Still unsure about the Japanese Collector's plane. The B5N is a too war relevant type to be put in nd could be used in a later pacific expansion as a standard aircraft together with the TBF Avenger.

I don't know what this means, but it is wrong. There is NO way the B5N Kate should be left out of any Midway release. Sorry.

The Rufe is a central type in the SW Pacific, but had no role at Midway, and as someone already mentioned the D4Y prototypes, while cool were a non-factor as well. PBYs and H4K Mavis were more important to the battle than these types.

While we're at it, I'll throw this out: No Midway title would be complete without the following aircraft as an absolute minimum

F4F-4 A6M2-21

SBD-3 D3A Val

TBD Devastator B5N2 Kate

After these 6 planes, everything else is on the table. Now if you want to talk Battle of Gudalcanal? Battle of New Guinea '42? That's a different story.

September 23, 2016

Yep - we need, NEED the Rufe for later when we have an island map to work with, we don't need it for Midway.

Good news like I said before is that model-wise it's just an A6M2 with pontoons - easy peasy after the base Zeke is done, and I say that as a 3D aircraft modeler.

And yes, we definitely need the Kate for Midway

September 25, 2016

Each side should get: 2 fighters, 1 modern and 1 older type, a torpedo bomber and a dive bomber. The special planes could be a G4M Betty and a Catalina. Also, the devs should make it so that the your score is multiplied by 50% if you fly the older model fighter or the torpedo bomber(As we need an incentive to fly these types or we will never see them in Multiplayer).

September 25, 2016

Each side should get: 2 fighters, 1 modern and 1 older type, a torpedo bomber and a dive bomber. The special planes could be a G4M Betty and a Catalina. Also, the devs should make it so that the your score is multiplied by 50% if you fly the older model fighter or the torpedo bomber(As we need an incentive to fly these types or we will never see them in Multiplayer).

I myself will have no problem flying torpedo bombers as do they not double as level bombers/glide bombers? Was it not Kate's that level bombed the Arizona? I think they will be multi-purpose planes both against ships and land.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Beedo

September 25, 2016

It sank ~40 U-boats out of 724 lost or 5.5%.

And how many did it force underwater, causing them to lose contact with their targets?

The Catalina's goal was to protect convoys, not to hunt U-boats. And it protected the convoys brilliantly.

September 25, 2016

Also, remember that at Midway, the Japanese had a screen of subs looking for the US carriers.

September 25, 2016

And how many did it force underwater, causing them to lose contact with their targets?

The Catalina's goal was to protect convoys, not to hunt U-boats. And it protected the convoys brilliantly.

Maybe there should be blimps as they to did great anti sub work.

September 25, 2016

I don't know what this means, but it is wrong. There is NO way the B5N Kate should be left out of any Midway release. Sorry.

The Rufe is a central type in the SW Pacific, but had no role at Midway, and as someone already mentioned the D4Y prototypes, while cool were a non-factor as well. PBYs and H4K Mavis were more important to the battle than these types.

While we're at it, I'll throw this out: No Midway title would be complete without the following aircraft as an absolute minimum

F4F-4 A6M2-21

SBD-3 D3A Val

TBD Devastator B5N2 Kate

After these 6 planes, everything else is on the table. Now if you want to talk Battle of Gudalcanal? Battle of New Guinea '42? That's a different story.

This is really the must to have planeset release for Midway, agree, but you need also Catalina. No Catalina? No Midway!

F4F-4 A6M2-21

SBD-3 D3A Val

TBD Devastator B5N2 Kate

Catalina

Edited September 25, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

September 25, 2016

This is really the must to have planeset release for Midway, agree, but you need also Catalina. No Catalina? No Midway!

F4F-4 A6M2-21

SBD-3 D3A Val

TBD Devastator B5N2 Kate

Catalina

I agree with the Catalina. But I have often thought that the Cat and the Mavis could come to us as a separate release. Call it a "flying boat add on" or "Eyes of the Fleet expansion pack" or something. I just worry that the majority of people aren't interested in having them as part of the plane set as there are those who don't want to fly unarmed recon.

In any case, while I think they ARE important, there might be better choices that help flesh out another land based campaign like New Guinea '42 or Guadalcanal. So, P-39D, P-40, B-26, G4M2, etc.

September 25, 2016

How about this

US: F2A Brewster, F4F Wildcat, TBD Torpedo Bomber, SBD Dive Bomber, Collector Plane is a Catalina.

Japan: A6M Zeke, A5M Claude, Achi Val, B5N2 Kate and Collector Plane is a G4M Betty.

September 25, 2016

Maybe there should be blimps as they to did great anti sub work.

If there were blimps performing ASW tasks at Midway, sure.

September 25, 2016

I agree with the Catalina. But I have often thought that the Cat and the Mavis could come to us as a separate release. Call it a "flying boat add on" or "Eyes of the Fleet expansion pack" or something. I just worry that the majority of people aren't interested in having them as part of the plane set as there are those who don't want to fly unarmed recon.

In any case, while I think they ARE important, there might be better choices that help flesh out another land based campaign like New Guinea '42 or Guadalcanal. So, P-39D, P-40, B-26, G4M2, etc.

Float planes are especially important for Guadalcanal/Solomons actually.

September 25, 2016

Remember that the developers have already done complex seaplanes in RoF, and will have a good idea if the sales and usage in Career or MP justified the expense of developing a flyable model.

Personally, I would like to see more AI only planes to fill out the OB. They make SP much more interesting and I would think are much cheaper to develop than flyable versions, especially if the requirement to make every single AI plane fly using a full human FM is ditched, as it probably should be.

Catalinas and similar would be perfect for this treatment IMHO. My guess is that only a tiny number of die-hards are going to fly many hours staring at the sea.

What would make for an interesting though long mission in a multi-engine plane in the PTO, however, would be a B-29, say for the 509th Composite Group....

September 25, 2016

2 fighters, 1 modern and 1 older type, a torpedo bomber and a dive bomber.

Japan: A6M Zeke, A5M Claude, Achi Val, B5N2 Kate and Collector Plane is a G4M Betty.

Why there have to be two fighters ? In particular for Japanese Navy that would be a wasted slot and wasted resources on an aircraft from mid 1930s which unlike I-16, you cannot equip with any cannon to give a chance to hunt anything. You also dont have speed, you dont have dive speed (due to fixed landing gear you cant go any faster than those dive bombers), you have a fixed scope sight ...

A5M was a very good machine for the time it was launched, but by 1940 it became obsolete and in 1942 was only used on secondary aircraft carriers for secondary tasks.

September 25, 2016

What would make for an interesting though long mission in a multi-engine plane in the PTO, however, would be a B-29, say for the 509th Composite Group....

"Is this a can of petrol which I see before me,

The handle toward my hand? Come, let me clutch thee."

September 25, 2016

Well it is a rainy Sunday afternoon, Crump is banned, Bearfoot has pretended to take the high moral ground and does not want to play, the 190 debate is disappearing up it's own CLmax, and everyone is being nice to the developers.....

someone has to maintain standards.

September 25, 2016

Has Crump been banned? Oh dear. Perhaps its for the best. After all, those Greyhounds don't drive themselves do they?

September 25, 2016

CloD thread. Fear not..... he'll be back.

September 25, 2016

his widens the appeal and makes the sim more attractive to a wider audience.

Yes it would, a seaplane with believable FM will bring in people that enjoy long flights and navigation. Like DCS and its fantastic Helicopters, now make people migrating from X plane

Battle of Midway and Battle of Okinawa

Recommended Posts

MiloMorai

MiloMorai

kendo

SAG

=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

Gambit21

6./ZG26_5tuka

=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

TheElf

II/JG17_HerrMurf

MiloMorai

Trooper117

II/JG17_HerrMurf

xvii-Dietrich

Legioneod

Gambit21

=CFC=Conky

Daff

SvAF/F19_Klunk

Luger1969

hames123

TheElf

Gambit21

hames123

Plurp

Cybermat47

hames123

MiloMorai

150GCT_Veltro

TheElf

hames123

Cybermat47

Gambit21

unreasonable

=362nd_FS=Hiromachi

DD_Arthur

unreasonable

DD_Arthur

unreasonable

Lusekofte

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Browse All

Activity